Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/15/2002 8:10:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2002 8:13:57 PM EDT by CactusJack]
on another topic someone asked if they shud use Wolf ammo in their AR-15....., sooooooo..! after all the glowing testimonials, i decided to try it in my "NoName" AR-15 which has had a few more rounds thru it than any of my others (we're talking thousands) so figgered this one is broke in & a bit "loose", but not as sloppy loose as an AK, & as some say "eat that Wolf"... so i loaded up 25 rnds in 5 different green follower mags & headed for the range wyth a clean rifle, so clean it cud be considered sterile.....[:D}

i am an iron sight off hand shooter most of the tyme, so i plinked away at our 10" armor plate gong, i fired happily away at the gong, hitting it 7 out of 15 tymes...., then !! a jam !! cleared that & got off a 4 round string..., jam !

i swear...! i have no idea how i had the patience to finish off 100 rnds of that shyt !! but i did, it was jam & clear every shot after 50 rnds, then i had a mag wyth 20 rnds of S&B in a 30 rnd mag that i save for driving home, in case i get attacked by a rabid chipmunk..., or a..., well any way i rammed that mag home, released the bolt catch & fired as fast as my lyttle arthritic finger cud pull that trigger..., NOT ONE malfunction !!

i swear i will never use Wolf ammo in any of my rifles ever again......!!!!!!

any one want 45 boxes of junk ??????

forgot to mention that i used the FA about 30 tymes, that is about how many had to have that lyttle extra nudge to close the bolt.....


Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:47:49 PM EDT
and some people say that we make these problems up...
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 9:31:15 PM EDT
For free? I will take the Wolf off your hands!!! Please e-mail me!!! Hey, I'll even pay the shipping!!!
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 9:42:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2002 10:34:29 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
I personally never had prblems with the Wolf .223 stuff in my AR. With all the stories of how ppl have trouble with it Im beginning to think that Wolf desinged it ONLY for the AK.223 or SAR-3 and not a picky gun like the AR.I know its strictly SS109 Nato stuff for my AR from now on!
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:17:31 PM EDT
Please send all your lousy Wolf ammo to me. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:02:15 AM EDT
If your seriously getting rid of it, I'd like to try some in my AR to see what all the fuss is about...


-Jared
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:03:25 AM EDT
for any one who is serious about taking this Wolf garbage off my hands i'll trade 2 for 1...., i'll give you 2 boxes of junk & you give me one box of any good ammo that will function.....

i saw a pile of empty Wolf cases on the fireing line so maybe in tyme i'll find the shooter & make him an offer......

Buddha,
if you had been at the range yestdy. you damn shure wudda got it free, but my anger has subsided & common sense took over so the deal is a trade, i am certain i'll find someone at the range who will work wyth me in getting rid of it, i know a couple of AK guys.....
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:21:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CactusJack:

i swear...! i have no idea how i had the patience to finish off 100 rnds of that shyt !!
i swear i will never use Wolf ammo in any of my rifles ever again......!!!!!!



You were obviously hallucinating, because I read that AR-15 malfunctions with Wolf ammo are a myth. I read it on the Internet so it must be true.

Further proof of your opium dream is revealed by the alleged "use of the forward assist." Everyone knows the forward assist is about as useful as the appendix.

Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:36:32 AM EDT
Ken,

that is one of the best peices of satire i have read in a looooooong tyme [:D}

it was rather hot & windy at the range ystdy so you may be right on that halucinating theory, as to the FA thyngy, i guess i was just paranoid or as you say, the the opium high made me thynk i was using the FA & in reality i was picking my nose...

somehow i get the impression you are as big a joker as i am !! & it is just possible that you & i are the only persons who have ever used the FA on their rifle......

have a great day pal

Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:25:24 AM EDT
So why does this stuff work reliably when I use it?
Why have I never seen a stoppage involving this ammo?

If you don't like this ammo, fine. It will mean more in stock when I go to buy a case..

Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:35:28 AM EDT
Well, for what its worth, the wolf ammunition that I have is crap. I also heard from a buddy of mine that if you shoot it too fast, to the point where your gun is running really hot, it will melt that dark green lacquer on the "brass" and get all kinds of crap in your gun. I have been carefull not to shoot it hot, but has anyone else experienced this?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:38:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CactusJack:
on another topic someone asked if they shud use Wolf ammo in their AR-15....., sooooooo..! after all the glowing testimonials, i decided to try it in my "NoName" AR-15 which has had a few more rounds thru it than any of my others (we're talking thousands) so figgered this one is broke in & a bit "loose", but not as sloppy loose as an AK, & as some say "eat that Wolf"... so i loaded up 25 rnds in 5 different green follower mags & headed for the range wyth a clean rifle, so clean it cud be considered sterile.....[:D}

i am an iron sight off hand shooter most of the tyme, so i plinked away at our 10" armor plate gong, i fired happily away at the gong, hitting it 7 out of 15 tymes...., then !! a jam !! cleared that & got off a 4 round string..., jam !

i swear...! i have no idea how i had the patience to finish off 100 rnds of that shyt !! but i did, it was jam & clear every shot after 50 rnds, then i had a mag wyth 20 rnds of S&B in a 30 rnd mag that i save for driving home, in case i get attacked by a rabid chipmunk..., or a..., well any way i rammed that mag home, released the bolt catch & fired as fast as my lyttle arthritic finger cud pull that trigger..., NOT ONE malfunction !!

i swear i will never use Wolf ammo in any of my rifles ever again......!!!!!!

any one want 45 boxes of junk ??????

forgot to mention that i used the FA about 30 tymes, that is about how many had to have that lyttle extra nudge to close the bolt.....





LMAO! This coming from someone using S&B ammo!! HAHAHAHAAA If you're using S&B ammo, then you have a lot more problems than Wolf jamming in your AR. You might want to do a search on this forum and all the other gun related forums for S&B ammo! That shit will never enter a chamber of one of my rifles!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:06:33 AM EDT
I only use Wolf in my AK's and SKS. That damn laquer case just ruins my AR's chamber. I am sure some people can use it just fine but I wont take the chance.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:14:11 AM EDT
W/N- The S&B problems stemmed from one batch of 180 grain .30-06 softpoint.. It was recalled to my knowledge, but a lot of people are still selling it.
The basic problem was excessive softenss of the brass.. Failures were mainly blown primers, and case head separations..

The rest of the ammo made by S&B seems to be damn good, the 9X19 115 grain ammo failing only in some early open bolt SMG's..(Do NOT use in an OWEN. It wil not blow the bolt back far enough to catch ANY sear, but will merrilly empty the mag..)

This whole ""X" ammo sucks because I had a stoppage" is just bizarre.. Especially when others have little to no problems with similar weapons, and the same ammo..

It's especially funny to hear the "lacquer=glue" story popping up. Guess the weapons I fire this ammo through are blessed, or I'm really lucky.. (Off to Vegas if the second is true!)

Like I've said before regarding this topic,
"If you feel uncomfortable feeding your weapon ANY ammo, then don't. Nobody is forcing you to buy steel cased ammo, and nobody is forcing you to shoot it."
This is especially true after repeated stoppages, without trying to find out WHY you're having em. Blaming the ammo while at the range is convient, but may not be the reason for the stoppage.

Now le't address your incident CactusJack..
1, you choose an especially well broken in weapon. Good idea. Something that has been fired numerous times, reliably..

2, you load three to five rounds in a mag. Again, good idea. I do this when testing F/A's to reduce run aways. An unexpected five round burst from even a M-1918BAR is manageable..

3, (and here's where the trouble starts)
You run three mags of five, experience a stoppage, reduce it, then continue until a second stoppage. Here, I would have stopped. There IS a problem, either ammo related, or mechanical..

You continued firing, and clearing stoppages, frustrating yourself, and risking damage to your weapon.

From your description, and from my experience with the Wolf ammo,(Lightly loaded) I'd reccomend a new buffer spring..You're having to use the forward assist to final seat each successive shot after the weapon warmed ..

But why did the S&B work You ask?
S&B loads their 5.56 hot. Pull a bullet, weigh the charges, and chronograph the stuff.

These are not magic. They're machines. When they stop with one ammo, but work with another, either find out why, or stick with what works.
Bitching about the stuff that dose'nt work solves little.

Meplat-


Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:27:19 AM EDT
I’ll pay $45 per 500 rounds to anyone who wants to get rid of .223 Wolf ammo. You pay shipping.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:37:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Further proof of your opium dream is revealed by the alleged "use of the forward assist." Everyone knows the forward assist is about as useful as the appendix.




