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Posted: 5/27/2002 8:23:33 AM EDT
I am looking to buy a new .45 and have just about narrowed it down to the Colt XSE or another Colt 1991. What do you think is the best? Not interested in HK and the Glock stuff since I already own.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:27:47 AM EDT
My Sig Sauer P220 is probably the most accurate .45 I've ever shot. If you don't have one, you might look into getting one.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:28:11 AM EDT
I've had good results with the Kimber Classic Custom. About $650.

It's plain vanilla, but accurate and reliable with all types of ammo.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:33:07 AM EDT
Lately the Springfields have been really good.

They are about the same price, many times less, than the Kimbers and have had more "bells and whistles" than the Kimbers lately.

I think this is because of recent changes made at Springfield.

The fit and finish has even been as good as Kimbers. I recently was looking at both and the SA Trophy Match i've been eyeing was much nicer overall.

MHO
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:41:08 AM EDT
I've wanted a Kimber for a long time, but SA is nothing to sneeze at either. I like about all the 1911 types, but the Sig is a sweet handling gun. Dammit, now I dont know which to get next.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:56:35 AM EDT
My vote also goes to the Sig. I have tried most of the combat pistols made and I wouldn't give my Sig for any of them. Accurate, reliable, great feeling trigger pull and fits the hand like a glove. You won't be disappointed with one.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 9:19:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 9:37:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2002 9:37:51 AM EDT by ura_baddog]
I 2nd the Sig P220.

Ive had at one time or another most major brands of 45 cal. and traded or sold them.
The P220 seems to be the one that's always left out of every trade or sale.
It could be because its my carry piece.
Looking at the SIG compact for the next purchase.
The P220 not easly to wear daily with street clothes.
Not the best for IPSIC or IDPA.
If you shoot the HK well you should be good to go

Link Posted: 5/27/2002 9:58:04 AM EDT
IMHO, either the Kimber Classic Stainless or the Springfield stainless Loaded are better buys than the Colt. The Colt XSE is a nice gun, but it is overpriced.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 10:13:50 AM EDT
Systema Colt. Argentine colt clone.
$250.
Buy 3.
Lebrew

Link Posted: 5/27/2002 10:27:55 AM EDT
Lots of people here like the Springfield Armory 1911 Mil-spec. I think you can get one for under 600 dollars. If I had money right now I would definitely buy it.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 10:34:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
IMHO, either the Kimber Classic Stainless or the Springfield stainless Loaded are better buys than the Colt. The Colt XSE is a nice gun, but it is overpriced.



I agree. I was down to these two and went with the Kimber Classic Stainless. It just felt better in my hand, but wouldn't drop the Springfield if someone threw one at me!

My Kimber has been utterly reliable with everything I've put through it with 15 mags from all kinds of different manufacturers. Very accurate right out of the box.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 11:19:29 AM EDT
I can't believe it!! No one mentions GLOCK??

I have Glock 30. it is small, sexy and very accurate. It is inexpensive (about $550).

Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:25:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wengv:
I can't believe it!! No one mentions GLOCK??

I have Glock 30. it is small, sexy and very accurate. It is inexpensive (about $550).






wengv - you might consider re-reading his post, he already has one of this nature and is not interested.

Kimber is a great value in the Classic Custom series - much more $ beyond this ya gotta ask why.

I have a classic target - I'm damm happy.

I have heard good things about SA loadeds as well.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:36:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wengv:
I can't believe it!! No one mentions GLOCK??

I have Glock 30. it is small, sexy and very accurate. It is inexpensive (about $550).




Plus, you can throw it in the dishwasher when it gets dirty.

I'm gonna throw another vote in for Kimber. But, like others here, I've got nothing against Springfield, especially since they started to "melt" the edges a little more than they used to.

Have fun!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:43:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:45:49 PM EDT
I love my plain 'ole Kimber Classic.No bells,no whistles.Just a good accurate shooter right outta the box.Did put three dot sights on it though.Bought it new from a friend for $450.What a steal!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:09:14 PM EDT
'IF' you're willing to consider LNIB, the Springfield Armory "V10 Super Tuned Ultra Compact Ported" comes in at roughly $750.00 - mighty nice prospect for a carry gun.

