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Posted: 5/19/2002 10:09:09 PM EDT
I am new to the AR game, just went out and bought a new 20 inch Bushy. I have several questions, that hopefully some of you guys can answer.
1.The manual suggest the use of a "clp" to clean the weapon?!?!? I have never used anything but HOPPES #9 Followed by Oil. Does "clp" take the place of the two, or do you have to follow it with oil. Where do I get the stuff?
2.What is a good source for buying ammo online? What kind should I use? Wolf works well in my mini 14's and AK's. I have heard that the steel cased stuff is hard on these AR weapons. I do handload for all my hunting guns, not really practical for Ak's or mini's as I like to shoot and I only have a single stage press.
3. I would like to get a cleaning kit to stuff in the stock. Where can I get this online, reasonable price?
4. A friend of mine has some Colt Factory clips that have never been used. Some 20's and I think some 30's. He has had these clips for about 15 years and decided he wants to sell them, as he does not own an Ar. What is a fair price for these items? I really don't want to burn him.(like I said he is a friend)
5. These guns have a dust cover over the bolt that opens when you pull back the charging handle. If I close this dust cover on a loaded weapon, will it hurt anything If I fire the weapon with the dust cover closed? I am guessing that this practice is ok as it looks like the cover is force open when the bolt travels rearward.
Thanks for any help. I have owned firearms my whole life, This is my first Ar, and I am pretty much Ignorant of the thing.


Link Posted: 5/19/2002 10:27:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 10:27:41 PM EDT by misterhemi]
Welcome!!!!

If you get hooked this won't be your last AR.

I can answer some of your questions.

CLP replaces Hoppes and Oil. I personally prefer Hoppes #9 and Kroil. You don't need to follow CLP with oil as it serves both purposes.

You can buy CLP manufactured by Break Free. I have some but don't use it much.

You can also get misc. items from Tapco.
There are some others but I can't remember right now.

Regarding ammo, you can try the Wolf ammo. Don't buy a lot of it first, get a small batch to test. There are some who have had problems but if it works for you then thats good. I would suggest checking out AmmoMan. He has great prices and a good assortment of 223 ammo.

I'm not sure about mag prices right now but i'm sure others can fill you in.

It is fine to keep the dust cover closed on a loaded weapon as it will open any time the bolt carrier cycles in either direction.

I hope this helps. Have fun, be safe, etc
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 10:28:34 PM EDT
To answer your questions :

1. CLP = cleaner , lubricant , preservative ; its a all in one product but go ahead and used what your using . Hoppes #9 does a better job on removing copper fouling IMO .

2.Try www.ammoman.com you'll find he's a favorite of people on this board . I personally avoid using wolf ammo in an AR15 . Some people say that they've had no problems other mucho problems .

3. Military style cleaning kits , www.tapco.com comes to mind first also check out the websites of advertisers .

4. Genuine Colt mags bring a slight preminum , couldn't give you a guess on value since I only own one genuine Colt mag .

5. Firing with the dust cover close doesn't hurt a thing .
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 10:32:26 PM EDT
Mags are worth $10-$20 depending on the amount of finish left.

A lot of AR's don't like wolf ammo due to the laquer coating on the case. It often leaves a gummed up mess inside the chamber.

Goto www.tapco.com for AR15 supplies or the "Equipement Echange here on this board, it's at the top of the screen.

Closing the dust cover is okay, it keeps the dust out and opens atoumatically when fired.

You will notice a big differance between an AR15 and a AK/Mini 14. The AR15 should be a lot more accurate than the other two.

"CLP" is a cleaner or something....I don't use it.

Also check out the "ARTICLES" tab at the top right side of this page. There you will find a "Manuals and Guides" section that will answer a lot of your questions concerning your new rifle.

And lastly, Congradulations!!!! You have just bought the finest firearm made in the world today!!

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 11:00:10 PM EDT
Thanks for the help.
I know each individual weapon will like different ammo. I have a 20 inch, 1 in 9 twist barrel. Any ideas or suggestions?
I did buy a case of the wolf ammo for use in my mini 14. It will not hold a group out of the ruger. I am not even going to try it in the new gun. I got what I paid for!
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 11:06:43 PM EDT
LOL Well in my opinion nothing will help a Mini 14 shoot decent groups!!

With a 1/9 twist you can shot just about any grain weight ammo, however the 70gr and up probably will not fit in the mag. Best to stay in the 55-62gr limit, which is most military surplus. Goto www.ammoman.com for superior ammo service.