Why in Gods name would anyone force a round into the chamber that won't go in on it's own?
That's a recipe for disaster. Not to say that there isn't a legitimate use for the forward assist but forcing a round into the chamber is a bad idea no matter which way you slice it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:20:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 10:20:45 AM EDT by Buddha]


Buddha,
if you had been at the range yestdy. you damn shure wudda got it free, but my anger has subsided & common sense took over so the deal is a trade, i am certain i'll find someone at the range who will work wyth me in getting rid of it, i know a couple of AK guys.....



No, no, that stuff sucks!! You're angry, you're angry!! Feed that anger! You must transfer your anger of Commie crap! Give me your Wolf, let me be the transference vessel of your rage!!....I must give Buddha my Wolf....I must give Buddha my Wolf...lol.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 2:18:18 PM EDT
Meplat,
do you live in or near Tucson ? if so we can deal, you can get 45 boxes real quick for 24 boxes of Q3131A........

you are correct about the light loaded Wolf, it barely had enuff power to blow back enuff gas to ram the bolt carrier all the way to the rear, it was fairly accurate & surprizingly clean tho, as for the stoppages.., if i belived they were of a dangerous nature i wudda quit, every round that i chambered individually locked in wythout assist.....

any way, whos bitchin..? i just gave you & all the others here a test report & my opinion, that shyt sux !!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 2:28:37 PM EDT
Wolf_Nazi,

laff all ya want, but i'd much rather put brass S&B in my guns than that commie steel crap, at least the S&B has enuff power to make the action function properly, besides i got a large inheritance & have been buying a lot of AR-15 lately & i just try to burn up the ammo that comes wyth'm !! no big deal right ??


Buddha,
yore a gittin greedy
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 2:35:13 PM EDT
CJ!! If you can't find anyone nearby, I'll take it off your hands in a trade.. It works great in everything except my 20 inch.. E-Mail me if you still have it... Tom
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 2:37:20 PM EDT
I appreciate CJs report. I personally like the russian stuff but have not tried it yet in an AR. Others have reported that wolf may be lightly loaded. I have about 500 rds of Barbaul that I am going to try in my brand new unfired Bushy. I can day from shooting both wolf and barnaul in my SAR-3 that the latter produced a bit more bump. If I have positive results I will let everyone know. Wolf and Barnaul are produced in different arsenals but sell for about the same thing.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:29:03 PM EDT
I think you know where I stand on the issue
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 6:44:47 PM EDT
CactusJack- Nope, I'm in Prescott.. I tend to be wrenching on weekends as well as weekdays, so a run south is kind of tough.. (Especially with the happy little weenie roast going on here..Got a 12+ ton USFS Mercedes firetruck needing service..)

I use the term "bitching" to indicate general gripes, or other discussion about malfunctions.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:49:17 PM EDT
bigyeti,

you my friend, have just made a deal !! i'll bring it wyth me Saturday to the show.......

you shud see my now !!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:55:46 PM EDT
Meplat,
ahhhhh the ol wrenching game, my son is the head mechanic on a dredging barge in San Diego, he just bought himself one of those thermal image sensors, uses it to check the bronze/babbit pillow bearings on the power shaft, the temp. reveals if the lubrication is sufficient......

take care.....


Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:19:53 PM EDT
I think it's amazing how many people who have never had problems with Wolf will, in effect, call someone that has had problems a liar about it.

Just because you don't have problems or know somebody that has doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of us out there who have.

CactusJack is only reporting what happened to him. After I had my problems, I sold 800 rounds of their .45 for $5 a box. I was happy to get rid of it too.

I have had problems with both their .223 and their .45. However, their 5.45 works like a champ in my SAR-2.

So lay off, guys. A good percentage of us have had problems, and the sticking rounds and melted laquer isn't a myth just because you haven't seen it. Remember, sometimes the impossible is just something you haven't seen before.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 5:12:52 AM EDT
Thank you Bro......,

after talking to several other folks at the range, who have tried Wolf ammo in their AR-15, EVERY one of them experienced the same problem..., constant jamming......!!!
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 5:51:07 AM EDT
Brouhaha- I've asked MANY times for someone to post pictures, of either the casings,sans lacquer or the chamber with built up lacquer..

Hell, I even put up a post regarding load data, (Yes, lightly loaded, by MEASURE) and attempted to reproduce these failures. No, I don't own stock in the company, and no, I'm not paid to do this.