(I have a Sig P220 but in .38 Super not .45. Very nice and accurate pistol but I do not like the trigger.)
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:18:32 PM EDT
I my self am for a .45 in the $800 also Kinda looking into a Springfield my self.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:22:31 PM EDT
I'll 3rd the Sig P220.
Feel, reliability, and accuracy are 2nd to none (except a really good 1911 of course).
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:47:32 PM EDT
Colt xse dealer cost is $675, I beleive.
GG
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 9:01:12 PM EDT
Everyone needs a 1911A1 of one flavor or another. Nothing wrong with the design and everything to change. Every gunsmith knows how to tweak and peak them and parts are just that common.

I went with a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec model a few years ago and have been very happy with it. At the time Kimber was having some growing pains and had some bad pistols on the shelves.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:59:06 PM EDT
I have a Springfield PX9109L, but I think the Kimber Classic Stainless is still a good buy like everyone else said.

Springfield has a new model, the "Loaded" Operator that is gaining interest on other forums. The model number is PX9105L. They appear to be getting it together over at Springfield and their customer service is very good (in my experience).

The reason I went for Springfield is for the same reason Paul did. Kimber has been having growing pains and they were letting things out the door that had no place getting past QA. And their customer service was getting behind, so I decided to go with the Springfield for now. And, I may add, it's not a second rate piece by any means.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 12:45:58 AM EDT
USP45

Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:25:07 AM EDT
Here's my opinion:

1) If you can get a RRA 1911 for under $800, jump all over it!

2) Springfield loaded 1911 either blued or stainless

3) Colt if it's blued (and not that crappy Parkerized or crappy Stainless their new 1991's have on them)

4) Kimber as a last resort
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 11:10:23 AM EDT
I currently have a Kimber Classic Custom, Kimber ProCarry Compact, and a Glock 21. I won't sell the Glock just because I said I would never get rid of another gun, but it is way too big for CCW.

Concerning the two Kimber pistols, my Classic shoots very well with all factory 200 and 230grain loads I've put through it. The Compact actually shoots the Federal Expanding FMJ 200grain load at less than 2" at 25yds, which I am very happy with.

I don't have a P220, but my P226 is unbelievably accurate for a combat pistol.

I highly recommend any Kimber or Sig.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 11:31:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Here's my opinion:

1) If you can get a RRA 1911 for under $800, jump all over it!

2) Springfield loaded 1911 either blued or stainless

3) Colt if it's blued (and not that crappy Parkerized or crappy Stainless their new 1991's have on them)

4) Kimber as a last resort



Kimber as a last resort?!?

Well, let's sum it up now:

You could buy a new Springfield and have that ultra-nifty "Integral Locking System", where you can stick a key in the mainspring housing and have a functional pistol.

You could buy a Colt, blued, series 80, and have a firing pin safety that operates off of the trigger. Nothing like a trigger that breaks like a fresh piece of Wonder bread.

If you can find a RRA for $800, I agree, inspect it and buy it if it's in good condition.

Or, save the hassle and buy a Kimber.

Sorry Tailgate, just bustin' on ya a little. Why would you consider Kimber as a last resort?
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 12:04:17 PM EDT
Nobody mentions Para Ordnance. High cap .45's. I have a P-16 LTD .40 which set me back about $700 with two high caps new. I love it. It's my first 1911, and shoots as good as a lot of my friends' Kimbers and Springfields. Hmmmph.



toast
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 1:29:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Here's my opinion:

1) If you can get a RRA 1911 for under $800, jump all over it!

2) Springfield loaded 1911 either blued or stainless

3) Colt if it's blued (and not that crappy Parkerized or crappy Stainless their new 1991's have on them)

4) Kimber as a last resort



Kimber as a last resort?!?

Well, let's sum it up now:

You could buy a new Springfield and have that ultra-nifty "Integral Locking System", where you can stick a key in the mainspring housing and have a functional pistol.

You could buy a Colt, blued, series 80, and have a firing pin safety that operates off of the trigger. Nothing like a trigger that breaks like a fresh piece of Wonder bread.

If you can find a RRA for $800, I agree, inspect it and buy it if it's in good condition.

Or, save the hassle and buy a Kimber.

Sorry Tailgate, just bustin' on ya a little. Why would you consider Kimber as a last resort?



