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Posted: 4/16/2002 2:24:39 PM EDT
Have you guys noticed that there are more prebans for sale now? I see a lot in the sale forum. I guess that's in anticipation of the AW ban sunseting in 2004.

I am a little concerned about this. There has been no mention of this on the news and I am curious to know what laws will be enacted in 2004. Could it be even worse then it was in 1994?

Should I sell my prebans? What do you think will happen? Will we see $5 30 round mags for the AR15?

Will those crappy Bushmater 10 rounder be worth .50?

Will our AR15's be allowed to have those so called assault weapon features?

Who knows?


Max
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 2:32:58 PM EDT
Kind of like the stock market---sell now? later? buy now? etc.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 3:01:04 PM EDT
If there's a new Ban - prices will skyrocket
again ( well that's if we can legally own
firearms at all by then )

If the Ban sunsets - all those prebans will
just be used rifles.

IMHO - only a sucker thinks a folding stock
and bayo lug make a rifle worth twice the price.

But like they say - there's one born every
minute.

Link Posted: 4/16/2002 3:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If there's a new Ban - prices will skyrocket
again ( well that's if we can legally own
firearms at all by then )

If the Ban sunsets - all those prebans will
just be used rifles.

IMHO - only a sucker thinks a folding stock
and bayo lug make a rifle worth twice the price.

But like they say - there's one born every
minute.


NOW NOW....be careful......we don`t want to upset the pre-ban groupies.......
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 3:49:31 PM EDT
Who know after 2004 there may be preban and pre-preban!
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 4:00:31 PM EDT
If they extend or make permanent the 1994 Crime Bill values will probably stay the same except for maybe a very brief spike from people who waited to buy a pre-pre-ban but then gave up. Depending on if they expand the ban pre-2nd-ban and pre-ban guns may increase in value. We're already at the edge of an AR-15 being legal as far as legal definition goes.

My larger concern is that they aren't able to renew it in 2004, so there is a wave of new stuff and then they manage to do it in 2005 or 2006 in whatever new form. Who knows what that will mean for post-bans that are converted, high cap magazines made, and for post-ban magazines that wind up in civilian hands in the interim.

The only thing we know for sure: criminals will not be impacted by whatever change occurs.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 4:15:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By takque:
The only thing we know for sure: criminals will not be impacted by whatever change occurs.



And that is the F'ed up part.
Always screwing the law abiding.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:00:27 PM EDT
first, lets not get into a cluster F*** argument about practicallity of prebans.

i dont think they are selling because of the possibility of a ban sunset. in fact, i belive anyone who thinks it will just sunset is freakin nuts. i belive it would be good to buy a few posties just before the "sunset" so when pistol grips and ability to accept hi cap mags is banned you will have some pre 2004 ARs. i have a bad feeling taht we might see single stack ars one day. when that happens i will be glad i have a prepreban
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:05:09 PM EDT
I had a good friend tell me one time do not sell your guns. so do not sell it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:54:12 PM EDT
In answer to your question I think guns are like any other valuable commodity. People buy them when they can afford them and sell them when they need cash. Pre - post, no real difference shooting one so no biggy other than collector value in downgrading.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:58:28 PM EDT
two words

TAX TIME!!!

you see sales drop back off in a month.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 6:06:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
In answer to your question I think guns are like any other valuable commodity. People buy them when they can afford them and sell them when they need cash. Pre - post, no real difference shooting one so no biggy other than collector value in downgrading.



Thats it right there I have one I try NOT to put up for sell every day for the last two weeks... not cause of the ban or no ban.... I simply need money.. plain and simple..
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 6:17:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2002 6:24:00 PM EDT by ThunderStick]
AKsRule,

I guess I'm a sucker. I bought my Colt Carbines in 1993 in advance of the AW ban (it was in the news in the fall of 1993). I paid $859 for my rifles(3). I sold them for $2100 each in 1999 during the Y2K stupidity.

I guess that makes me a wealthy sucker.

A postban rifle is much like a castrated bull. I would much rather have a preban that holds it's value and keeps all the evil features.

There is no market for postbans because you can find them anywhere NIB. That is why you see prebans for sale. They are harder to find. They are also a better investment.