SO when I see posts that say "I had a jam, this is crap" with little info as to WHY there was a stoppage. Instead they primarily contain a blanket damnation of a product I have had absoutely no problem with in numerous calibers, and numerous weapons,( including select fires) I get interested as to WHY it failed in a similar firearm..(Might it occur to me? Am I buying diffrent lots of ammo? maybe it's the lubricants I use..)

Again, I invite anyone who has hard evidence, photographic, or casings from the weapon showing lacquer transfer to post images here.(Hell, mail em to me, with the circumstances surrounding the stoppage.My Email is not a secret, being in every post I make..)

Leave the rumors about this ammo at the gunshow..WHY does it fail in one, but not another near identical weapon, under similar conditions? Like I said, these are MACHINES. Let's find out what causes this..

With all the nice, large piccies of some tricked out AR's popping up on the General Discussion forum, it should be simple to take a shot of a lacquered up chamber..Had I a digital camera, I'd do it, if someone produced the fouled weapon.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 6:09:10 AM EDT
Fired over 360 rounds through a preban Sporter, a mix of 55 and 62 grain without failure or need to use the FA. I have noticed that the Wolf in both bullet loadings is loaded a bit lighter than the South African 5.56 in the tan battle packs.

Noah
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 6:18:05 AM EDT
Is it a Chrome chamber or mabe an SGW/OLY Barrel non Chromed tight chamber??
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 6:22:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Meplat:
Brouhaha- I've asked MANY times for someone to post pictures, of either the casings,sans lacquer or the chamber with built up lacquer..

Hell, I even put up a post regarding load data, (Yes, lightly loaded, by MEASURE) and attempted to reproduce these failures. No, I don't own stock in the company, and no, I'm not paid to do this.

SO when I see posts that say "I had a jam, this is crap" with little info as to WHY there was a stoppage. Instead they primarily contain a blanket damnation of a product I have had absoutely no problem with in numerous calibers, and numerous weapons,( including select fires) I get interested as to WHY it failed in a similar firearm..(Might it occur to me? Am I buying diffrent lots of ammo? maybe it's the lubricants I use..)

Again, I invite anyone who has hard evidence, photographic, or casings from the weapon showing lacquer transfer to post images here.(Hell, mail em to me, with the circumstances surrounding the stoppage.My Email is not a secret, being in every post I make..)

Leave the rumors about this ammo at the gunshow..WHY does it fail in one, but not another near identical weapon, under similar conditions? Like I said, these are MACHINES. Let's find out what causes this..

With all the nice, large piccies of some tricked out AR's popping up on the General Discussion forum, it should be simple to take a shot of a lacquered up chamber..Had I a digital camera, I'd do it, if someone produced the fouled weapon.

Meplat-



What he said!!
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 6:38:22 AM EDT
Well, Meplat. I would help you out, gosh darn it. Too bad I don't use that crap anymore.

I will say that the laquer is removed fairly easily with some Hoppes and a chamber brush. It comes out looking reddish brown on the patches.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 1:27:29 PM EDT
Armson-Oeg..,

if you are typing at me.., i have no idea, there are NO markings on the barrel.., none, nada, zilch, ka-put !!
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 1:40:11 PM EDT
Meplat,
i wud be glad to help you all i can in your qwest for knowledge........

""SO when I see posts that say "I had a jam, this is crap" with little info as to WHY there was a stoppage. >>the stoppage i belive was due to underpowered ammo<<

Instead they primarily contain a blanket damnation of a product I have had absoutely no problem with in numerous calibers, and numerous weapons,( including select fires) I get interested as to WHY it failed in a similar firearm..(Might it occur to me? Am I buying diffrent lots of ammo? maybe it's the lubricants I use..)>> maybe you have a sloppy chamber & action wyth a weak buffer spring.., presuming we are talking AR15, as that is all i own, my friend tells me "...that ammo, (Wolf) you can throw it in a swamp & pull it out 3 months later & it's all rusty & it'll still feed thru my AK..." BUT !! it will NOT function in his AR15..., all i can say my friend is if you are happy wyth it GREAT !!

i am NOT & will never risk my lyfe nor those i love & care about by having faulty ammo around in a dire tyme of need !!!!!!



Link Posted: 5/17/2002 2:13:57 PM EDT
I'm with Meplat on this. I'm not saying CJ didn't have problems - to the contrary, I am quite sure he did, but I think there are other reasons for it. Sounds like an unlined barrel & tight chamber (No markings? Its definitely not Colt or Bushmaster). I've shot tons of the stuff through my Bushy (full auto, no less) and not had any problems with the ammo. In fact, last summer while shooting with some AR15.com people (DavidC, DragracerArt, 7, Fatty M4, paspecops, etc) I started experiencing jams and problems with good ammo through my 11.5" Bushmaster upper, but the Wolf and Barnaul ran fine even after the gun stopped running with SS109.