Here is a handload I use for accurate 100 yard loads, I have shoot 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards using a scope with this: 1.75 case/26.6 gr Hodgdon's H335/ Sierra 52 gr boattail match bullets/ MAG primers/ 2.245 OAL. Use at your own risk and start 5% lower in powder.

Have fun!!

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 11:12:45 PM EDT
Winchester Q3131 and Q3131a are mil spec to M-193 standards. It's probably the most preferred ammo for serious use.

Many here like the surplus South African ammo being sold.

Here are some ammo spots to start you off.

Ammoman
Ammunitionstore
ColeDistributing
AimSurplus
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:27:43 AM EDT
Definitely experiment with different ammo (surplus and comercial) and find the one that suits your need best in regards to accuracy v. price. I must tell you that the Radway Green SS109 may not work in your 20 inch. It works great in my carbines, but sometimes does not cycle properly in my and other people's 20 inch AR's.

The South African Surplus is good ammo for surplus ammo. It usually averages about the same prices as the good comercial ammos (Lake City and Winchester Q3131 and 3131a) for 2700 rounds)SA Surplus) v 1000 rounds(comercial).
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:32:40 AM EDT
Just say NO to ......... wolf.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:21:13 AM EDT
If yer in Arizona, I'll take that nasty wolf ammo and dispose of it for ya!! Works great in 5 out of 6 of my ARs...
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:10:38 AM EDT
Hoppes No. 9 and a decent gun oil will do, so will CLP. Some members here swear by CLP, some have their own witch’s brew of oils and solvents. And, of course, it’s an endless source of arguments. The military uses CLP.

You should be able to get the Breakfree brand of CLP at just about any sporting goods store.

Almost everyone agrees to NOT use WD-40!!

While a segmented cleaning rod is handy to have in your buttstock, I’d suggest you also get a one piece rod for general cleaning. Of course, we’ve also got members who swear by Otis cleaning kits and by Bore Snakes.

Magazine prices vary so much, I’m reluctant to guess.

A few things, though, about mags. The 20 rounders seem worth a little more than the 30 rounders, probably because fewer were made. Colt’s are worth a little premium for the name, even though most other USGI mags are just as good. Don’t buy any mags other than USGI – except maybe Thermold or Orlite synthetic mags.

If any of your friend’s magazines are 20 rounders, blocked off to 5 rounds – suggest you don’t drill out the rivet to convert them to 20 rounders. These are popular with hunters and might be worth a small premium.

Definitely check out Troys Magazine FAQ in the magazine forum before buying additional mags.

(Incidentally, referring to magazines as “clips” invites attack from the more idle members of the board. Technically, there is a difference. Generally, clips refer to stripper clips.)

A front sight adjusting tool is handy, but not essential.

Welcome aboard!
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:35:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chaos4570:
1.The manual suggest the use of a "clp" to clean the weapon?!?!? I have never used anything but HOPPES #9 Followed by Oil. Does "clp" take the place of the two, or do you have to follow it with oil. Where do I get the stuff?


Yes use CLP. Breakfree CLP (make sure the bottle says CLP - there are lots of other Breakfree products) Cleans - Lubricates - and Protects. One product to do all 3. Every few thousand rounds you will need to use some copper remover - but that is rarely needed. Use CLP because IF you have a problem the standard diagnostic manuals (like the -23&P) all run on the assumption you have cleaned and lubricated per the military method (as outlined in the -10). Most gunshops carry Breakfree CLP.

Btw you can get the manuals here:old.ar15.com/books



2.What is a good source for buying ammo online? What kind should I use?


Ammoman.com is good as is SPortsmansguide.com

I like Winchester Q3131A and South African M1A3 military surplus.



3. I would like to get a cleaning kit to stuff in the stock. Where can I get this online, reasonable price?


USGI works fine for a standard chrome lined Bushy, but I much prefer the Otis kit (www.otisguns.com). Sableco sells Otis at a discount.



4. A friend of mine has some Colt Factory clips that have never been used. Some 20's and I think some 30's. He has had these clips for about 15 years and decided he wants to sell them, as he does not own an Ar. What is a fair price for these items?


I think you mean he has 'Magazines' - Clips are what feed magazines (little metal strips) or are used in Garands.

If the magazines are in good condition say $20-$25 for the 20's and $15-$20 for the 30s. If they are New-In-Wrap then double the price is not uncommon.


If I fire the weapon with the dust cover closed?

Uhh the weapon was designed to be fired that way - you walk with the cover closed to prevent gunk from getting into it.

Remember this is a MILITARY design - not a civilian 'hunting/sporting' type rifle - it was meant to take much more abuse than you can probably throw at it.
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