First of all, I would never suggest any weapon that needs a "key"...didn't realize SA has succumbed to that....

As for Kimber, they are great paper punchers. BUT...you will never hear of our US Special Forces, FBI's HRT, or any "hard-core" professional SWAT team using Kimbers. Ask any of the American Pistolsmith's Guild what THEY think of Kimber's quality...you'll get a very nasty litany.

I guess I should have mentioned that if you are buying a new Colt, you should replace some of the parts with the money you saved (off of the $800 budget). A good action job from an APG member for $100 will do wonders.

Don't fall pray to the almighty marketing campaign that Kimber is constantly waging.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 7:14:08 PM EDT
I believe ILS is still just an option and not standard, but could be wrong. The old Kimbers were better in my opinion. The newer pistols have a "passive" firing pin safety that is eerily like the series 80 firing pin safety that Colt inflicted on us. Supposedly it doesn't interrupt the trigger pull and is entirely autonomous, but anything that prevents the gun from firing unless the trigger is pulled would need to be in the trigger assembly somewhere. Anyway, Kimber is still the best buy. A used Springfield is a very good option too.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgate:

First of all, I would never suggest any weapon that needs a "key"...didn't realize SA has succumbed to that....

As for Kimber, they are great paper punchers. BUT...you will never hear of our US Special Forces, FBI's HRT, or any "hard-core" professional SWAT team using Kimbers. Ask any of the American Pistolsmith's Guild what THEY think of Kimber's quality...you'll get a very nasty litany.

I guess I should have mentioned that if you are buying a new Colt, you should replace some of the parts with the money you saved (off of the $800 budget). A good action job from an APG member for $100 will do wonders.

Don't fall pray to the almighty marketing campaign that Kimber is constantly waging.



From the Springfield website:


At Springfield we are continuously seeking ways to make our products safer for you and your family. Beginning in February 2001, Springfield will supply our revolutionary patent pending Integral Locking System (I.L.S.) on every model pistol free of charge


Now granted, it's easy enough to change mainspring housings and be rid of this "feature", but I'm pretty disappointed that they decided to pander to the "guns are unsafe" crowd. Why market a potentially dangerous product to the lowest common denominator of society? I like their pistols, but I've lost some respect for the company because of this decision.

Yes, Kimbers are great paper punchers. Quite accurate, too. And since I likely don't have the same requirements from my pistols as Special Forces and the other groups you mentioned, my Kimber Classic (series 1) is just fine with me. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger. And when I get a CCW permit, I won't feel at all uneasy about carrying it.

Since Larry Vickers is the only member of the APG that I've ever corresponded with, I do know that he has issues with Kimber. That's fine, and I definitely respect Larry's opinion. But I seriously doubt that I use my Kimber at the same level that Larry and his colleagues demand of their duty pistols, if you get my meaning. I also don't have a few thousand dollars to spend for one of Larry's pistols. I wish I did, but I don't.

A lot of people have complained about Kimber's use of MIM parts, but I haven't seen any problems with those parts in my pistol yet. I probably will replace many of them when I start carrying just to be on the safe side. And as far as I know, Springfield uses cast/MIM parts too.

I'm not thrilled with Kimber's decision to include a firing-pin safety and phase out the older series 1 pistols. Lowest common denominator thing again. I do like the fact that their system doesn't seem to affect trigger pull, like the Colt system seems to.

And no, I didn't fall for any marketing hype (from either Kimber or Springfield) when I bought my Kimber. You see, I'd narrowed my decision down to those two companies, in part based on what I could afford, and also talking to different pistol shooters. Then I went to the gun store, checked out both Springfield and Kimber pistols, and decided that the Kimber was the pistol I wanted. I liked the Springfield, but I liked the Kimber more, so that's the one I bought. My decision had nothing to do with either company's marketing department.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 11:14:54 PM EDT
I'm not one to skimp monetarily when it comes to guns. But 2 or 3 months ago Shotgun News did a huge article comparing all the popular 45's and they pretty much concluded that the Rock Island Armory one from Sarco, although the cheapest, was an awesome shooter. Its GI spec and they said it literally compeated with guns more than twice its price. Sarco is a big advertiser for SGN, so who knows if that could have had an influence.