If the laquer comes out of a barrel with Hoppe's, has anyone tried just wiping a loaded round with Hoppe's to see if laquer comes off? Has anyone taken an unfired round, pulled the bullet and primer, dumped the powder, and heated the case to see if this laquer comes off under heat? Seems to me, it would be fairly easy to test to see if there really is a laquer problem or not. Regardless, I've also shot thousands upon thousands of rounds of 9mm Wolf through my subguns, and never had a problem related to the ammo or laquer.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 3:54:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 7:38:59 PM EDT
CJ- My primary AR-15 is a Colt R6700CH. Hardly a sloppy chamber, nor action..The weak buffer spring may be a possibility, however given it's ability to digest near any 5.56, save one type of southeast asian surplus (Faulty primers), I doubt this as well..

As to having "faulty ammo" as my previous post said, "If you feel uncomfortable using this ammo, dont." Nobody is forcing you to buy this brand. You did, had a problem with it. I'm just wondering why some do, and some don't.

As to a "Dire time of need" ammo, well,that's what the point of shooting cheap ammo is for.. Keep the "good stuff" in bandoliers, on clips ready to go, or have a few ready to use mags loaded with Lake City, or whatever proves most reliable. I'm shooting the Wolf for proficency maintenance, not in a life or death situation..

Brouhaha, I'm sure you would be willing to help.
So, what were the conditions under which the stoppages occured? Ambient temprature, and number of rounds fired prior to problems?
Was the problem reduced by switching to another ammo? If so what kind?

Magazines, and weapon description would be "helpful", which you've assured me you wish to be ..

Meplat-

Link Posted: 5/17/2002 8:00:54 PM EDT
Seriously though guys; All mine run good except my 20 inch Bushy and I can make it run by leaving the action open the night before I shoot... (weakens the recoil spring a tad) You're right CJ it's got a bit less oomph..
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 9:05:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigyeti:
Seriously though guys; All mine run good except my 20 inch Bushy and I can make it run by leaving the action open the night before I shoot... (weakens the recoil spring a tad) You're right CJ it's got a bit less oomph..


Are you talking about the 55 or 62 grn. Wolf?
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:20:07 AM EDT
I'm another Anti-223 Wolf guy. It took forever to get thru the 500 round box I bought. Every other round jammed. I started putting a brass cased shell every other one to feed them thru the gun. I had no gripe with accuracy, but the lacquer and the long metal casing just did not work with warm barrels.

Now, I use the heck out of Wolf in the AK and SKSs. Best cheap round for those guns.

LOL Steadypull
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 7:44:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 7:45:45 AM EDT by mini14jac]
I certainly won't call anyone a liar, if they say their gun won't shoot a certain ammo.

I have to agree with others, in that it is probably non-chrome, tight chamber problem.
My Bushy eats it all day.
(If nothing happens, me and the BM are headed to the range after work, to get rid of some nasty ol Wolf. )

I can honestly say that in a SKS, two AKs, a Mini14, and a Bushmaster Shorty, I've never had a problem caused by Wolf or Barnaul ammo.
So, let's say your rifle won't shoot Wolf, but I can't agree that Wolf ammo is trash.
Bottom line, if your gun won't shoot it, don't buy it.
It is a free country after all.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 8:27:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 8:28:47 AM EDT by tatjana]

Originally Posted By Meplat:
Brouhaha- I've asked MANY times for someone to post pictures, of either the casings,sans lacquer or the chamber with built up lacquer..

Hell, I even put up a post regarding load data, (Yes, lightly loaded, by MEASURE) and attempted to reproduce these failures. No, I don't own stock in the company, and no, I'm not paid to do this.

SO when I see posts that say "I had a jam, this is crap" with little info as to WHY there was a stoppage. Instead they primarily contain a blanket damnation of a product I have had absoutely no problem with in numerous calibers, and numerous weapons,( including select fires) I get interested as to WHY it failed in a similar firearm..(Might it occur to me? Am I buying diffrent lots of ammo? maybe it's the lubricants I use..)