The prebans that I have sold (Colt, Olympic, Bushmaster), have sold for MORE than I paid for them.

So, are you a gambling man? If the ban doesn't sunset, or the individual states pass even more restrictive laws (like California), then preban prices will remain strong, and will likely go higher. I am betting the politcos pass even more restrictive bans. If you think as I do, buy a preban.

P.S. I'm going to keep 2 or 3 prebans (gonna sell one or two more), but I sincerely hope that the AW Ban sunsets without any new ban enacted. Everyone should be able to enjoy flash suppressors and tele-stocks.

Link Posted: 4/16/2002 7:07:58 PM EDT

Will those crappy Bushmater 10 rounder be worth .50?


Hell, they're not even worth that now
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 7:23:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If there's a new Ban - prices will skyrocket
again ( well that's if we can legally own
firearms at all by then )

If the Ban sunsets - all those prebans will
just be used rifles.

IMHO - only a sucker thinks a folding stock
and bayo lug make a rifle worth twice the price.

But like they say - there's one born every
minute.


This from someone who obviously favors AKs. No need to come here trying to insult people.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:11:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:16:52 PM EDT
I just bought my first pre-ban on Saturday, the AW ban may sunset but another will just take its place a day or two before the current one ends, anyone know when they ever "relaxed" a gun law, if it has EVER happened? I say buy pre-ban's now, because if a new 10 year law goes into effect, the prices will go up
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:25:22 PM EDT
Keep in mind the political climate in 1993. Back then, there was a bad perception that firearms crime was out of control. Clinton stood behind the bill unlike any president in history AND statistics were not all that great for us. Now that the number of assault weapons has actually increased, the statistics are working in our favor, because not only are firearms crimes down, but the percentage of assault style weapons is significantly down. Now, the libs might think that works for them, but let me ask you something...can anyone for a moment actually believe that assault weapons were actually banned? When the issue comes back up and a repub senator stands up with a pre and a post ban and says that nothing really has changed except that criminals never used the gun in the first place, what public outcry will support another ban? Shit, most people think our guns WERE banned! As in, they thought they were taken out of our hands! Amazing.

I'll place my bet on a sunset! Those prebans will be worthless in 2004! The only (insignificant) question will be whether post bans can be retrofitted with the milspec stuff? Not like I'd put a bayo lug on my rifles, but a flash supp and a threaded barrel would be nice!
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:38:26 PM EDT
They are for sale because it is the hot item. People are willing to pay the price. Now you can sell a M4 preban and buy two posties.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 4:02:07 AM EDT
Gents

Thanks for the input. I love my prebans but you just can't tell what will the next law will be.

It is my personal feeling that we pass laws on emotion rather than common sense. Then again if common sense was common everyone would have some.

Oh well I rather be thought of as silly and have all my gear rather than be thought as smart and not have my firearms.



Max
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 5:04:10 AM EDT
One thing that you guys haven't discussed is that IF the ban sunsets in '04, the main impact
will be on domestically manufactured firearms.
The import EO ban from '89 will still be in
effect. There will never be anymore true HKs,
SIGs, Valmets, Galils, etc imported.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 5:30:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jodi:
One thing that you guys haven't discussed is that IF the ban sunsets in '04, the main impact
will be on domestically manufactured firearms.
The import EO ban from '89 will still be in
effect. There will never be anymore true HKs,
SIGs, Valmets, Galils, etc imported.



yes, and that's the biggest crime of all.
I will never get my phase/plasma rifle in a 40 watt range.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 5:32:29 AM EDT
Jodi - the ban WILL sunset in '04. That is the way the law is written.

It can, however, be replaced with something else.

Av.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:14:27 AM EDT
The ban will sunset, and I don't think it will be replaced. Moat of the people that passed that are gone. There are too many other things going on in the world now. More gun laws are just not popular now, and gun control advocates are loosing ground all over the place.

The only thing I see possible, is that they make a new magazine ban, but I still don't think this will even happen.

I have seen more pre-bans for sale now than I ever have. It would not surprise me that many people think the ban will go away and not be replaced, so they are selling the rifles while they are still worth the money. Around here, the prices for pre-bans are only a few hundred more than post-bans, at least in the AR world.