If I were you I'd get a Colt, it will have the most sentimental value in thirty years
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 7:36:31 AM EDT
Check out Rock Island Arms 1911 style .45. Sells for around $350.00 and got a good write up in the most recent Shotgun News Treasury. Looked at one a few weeks ago and the fit and finish seemed ok. Haven't shot one, and don't know anyone who owns one. But, if it's half way accurate and feeds ok, how wrong can you go for $350.00!
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 8:47:50 AM EDT
I own a few Colts, all 80 series, and 2 series 1 Kimbers. 4 of my 5 Colts were 100% functional out of the box. My first Colt, an early vintage Officers ACP, needed a little feed ramp polishing to feed hollowpoints. Granted,I have modified the pistols to suit me better, but I have done so because I wanted to, not NEEDED to.

Both my Kimbers needed tweaking, starting with a new extractor for my SS compact. I picked up a minty SS Classic LE a couple months back. It looks like a beautiful handgun. Wish it shot as good as it looks. It has been a bit of a challenge. The slide stop is improperly fitted, and the 2 piece full length guide rod (now in the trash), had the charming attribute of loosening itself when firing the gun. This Kimber also needs some feedramp polishing, as I 've had a number of hangups on the feedramp.

Therefore, based on my limited experience, Kimber ain't all that great. They do look damn nice, however.

Both Colt and Kimber are using plastic where they shouldn't be. These parts are easily replaced.

Other than Springfield's ILS and 2 piece barrels, I think the loaded pistols look nice. I have never shot one, however.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:32:40 PM EDT
I'm glad someone posted this thread, as I just recently sold my Colt 1991 to my formerly anti-gun brother. I'll need to replace that .45 in my arsenal. What handgun collection is complete WITHOUT a 1911 model? What I bought for a carry gun is a Sig P239. If that's the gun you're considering, ura_baddog, go for it. It's one sweet piece. I haven't seen the RRA yet, I'll have to look around for one. The SA has caught my eye, as well as a SS Colt Gold Cup I saw in another shop.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:37:17 PM EDT
For some fun I would get a Norinco 1911 and then gradually change the parts you want to change. The frame is totally solid, but building up a gun can be a lot of fun.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 7:22:54 AM EDT
Yankee1911:

If you don't think you need the same kind of performance from your CCW as a SpecOps person...think again. In fact, MORE SO. Let's think about it: How often do you shoot your carry gun? How often do you clean and inspect the function of your CCW? How often do you relieve the stress on and/or replace your magazine springs? Unless it's "Every day" or "Twice a week"...you're in big trouble.

The fact is, a CCW weapon is only going to be drawn when life is on the line...your life or your family's lives. You can bet your ass that it better be 100% functional without any doubt. While SpecOps guys may shoot thousands of more rounds a month than the average citizen, it doesn't mean that YOUR CCW weapon should be less quality. In fact, the SpecOps guys aren't even using the pistol as a primary, have buddies to back them up, and are hopefully not caught by surprise.

I agree...owning a Vicker's gun is cost prohibitive. However, a solid pistol that's been worked over and tuned by a high quality gunsmith (hence the recommendation on the APG members) is quite affordable. Heck, have your Kimber tuned up and I'm sure it'll be fine.

I think you and are on the same page, maybe just slightly different paragraphs! LOL. I enjoy hearing your debate too! Thanks!

Others: I haven't heard many good things about Rock Island Arms 1911s. But, if their frames and slides are made well, it might be a nice basis for building up a good weapon (such as with Norincos as SS109 mentioned).
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:09:33 PM EDT
Whats all this about Kimber not being a good pistol because some SEALs or SWAT team does not use it? Ruger's are not used by either military or LEO's. Does this mean Ruger auto pistols are'nt up to speed? My brother has a Ruger and its pretty accurate and doesn't jam.

Is an old Colt thats been beat to death by service personnel, superior to a Kimber?

Load only 230grn round nosers in a Kimber and i bet it would work just as fine for any commmando who is used to a horsey

The High Standard 2000 is also not used by combat professionals. Is this a worthless pistol too? not to mention its Springfield clone.

Taurus makes good pistols too. The PT92 is not much different then an M92f. Same accuracy and reliability as far as i can tell. Yet no dept. issues them.