Again, I invite anyone who has hard evidence, photographic, or casings from the weapon showing lacquer transfer to post images here.(Hell, mail em to me, with the circumstances surrounding the stoppage.My Email is not a secret, being in every post I make..)

Leave the rumors about this ammo at the gunshow..WHY does it fail in one, but not another near identical weapon, under similar conditions? Like I said, these are MACHINES. Let's find out what causes this..

With all the nice, large piccies of some tricked out AR's popping up on the General Discussion forum, it should be simple to take a shot of a lacquered up chamber..Had I a digital camera, I'd do it, if someone produced the fouled weapon.

Meplat-



What if I said:

Meplat- I've asked MANY times for someone to post pictures, of perfectly functioning flawless Wolf.

SO when I see posts that say "I never had a problem at all" with little info as to WHY there was no stoppage. Instead they primarily contain a blanket praise of a product I have had continual problems with in numerous calibers, and numerous weapons,( including select fires) I get interested as to WHY it works flawlessly in a similar firearm..(Might it occur to me? Am I buying diffrent lots of ammo? maybe it's the lubricants I use..)

Again, I invite anyone who has hard evidence, photographic, or casings from the weapon showing flawless function of Wolf to post images here.(Hell, mail em to me, with the circumstances surrounding the perfect session.My Email is not a secret, being in every post I make..)

Leave the rumors about this ammo at the gunshow..WHY does it work in one, but not another near identical weapon, under similar conditions? Like I said, these are MACHINES. Let's find out what causes this..

With all the nice, large piccies of some tricked out AR's popping up on the General Discussion forum, it should be simple to take a shot of a flawless case of Wolf..Had I a digital camera, I'd do it, if someone produced the perfect case.



Point being- some people have problems with Wolf. They are no less entitled to share that information with the community (which >I< for one really want to hear) than you are to make assertions (equally unsupported by evidence) that such malfunctions never happen.

[edited to point out that I'd like to see pictures of melted Wolf too so we could put them in the FAQ]
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 9:01:43 AM EDT
Tatjana -

I don't think you, Meplat, or myself are all that far off in our positions. We all just want to try to figure out why it works in some weapons and not in others. I think like Meplat, I've just seen so many posts that simply say "I tried Wolf and it sucks." with no further information or details whatsoever. Its hard to glean anythying even mildly instructive from such a statement, but it does usually set off a whole string of "Me too!" posts, again with little or no additional info. I'm happy to hear about people's problems with Wolf if they can provide some info on the conditions under which the problems occurred. Personally, I've never had a problem with it in .223, but most of my uppers are either Bushmaster or Colt. I've shot a lot more of wolf in 9mm and never had an ammo problem in any of my subguns.

I'd be glad to take you up on your offer (if that is indeed what you intended). I'm going shooting this weekend and will be using Wolf as usual. I don't have a digital camera, but I'll send you some fired cases, and all relevant info on the test weapon(s), lubricants, and cleaning solvents used. I'd even be glad to send a few loaded rounds from the same case so you can evaluate for laquer and case condition right from the box.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 4:24:54 PM EDT
ok, my .02 worth...

I used to split a case with a buddy of mine all the time. at one time, id have to say Ive fired 250 thru my Colt MT6601 chrome chamber(?)/ non-chrome barrel and 250 thru my BM shorty chrome chamber and chrome barrel. I have not had a problem. later on as I grew to shoot the shorty more, I have fired over 2000+ thru the shorty nd have not had a failure.

now I have a colt lower and a model-1 upper M4orgery. Non chrome barrel and possibly a non-chrome chamber...<can't tell if it is chrome>
I have fired just over 200+ thru this one and I have to say that after the first 50 rounds I have a fail to extract. I clear it out and it is good for another 50 rounds and I get another fail to extract. So that being said, it may be possible that the non-chrome chamber is the bogey-man here.

I just got my upper back from our man Kurt <KKF> and I plan on doing another test with the wolf ammo, I have replaced the extractor spring <just in case I had a weak spring> and I will monitor this.

It is funny tho... I see it about 50-50 on who liks wolf and who don't. Every time I walk into the Cheaper-N-Dirt store here in Ft. Worth they are sold out of Wolf...

I'll post a range report on this when I get more Wolf ammo.

