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Posted: 4/7/2002 4:56:40 PM EDT
I have golden sabers in my 45's now but I would like to give the rangers a try but I see they are listed under the Law enforcement sales page on the winchester website, are civilians allowed to buy and own them? what do you guys think should I used these.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 5:22:18 PM EDT
They are not illegal for civilians to use and carry, posses, etc. They are just as effective as the HydraShok just not as proven. We are approved to carry the Wins or HydraShoks in 45acp. I don't feel under armed with either.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 5:28:07 PM EDT
I don't know nothing, but here goes: My understanding is that the Winchester Ranger is the Black Talon under a different name, and is LEO-only. The SXT is supposed to be the "civilian" version of the Black Talon. I use the Winchester SXT's in my Springfield Champion .45, and have had no ftf/fte, etc.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 5:47:14 PM EDT
Oh so I have to get the Winchester sxt how are they different from the rangers?
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 6:03:03 PM EDT
Let's not get confused here.

There are three "LE Only" (which doesn't mean non-LE can't have them) loads.

Black Talon-Black slug brass case. Public and LE sales.

Winchester Ranger SXT (Black Talon under a different name; there were also some called "Ranger Talon" for a while, but they were the same thing). These had the same appearance as Black Talons. Available for general sale to LE only.

Winchester Ranger SXT, T-Series. Improved Ranger round, with better penetration through autobodies and glass (responding to real life LE shootings) and more reliable expansion (again in response to LE shootings). AGain, this round is sold to LE agencies, individual officers and LE distributors, but you can find it easily enough.

My experience? It shoots well. It won't penetrate body armor. It will go through sheet rock (personal experience and a bad day at work). I also have personal knowledge of one shooting with it; it resulted in immediate incapacitation.


Link Posted: 4/7/2002 6:28:56 PM EDT
So why are they specified for LEO if the public can have them, and does anyone have a online source for purchasing this ammo?
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 6:29:48 PM EDT
I had to shop around alittle but I found some Win STXs and did some expansion tests in wet phone books. The three different loads I used were the Win Ranger in the box marked LEO. The box was the tan and blue and the round was the black coated bullet in a brass case. This round expanded exactly like the orginal Black Talon, very impressive. The second round was not marked LEO and was in a white box with black print. This bullet was uncoated so it was a copper bullet in a silver case. These round expanded exactly the same as the previous it just wasn't black. The last round is the one marketed towards the civillian market and comes in a clear plastic box of 20. The bullet is copper and the case is silver. These expanded the same except Win has clipped the "talons" off of these rounds, not nearly as "evil" looking but still very good expansion. The first two were in boxes of 50.
BTW these test were all done in 9mm but when I bought the rounds they also had 45 in the same types. I even went to one shop that wouldn't sell me the Rangers with out department letter head. I told them that these rounds weren't restricted and they said that they knew this and just chose not to sell them to the general public. My .02
~Bill
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