If you want to buy something to invest in, get a machine gun, because the chances of buying a new one are nil.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:38:14 AM EDT
I know a dealer who is currently clearing out all of his prebans at a considerable profit in anticipation of the ban ending. He also builds G3 clones, FN clones and ARs. If the Ban isn't replaced for even a few days, I imagine he will have more than replaced his preban stock with weapons he manufactured in the interim.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:49:31 AM EDT
i think saying a post ban rifle is like a castrated bull is well, BS.like a flash supressor and colapsable stock make a rifle somehow better is pretty silly.o yes i forgot you can have a bayonet lug to on a pre bad.o goody.
pre bans are higher priced only due to demand.if the ban gos away your so called investment will be kinda emronish.do you know how many ar-15/m-16s are in the world ???milloins and millions.nothing made in that kind of quanity can have collector value or real true value.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 7:06:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scooper:
i think saying a post ban rifle is like a castrated bull is well, BS.like a flash supressor and colapsable stock make a rifle somehow better is pretty silly.o yes i forgot you can have a bayonet lug to on a pre bad.o goody.
pre bans are higher priced only due to demand.if the ban gos away your so called investment will be kinda emronish.do you know how many ar-15/m-16s are in the world ???milloins and millions.nothing made in that kind of quanity can have collector value or real true value.

Link Posted: 4/17/2002 7:06:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scooper:
i think saying a post ban rifle is like a castrated bull is well, BS.like a flash supressor and colapsable stock make a rifle somehow better is pretty silly.o yes i forgot you can have a bayonet lug to on a pre bad.o goody.
pre bans are higher priced only due to demand.if the ban gos away your so called investment will be kinda emronish.do you know how many ar-15/m-16s are in the world ???milloins and millions.nothing made in that kind of quanity can have collector value or real true value.



In most instances yes, in some no:
- there will never be any more transferrable M16's
- there will never be any more SP1's
- there will never be any more of the 134 AR15-A3 Tactical's available (even with the ban lifted, no LEO like weapons will be sold to the public - my observation only - you will only be able to put pre-ban stuff on your post-ban)
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 7:37:23 AM EDT
Remember this though, even if the ban sunsets and nothing is put in its place there will never be another true AR15 marked rifle made. If you want to collect preban AR's for an investment then stay with Colt (AR15 marked). If you just want a preban go with the nicest one that you can find at a reasonable price. After 2004 all the bushy, oly, eagle, etc prebans might lose a lot of value, but true Colt AR's marked AR15 will always hold there value for collectors. just my $.02.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 7:59:44 AM EDT
I am also a sucker, I paid 995 for my like new Preban Bushy about 2 years ago... I have invested a total of 1450 bucks including the rifle, and it has an Acog,and KAC 600m FUS, m4 handgueards, a a trijicon front sight post, a 22lr conversion kit, about 12 USGI mags and a case. I don't regret it one bit... The acog was a freebie from another deal. New rifles were going for around 900 to 1000 bucks here at the time so I think I did fairly well.

I was almost suckered again last week into getting a Preban Colt marked AR-15 also for 995, but I took too long to collect the funds. DAmn!!!
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 8:20:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scooper:i think saying a post ban rifle is like a castrated bull is well, BS.like a flash supressor and colapsable stock make a rifle somehow better is pretty silly.o yes i forgot you can have a bayonet lug to on a pre bad.o goody.


I have to agree here... post-bans still shoot, right? What's the big deal? Maybe if you had a DIAS sitting around ready to go in your non-blocked lower, we might have something to talk about.


pre bans are higher priced only due to demand.if the ban gos away your so called investment will be kinda emronish.do you know how many ar-15/m-16s are in the world ???milloins and millions.nothing made in that kind of quanity can have collector value or real true value.


Many people used to think that way about the M1 Garand. How many millions were made? If you follow the market price for the M1 from the mid-80's to the present, I think you'd be surprised.

The great thing about the M1 is that for less than one car payment, civilians can own a rifle that not only has a lot of history behind it, but also could not be produced today in comparable quality for any price most of us would be willing to pay.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 8:44:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If there's a new Ban - prices will skyrocket
again ( well that's if we can legally own
firearms at all by then )

If the Ban sunsets - all those prebans will
just be used rifles.