The Walther P99 is unissued as far as i know.

What would it take for a Kimber to be an issue pistol? perhaps if they made a high dollar model like SA and insure it to whatever abuses it could hold up just as well. Colt and Les Bear were beat out in competition with the SA pistol as well. Big deal, its just a contract.


ignorant lib

Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:10:23 PM EDT
I bought a Kimber Compact 4 years ago, let 6 friends shoot it and within a year 7 of us had 8 Kimbers. Is that testament enough for the accuracy of the Kimber??? I'll be the first to admit, I've never shot a Sig P220, but am planning to rent one at thto make sure that I'm not at the local range to make sure that I'm not missing anything. However, I was a 9mm purist before I bought my Kimber, but now I can't remember the last time that I shot my 9mm. I said that I'd never own a Glock, but I've been thinking an aweful lot about the Glock 23, in .40 S&W though.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:15:03 PM EDT
My personal opinion (from the new guy!)

1st choice -- buy a Kimber!

Best buy for the money -- buy a Springfield.

Neither will fail you, if it does, both factories stand 100% behind their product.

Colt blew it for me -- apparently, they have a bad combo of older CNC equipment, so-so customer service, and so-so quality control.

Good Luck
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 9:31:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Libertoon:
What would it take for a Kimber to be an issue pistol? perhaps if they made a high dollar model like SA and insure it to whatever abuses it could hold up just as well. Colt and Les Bear were beat out in competition with the SA pistol as well. Big deal, its just a contract.


ignorant lib



First of all, I don't appreciate being flamed. Resorting to name-calling is a sure sign of a feeling of inferiority and destroys the persuasiveness of your argument (which has some valid points until the name calling).

Secondly, you are INCORRECT in saying that Les Baer lost to SA on the FBI contract. Les Baer PULLED OUT OF THE BID because he felt he could not comply with the maintenance/repair timeframes required by the FBI (he's a smaller shop and has to keep his production running). Now, that doesn't mean he would have won either (so don't go there).

Third, if you look at my posts, I NEVER SAID that Kimbers were not accurate guns (FNFALGUY's comment)...in fact, I said they are "excellent paper punchers." What I DID say was that they would not be a first choice when it came to a CCW weapon as was the original question posed by this topic.

Fourth, don't get so offended because someone has negative things to say about your favorite pistol. If you don't think that an APG member's negative comments about your gun are incorrect, well, you are mistaken. Period. My "baby" is a Les Baer...and Teddy Jacobsen made some observations about two parts that were inferior. I didn't throw a temper tantrum like some infantile brat and tell him he was a ignorant liberal. I made a mental note that there was a correction I might make to the gun in a year or two when I had the money/time to let him work on it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 12:19:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Yankee1911:

If you don't think you need the same kind of performance from your CCW as a SpecOps person...think again. In fact, MORE SO. Let's think about it: How often do you shoot your carry gun? How often do you clean and inspect the function of your CCW? How often do you relieve the stress on and/or replace your magazine springs? Unless it's "Every day" or "Twice a week"...you're in big trouble.

The fact is, a CCW weapon is only going to be drawn when life is on the line...your life or your family's lives. You can bet your ass that it better be 100% functional without any doubt. While SpecOps guys may shoot thousands of more rounds a month than the average citizen, it doesn't mean that YOUR CCW weapon should be less quality. In fact, the SpecOps guys aren't even using the pistol as a primary, have buddies to back them up, and are hopefully not caught by surprise.

I agree...owning a Vicker's gun is cost prohibitive. However, a solid pistol that's been worked over and tuned by a high quality gunsmith (hence the recommendation on the APG members) is quite affordable. Heck, have your Kimber tuned up and I'm sure it'll be fine.

I think you and are on the same page, maybe just slightly different paragraphs! LOL. I enjoy hearing your debate too! Thanks!

-snip-





Tailgate,

Sorry for the delayed response. I believe we have the same line of thought,too, but I'd like to clarify a couple of my points.

I'm not using my Kimber in the same type of environment as SpecOps, SWAT, etc. I do agree that my pistol should function as flawlessly as those carried by the "operators". And it does. Every time I pull the trigger, it goes "BANG". If I were to subject a Kimber to the same stresses that those guys do, I wouldn't be as confident in its performance.