Link Posted: 5/21/2002 5:30:17 PM EDT
I took the NIB bushy, not cleaned, just as it came from the dealer to the range with about 500 rounds of Barnaul 62 gr with witnesses, Campy, Plateshooter and Waldo. I managed to shoot about 130 rds with the time available. I fired a few slow fire, but mostly fast double taps rapid fire, the rifle got warm enough to smoke some of the preservative that was left on the barrel. No malfunctions, no excessive dirt or grime, good accuracy and pretty much a pleasant experience. Upon cleaning I found no excessive fouling, nor lacqer build up in the chamber or barrel.

I consider that there is some varience in QC proceedures in eastern Europe and there may be variences lot to lot. I am also well aware that each rifle is an individual, much like people, they have their likes and dislikes. My wallet is sure glad that my Bushy likes Barnaul.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 7:05:10 PM EDT
I use .223 Wolf for plinking. I've run 10k+ rounds thru my post-ban Bushmaster. It's very dirty ammo, but it hits the target and I've rarely had a failure using good USGI mags. The money I've saved over time could buy a new upper if I wanted but there isn't a need at the present time. I'll just keep pluggin away with it.

Not saying other people don't have problems, it's just my testimonial.

Now, if I had a pre-ban or other rare gun, that would be a different situation.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 7:20:07 PM EDT
Tatjana- Okay.. I'll need your mailing address, to mail the fired casings to.. Would you like the one I laid on a red hot stovetop to see if the "lacquer" melted as well?I can repeat this with others..
I also have access to a full shop, so would a few hit with an oxyacetylene cutting torch suffice? Unfortunately, the plasma cutter is down..(I doubt the steel casing would appreciate it anyhow..) I'm more than willing to cooperate to provide data..How many would you like? I'd happily pay shipping..

I'll borrow the shop digital, and see if I can get the vid camera as well..What number of rounds would be sufficient for a test?
What would be an acceceptable control ammo, and are there other brands you'd like tested?
I'll take records of the barrel temprature,(Via I/R thermometer, although I could back this up with a contact digital, and a conventional alcohol thermometer).

I can also perform a cook off test, and any other testing which I feel is neither unsafe, nor destructive to the weapon/weapons..Class threes will be out, this being a spur of the moment test. However, I'm certian I could arrange an in depth full auto testing of most of the Wolf brand ammo(5.56, 9X19, .45 ACP at least)..

I don't have a problem with people expressing an opinion, but I'd like it to be based with some presentable evidence(Especially when I hear the same "lacquer" thing popping up)..I'm willing to provide my evidence of it's reliability in my firearm..

I'm willing to meet on a weekend, with people having problems with this ammo, and see this lacquer buildup, and malfunctions first hand..Some video of the weapons cycling (or not) with it might have some clues..(Keep this distance reasonable if you take me up on it. I live in Prescott, Arizona..Ben Avery range would be very acceceptable..)

Seriously, I want to know why it does not work in some weapons..Not to troll, or bait..


(The reverse logic on my post was interesting..)

Meplat-



Link Posted: 5/21/2002 8:20:19 PM EDT
Using 55 grain, I've fired about 1650 rounds through my Bushy pre-ban, my AR-180B, Wife's Eagle pre-ban, and our Bushy dissipator with no problems... My 20 inch Bushy had problems at first but seems to have developed a taste for it after a couple of hundred rounds... Haven't tried the 62 grain yet (can't get it). Today I fired 150 rounds of the stuff I traded CJ for on Saturday through my pre-ban and dissipator with no malfunctions... Rifles are all different... My AR-10 is the finicky one... Though I may have solved that one by lightly polishing the chamber with 600 wet paper and gun oil...
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:42:48 AM EDT
My preban ST-prefix AR has a 5.56 marked barrel, and as I posted above, digests the Wolf and SA just fine. I fired off another 40 rounds of 55 gr. Wolf Monday evening without a hitch. Ditto for 50 rounds of SA and 30 rounds of 55 grain Olympic.

There has to be a reason(s) for the issue. The guys that have problems are having problems, no doubt in my mind. I had issues with Wolf .45 ACP not wanting to extract in my Colt Combat Commander. Fortunately I only had one box to work through. Despite that issue, I don't tar the .223, 9mm and 7.62x39 Wolf with the same brush. The 9mm worked exceptionally in my HS2000 (Springfield XD9 predecessor).

Food for thought: Using the "wide toleranced AK" theory, would the not-as-tight 5.56 chamber more readily digest the Wolf? Or is it a function of the expansion characteristics of the steel case vs. that of brass hulls in the (smoother or rougher) chambers of specific weapons?

Noah

Top Top