IMHO - only a sucker thinks a folding stock
and bayo lug make a rifle worth twice the price.

But like they say - there's one born every
minute.


This from someone who obviously favors AKs. No need to come here trying to insult people.



Not to start an AK vs. AR battle, but how can someone seriously with a name of AKgimp or whatever, and dog on preban AR's. They are by far the "next step" for any AR enthusist.

If you can buy something for a pretty penny, and sell it for 2 pretty pennys, and still get your enjoyment out of it, how is that dumb?
People tat dog AR's and claim AK's, usally can't afford an post-ban AR, so they are really jealous of those who have Pre-ban's.

ThX for listening.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 9:44:53 AM EDT
Like others have said in this thread, I think its because of Tax season.
I just bought a pre ban colt from a guy and that was the reason he said he was selling it.
I see the availability come around again at Christmas time too.

Link Posted: 4/17/2002 10:50:31 AM EDT
Wow this is been the best tread on ARs I've read thus far.

I have a Colt SP1 for sale now, The only reason I'm considering selling is that it won't be enjoying it (hard to enjoy something you don't shoot much). I just bought the bushy varminter
and I can't seem to justify keeping them both. I've had this weapon for 18 years, its seems like a divorce to let it go, I don't know what to do, store or sell?

Anyway I'm not selling because of 2004, or tax time or any reason other than what's stated above. Also seems like people just want the lowers SP1 and part the rest of the gun, seems like a shame doesn't it?? Its a cool gun to part.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 11:53:28 AM EDT
Gents,

I just think it is interesting to see what motivates sellers. Let's see

1. Financial
2. Bored with it.
3. Getting out of guns.
4. Wife
5. Moving


My thoughts are keep your guns. Sell only if you absolutely have to. Give them to your children when they are of age.

Just some food for thought.




max
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 12:18:38 PM EDT
I think it largely because people now see its STUPID to pay all the extra $$$$ for a preban, and they are just going ahead and putting preban uppers with all the evil features on postban lowers. Then selling their preban lowers to people who will ultimately come to the same conclusion.

The 1994 Crime Bill created YET ANOTHER stupid law that gov't isn't enforcing.

No enforcment = people disregard the law.

And its a stupid law anyway.

Link Posted: 4/17/2002 1:58:53 PM EDT
can any one guide me towards all these pre bans ??

aaaaaaaaaaaaah..., that's pre bans by private individuals in Arizona that is...........


Link Posted: 4/17/2002 2:45:14 PM EDT
Hmm. . . I can't agree with the statement that a post-ban is as good as a pre-ban. Also, I cringe everytime someone say's all a pre-ban is is a post-ban that can accept a folding stock or flas surpressor.

I happen to want both those options, and they may be worth the extra $ to me. Also, that's not all you get. -With a pre-ban, you get the freedom to do ALMOST whatever the hell you want with your rifle. You still can't make it bigger than .50 caliber, but you can MG or SBR it with the $ and forms and parts. You can do whatever else to it you want.

Also, It's no just a flash hider you gain. What about a SOUND SURPRESSOR? For me, that's a big deal. Sure, I'd say f' a flash hider, if I could still put the surpressor on it.

I WILL NOT buy a post ban rifle that was ever made "pre-ban" I bought a USC, but there was never a pre-ban to get:-(.

Of course, you prob don't care about my opinion as I don't have a AR-15 at all, huh? Sigh -oh well. Someday(this summer???) I'll have my m16SP1, (with 2 uppers: the origional, and a m4 flattop style w/collapseable stock, and sound surpressor). -And you still won't agree with my opinion because I won't have an ar15, right?

Every now and then I get the urge to buy a pre-ban, but I keep refusing in order to save for the m16. I do have a .223 rifle though:-). -But it's based on AK action(because it's 1/2 as much as an AR, to help save for the m16), so. . . I guess you can label me an AK boy who can't have an opinion.:D.

He he. -Anyhow, no hard feeling towards you all, I just wanted you to know MY OPINION on the matter(s).

Also, to the origional post:

With all the layoff's, etc. I see around here, people are selling whatever will pay to keep food on the table. Someone might sell the post-ban 1st, because it's most replaceable, or means the least; but others will sell what they can get the most from, if they need all they can get.

