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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 6/12/2002 7:43:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 5:32:45 PM EDT by gunner75]
I'm looking to purchase a new AR rifle in the near future. I'm looking for a (service rifle with a heavy barrel) these are a couple I have been looking at. What are the pro's and Con's to these rifles. PRICES/Parts Breakage/Durablity/ETC.
Armalite--M15A2
Panther Arms-- Panther Classic
Olympic Arms--PCR-4 SS heavy barrel
Bushmaster--XM15E2S
Rock River Arms--Standard A2
Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:56:37 PM EDT
Gunner, are you looking for a rifle to compete in NRA Highpower Rifle, Service Rifle division? If so, you're in the wrong forum. Join us HP shooters in the Competition forum. See ya there!
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:58:46 PM EDT
Armalite, Bushmaster and Rock River are all good. Rock River is probably the best value. I don't know much about the others. Why do you want a heavy barrel? Are you shooting competition? If not, heavy barrels suck, avoid them unless you have a specific need.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 5:18:29 AM EDT
All of the major AR builders offer an CMP Service Rifle model of some kind or another. You'd be hard pressed to find much real difference between them. This typical turns into a Ford vs Chevy arguement. In my immediate shooting group there are Bushmasters, Colts, RRA, DPMS, and Oly. I haven't noticed any material differences between them. The guns all shoot better than we do. Parts breakage is a non issue. Shop around. Find one you like at at a price you like and buy. Hard to go wrong if you stick with the major five or six vendors.

FWIW, Bushmaster is the best seller. Armalite typically the nicest looking but most expensive. RRA is quickly gaining a very good reputation. My personal rifle is an Oly, works just great.

Link Posted: 6/13/2002 5:25:58 AM EDT
I would get the ArmaLite M15 but the M15A4 - not the M15A2.
Today, there are so many fine mount and scope options available for flattops that I won't limit myself to a carry-handle mount.

Actually I took my own advice and bought the M15A4 !!
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 5:47:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2002 5:48:19 AM EDT by Frontsight-]
"You'd be hard pressed to find much real difference between them. "

Wrong. Several manufacturers have produced shoddy products, or have prices that do not match the quality of their work. In addition, almost every manufacturer has at least one if not several parts that have a record for failing under match use. We Highpower shooters know which parts work best and which are worst. The best solution is to have a place like White Oak Precision or CLE to build the rifle. The cost is not much more, and you are assured a correctly functioning rifle. Every rifle discussed in the Competition forum that's had problems in HP has been a factory rifle. I can think of one company that has a reputation for going on the line as-is and only needing $25 in trigger work. Beyond that, everyone has complaints about every factory "CMP" AR out there.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 8:19:38 AM EDT
Yes, the custom shops can and do build a better product. But the cost is much higher, at least by my check book standards. Comparing CLE and the others to the factory CMP rifles is apples and oranges. I still say among the factory rifles the differences are minimal. You will find as much variation within a single brand as among the several different brands. All build a good product and all have put out the occasional dud.

Question is just how much money does one want to spend to play this game. More money, better equipment. Better equipment equals missing the car payment. Oops.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 8:48:42 AM EDT
There are several builders that do not have thier heads in the clouds. One is John Holliger (White Oak Precision) who can build a Rock River parts upper for someone for a nominal cost. The upper, when completed, will work perfectly...he puts several nice touches on it as well that make it worth the extra $100 over the standard price of the upper purchased elsewhere.

In many people's opinion, the RRA float tube is the best. MANY of the other tubes have broken or bent...no matter what upper you build or buy, try to get the RRA tube in it, as it is very strong.

Triggers are another issue. Most of the factory lowers don't come with triggers that will remain acceptable for mroe than a year's worth of use due toengineering mistakes or cost saving steps. Invariably the triggers will need to be replaced with a much more expensive upgrade. why not start with a trigger that will last and not pay the extra amount for the so-called "NM" trigger that most factories put out these days? Specifically, the RRA "NM" is one of the more usable triggers on the market. It can be made excellent with $25 and some time on it by John Holliger. Having a good and honest smith like him build the rifle is the easiest way to get a reliable, accurate, and long lasting competition tool for the best price. Spend a little more now, and be thankful for a very long time.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 9:07:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
I would get the ArmaLite M15 but the M15A4 - not the M15A2.
Today, there are so many fine mount and scope options available for flattops that I won't limit myself to a carry-handle mount.

Actually I took my own advice and bought the M15A4 !!




I don't beleive flattops are legal yet for service rifle.


Anyone confirm????
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 9:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
I would get the ArmaLite M15 but the M15A4 - not the M15A2.
Today, there are so many fine mount and scope options available for flattops that I won't limit myself to a carry-handle mount.

Actually I took my own advice and bought the M15A4 !!




I don't beleive flattops are legal yet for service rifle.


Anyone confirm????



I'm also interested in the answer to this.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 10:50:54 AM EDT
The flat top is not legal for Service Rifle division, and there are no discussions about it with the rules committees of either the CMP or the NRA. It came up last year and the decision was made to not allow them. Allowing the flat tome in SR would be a good things for the sport, getting in some folks (like those who have posted here) who otherwise wouldn't have the equipment to compete. Flat tops are legal in Match Rifle category, though.

Know this, most detachable carry handles do not have the elevation required to go all the way to 600 yards without moving the front sight. Finding a rear sight that would do that would help a lot.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 3:59:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2002 4:01:23 PM EDT by gus]
I'm slowly getting into high power also, and am taking the semi-custom route. I'm having Lew Tippie build me an upper (my BRC door prize will help keep costs manageable!), and I'll use a RRA lower that I already had, with probably an RRA NM trigger. Since I got the new stripped lower on the cheap and have plenty of small parts to assemble it, for the price of the upper and a trigger I should be in good shape as far as the rifle goes. I should be able to do it for about $900 out of pocket. Then there's slings, a coat, spotting scope, etc., which add to the cost of competing...
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