Let's face it, Kimber builds a pretty tight pistol. Not the best thing in the world when you've got to spend your day slogging through the mud in some backward, piss-ant third world country. But, since I don't spend my days that way, I'm completely confident that my Kimber will fire when I need it to do so. It's all about the way a pistol will be used. And I don't even come close to stressing my pistol the way that SpecOps does.

I don't have a CCW permit (I live in the Denver metro area and we're not allowed to have them ), but yes, I am pretty obsessive about keeping my pistol in working order. I clean my pistol after every range session, and detail strip it every month or so, depending on how much use it has seen. I haven't replaced the springs on my current mags yet, but then again, I rotate my loaded mags so that I never have a mag spring compressed for more than a couple of days.

Is the Kimber a good pistol for somebody who simply wants to put it in a dresser drawer, "just in case?" Probably not, but I don't think any 1911 would be particularly suitable for that purpose. And I would hope that those of you who have CCW permits take pistol maintenance as seriously as marksmanship.

Get my Kimber tuned up? It's actually pretty good as it is, but since I'll be moving to the western slope of Colorado soon, I'll probably give Tim Brian a call and see what we can work out. He might not want to work on it since it's a Kimber, but you never know. He does build some damn fine pistols, though.

I've enjoyed this debate, too, even if you are completely wrong. Just kidding.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 12:43:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FNFalGuy:
I bought a Kimber Compact 4 years ago, let 6 friends shoot it and within a year 7 of us had 8 Kimbers. Is that testament enough for the accuracy of the Kimber??? I'll be the first to admit, I've never shot a Sig P220, but am planning to rent one at thto make sure that I'm not at the local range to make sure that I'm not missing anything. However, I was a 9mm purist before I bought my Kimber, but now I can't remember the last time that I shot my 9mm. I said that I'd never own a Glock, but I've been thinking an aweful lot about the Glock 23, in .40 S&W though.



Glock??? Glock???

Repent, my brother, and repeat the sacred words: "Plastic is for spastics, but steel is the real deal."

Only through this will you be saved from a lifetime of bad trigger pulls and the jeers of those who walk safely in the light of the 1911.

There, that should bring the Glock nuts out of the woodwork.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 1:39:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
Glock??? Glock???

Repent, my brother, and repeat the sacred words: "Plastic is for spastics, but steel is the real deal."

Only through this will you be saved from a lifetime of bad trigger pulls and the jeers of those who walk safely in the light of the 1911.

There, that should bring the Glock nuts out of the woodwork.



"That's the way he wants it. Well, that's the way he gets it."

It never fails to amaze me when I see the peacocks who strut around with the high dollar 1911s at some of the pistol matches I have been to that just can't seem to get them to run. The last match I attended had no less than 3 1911s who jammed or FTF during the match with ball ammo no less. There always seem to be at least one at each match that balks at functioning correctly.

I know this is by no means indicative of all 1911s but for me it is all I need to see. It reaffirms my love for the combat tupperware.

I also crack up every time I read or hear that once you buy one of these masterpieces you should send it off to a gunsmith for a reliability makeover.

Go right ahead boys and keep buying those fidgety finnicky 1911s that need to be "sent off" to even think about functioning %100 with all anno types, Glock are hard enough to come by as it is.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 1:46:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Here's my opinion:

You could buy a new Springfield and have that ultra-nifty "Integral Locking System", where you can stick a key in the mainspring housing and have a functional pistol.



A mainspring housing is EASILY replaced.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 1:47:56 PM EDT
You want a 1911 or a double-action pistol ?

If you want a 1911 get a Springfield or Kimber.

A RRA if you can find one for $800.

If you want a double-action pistol though there are plenty of good ones to choose from.

Glock
Sig
H&K
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 3:53:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2002 3:56:10 PM EDT by Yankee1911]

Originally Posted By cnatra:

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Here's my opinion:

You could buy a new Springfield and have that ultra-nifty "Integral Locking System", where you can stick a key in the mainspring housing and have a functional pistol.



A mainspring housing is EASILY replaced.



Yes it is, and I said the same thing earlier in the thread...



Now granted, it's easy enough to change mainspring housings and be rid of this "feature", but I'm pretty disappointed that they decided to pander to the "guns are unsafe" crowd. Why market a potentially dangerous product to the lowest common denominator of society? I like their pistols, but I've lost some respect for the company because of this decision.