-Justin
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 3:06:28 PM EDT
I own a couple of pre-bans and i could care less if they loose value if the ban truly sunsets and is not replaced. The return of some of our freedom is far more precious to me then money. I'll enjoy the rifles all the same.

I personally like the flash suppressor and the collapsible stock. no, they dont make it pretty, but they are usefull if you purchased your rifle for more reason then just plinking and target shooting. I consider mine to also fulfill the role of BOR insurance. They are also a way of saying screw your silly unconstitutional ban.


lib
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 3:14:00 PM EDT
Good,valid points by everyone,
I agree with Max.People buy/sell (their firearms) for many reasons.
I don't get a new rifle/pistol without having to sell one that I own, It's because the money's commited elsewhere As far as selling my preban blackrifle,I'd really hate to, I don't think there is going to be a Sunset only another ban.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 3:19:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Libertoon:
I own a couple of pre-bans and i could care less if they loose value if the ban truly sunsets and is not replaced. The return of some of our freedom is far more precious to me then money. I'll enjoy the rifles all the same.

I personally like the flash suppressor and the collapsible stock. no, they dont make it pretty, but they are usefull if you purchased your rifle for more reason then just plinking and target shooting. I consider mine to also fulfill the role of BOR insurance. They are also a way of saying screw your silly unconstitutional ban.


lib



Well put! I own a pre-ban too. Sure, I paid more for the pre-ban features, but I bet you guys that are knocking the pre-bans have paid for options on your car that I don't feel are worth it. It's all in a persons tastes.

Plus, I get a lot of satisfaction knowing I own something that the libs think sprays out millions of rounds a second that viciously slaughter innocent women and children indiscriminately.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 3:47:16 PM EDT
Can't believe it, no one mentioned the fact that at least 4 states (NY NJ CT CA) have enacted legislation mirroring the AW bill which don't expire. So if you live in NY NJ CT it is an excellent time to make that pre-ban purchase.

If the ban is affirmed prices will clearly sky-rocket, if it is sunset than pre-bans will be flooded into states which prohibit post-ban AWs.

Does anyone know wether there are any other states with regulations restricting evil features?
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 4:22:30 PM EDT
PerBan -vs- PostBan....Let's see now...I have a Preban Eagle Arms Car-15 M4 (Hard to guess, huh?) Do I have a bayonet? No. Am I worried about supressing my fire-flash? No. Do I like my collapsible stock ? Yes. ( Even though I shoot it with the stock fully extended anyway).Does MY AR-15 shoot any better than a PostBan? No.
It's like PreBan -vs- PostBan pistol magazine controversy...I have 15 rounders, 13 rounders, 12 rounders...Will I ever need MORE than a PostBan 10 rounder? I doubt it...
BUT,(There's always a but...), I like to think I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it...
Just some rambling on my part. Incidentally, I paid only $1000 for mine and it was never shot by the owner. I asked him why he was selling it, and he replied " Because April 15th is 2 only weeks away. And I owe Uncle Sugar."...LOL. I've owned it for 2 years, shot thousands of rounds through it and it has YET to act up on me. The same CAN be said for my friend that owns a PostBan Bushy. Go figure. I just got mine because I wanted one, got a good deal, and got the stock.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 4:22:44 PM EDT
The reason I sold all three of my preban rifles is the fact that I can pick up 6 rifles with the money that I got from them. The only thing I would like to have on a post ban AR that I can't is a flash-hider. Is it worth 800+ for it, No.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:22:01 PM EDT
I recently sold two Prebans. Why? Well I need the money for a Class 3 gun. I had the two prebans sitting in a safe doing nothing. Never shot them. Plus I think they will be a dime a dozen come the end of 2004.
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 6:11:30 AM EDT
Actually, Its just NYC and not the whole state of NY that has this legislation.

Originally Posted By Robertesq1:
Can't believe it, no one mentioned the fact that at least 4 states (NY NJ CT CA) have enacted legislation mirroring the AW bill which don't expire. So if you live in NY NJ CT it is an excellent time to make that pre-ban purchase.

If the ban is affirmed prices will clearly sky-rocket, if it is sunset than pre-bans will be flooded into states which prohibit post-ban AWs.

Does anyone know wether there are any other states with regulations restricting evil features?

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