It's not simply an issue of the ease in replacing the mainspring housing. It bothers me that some firearms companies are voluntarily putting worthless safety features on handguns in an attempt to fend off yet another lawsuit, brought on by some fool who shouldn't be allowed to own lace-up shoes, let alone a firearm.

And how long do you think it will be before the government decides to make disabling a built-in "safety" device illegal? Maybe we should stock up on pre-ban mainspring housings while we can.

Sorry for hijacking the thread with my rant, but I feel that Springfield really screwed gun owners in much the same way as Ruger ("no civilian needs more than 10 rounds") did.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 4:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 10:15:07 AM EDT by cnatra]

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By cnatra:
A mainspring housing is EASILY replaced.


Yes it is, and I said the same thing earlier in the thread...



sorry I missed that earlier post


Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
Now granted, it's easy enough to change mainspring housings and be rid of this "feature", but I'm pretty disappointed that they decided to pander to the "guns are unsafe" crowd. Why market a potentially dangerous product to the lowest common denominator of society? I like their pistols, but I've lost some respect for the company because of this decision.
It's not simply an issue of the ease in replacing the mainspring housing. It bothers me that some firearms companies are voluntarily putting worthless safety features on handguns in an attempt to fend off yet another lawsuit, brought on by some fool who shouldn't be allowed to own lace-up shoes, let alone a firearm.
And how long do you think it will be before the government decides to make disabling a built-in "safety" device illegal? Maybe we should stock up on pre-ban mainspring housings while we can.
Sorry for hijacking the thread with my rant, but I feel that Springfield really screwed gun owners in much the same way as Ruger ("no civilian needs more than 10 rounds") did.



I understand & agree with your point as far as the politics of it.
I wouldn't equate it to the S&W deal but disappointing nonetheless.
I was merely pointing it out from the practical point of view if one really wants a Springfield 1911.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 4:51:01 PM EDT
The LAPD SWAT team has gone to the Kimber Custom II as their sidearm. Tacoma PD carries Kimber as their issued sidearm.

Link Posted: 6/3/2002 6:00:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matrix:
The LAPD SWAT team has gone to the Kimber Custom II as their sidearm. Tacoma PD carries Kimber as their issued sidearm.



Matrix: YOU WIN! While I haven't confirmed your statement independently, you are the first person in over a year of my challenges on this forum to offer up proof that any department uses Kimber as an issued sidearm...especially a SWAT organization. Interesting...thanks for the post, I'll definitely check on it.

LET ME DEFEND THE GLOCKS...which is something I cringe to do because I think they are the ugliest POS I have ever seen. But one think can be said for these plastic wonders--they are damned reliable, simple to operate, and easy to field strip/clean. The only true malfunctions I have seen during IDPA matches with Glocks are typically stovepipes...and they were all caused by the shooters' poor recoil technique (they were letting their wrists absorb the recoil which didn't let the slide rock all the way back...STOVEPIPE!).

I never thought I'd have to defend a Glock on this forum (again, don't own any and dislike their looks)...but I have to say they are an excellently reliable out-of-the-factory-box tool!
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 6:02:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matrix:
The LAPD SWAT team has gone to the Kimber Custom II as their sidearm. Tacoma PD carries Kimber as their issued sidearm.



Matrix: YOU WIN! While I haven't confirmed your statement independently, you are the first person in over a year of my challenges on this forum to offer up proof that any department uses Kimber as an issued sidearm...especially a SWAT organization. Interesting...thanks for the post, I'll definitely check on it.

LET ME DEFEND THE GLOCKS...which is something I cringe to do because I think they are the ugliest POS I have ever seen. But one think can be said for these plastic wonders--they are damned reliable, simple to operate, and easy to field strip/clean. The only true malfunctions I have seen during IDPA matches with Glocks are typically stovepipes...and they were all caused by the shooters' poor recoil technique (they were letting their wrists absorb the recoil which didn't let the slide rock all the way back...STOVEPIPE!).

I never thought I'd have to defend a Glock on this forum (again, don't own any and dislike their looks)...but I have to say they are an excellently reliable out-of-the-factory-box tool!
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