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Posted: 4/4/2002 5:00:32 AM EDT
How can he ask you may think ?

the deal is.....

I was going to trade my Steyr AUG-P for an Oly Arms CAR-15LE (the only AR you can get at the moment in Holland).

But after reading several forums I am starting to doubt my choice.

I noticed most people don't give OA a thumbs-up.

Am I better of with my AUG or .........?
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:13:30 AM EDT
IMHO: The AUG is a beter weapon then ANY of the AR-15 family, so in that respect I am biased.

But if you really want and AR, I know alot of people who have Oly's and love them so it comes down to personal prefrence. If it were me, I would just get a different barrel for the AUG, or a 9mm conversion, round out that gun.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:16:15 AM EDT
I have both. I prefer the AUG. I would hang on to the AUG and save up for an AR.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:29:28 AM EDT
In my limited experiences with and observations of the AUG, I haven't found them to be any more reliable or accurate than any of my Colt ARs. That being said, even if they were of equal value, I would probably not trade an AUG for an Olympic Arms AR.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:41:27 AM EDT
I am a happy Oly K4B owner, and I wouldn't trade it ofr any AUG. That said, I love the AUG also. If I can suggest, save and wait until you can add an AR to your collection. Don't sell your AUG...
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:16:11 PM EDT
Dianick,

Maybe you could expand on firearms availability and pricing in Holland.

For example, and REAL Aug (i.e. flash suppressor, preban) costs over $3000 in the USA while an OA AR15 CAR15 can be had for a fraction of that. A straight up swap would be insane.

But I suspect there are more AUGs and fewer CAR15s in Holland.

Maybe if you expand better opinions can be offered.

For what it is worth, I have an AUG (yes, a real one) and several AR15s in various configurations.

I don't shoot the AUG much. It is simply worth too much and spare parts are much more expensive than for ARs. But,

AUG
Pros - intuitive shooting, reliable as hell, shoots any 223 ammo I put in it.
Cons - very expensive in the US. Magazines very expensive (about $60-75 each) Can't mount choice of optics (I have A2 version)

AR15
Pros - inexpensive, reliable (with good mags), very customizable, cheap parts
Cons - can be troublesome feeding with different mags and ammo. In truth with experience not a big problem.

James
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:44:25 PM EDT
Keep your AUG. Well that's what I would do, that is because I live in the US. In Holland, I have no clue.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 1:36:42 PM EDT
What are the Gun laws like in Holland Dianick? What restrictions are placed on ownership?
What does an AUG or an AR cost in US dollars?


curious lib
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:14:11 PM EDT
That's a real toughie. I would go with the AUG. I had play with the AUG a lot. I am used to the unusal features on the rifle and have no problems with it when putting it thru its paces.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:34:19 PM EDT
even if they are the same price over thier, the aug is better quality than the OLY.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:42:06 PM EDT
Get a SIG 550 or PE90, if thats not possible, stick with the Aug and save up for the AR.

Is the oly the only one available right now in holland because of the US stupid export laws?
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:48:44 PM EDT
Well, if we're having a full-out AUG vs. AR15 battle, I would have to chime in and say the AUG isn't nearly as accurate as a customized AR15, no matter what you do with it.

However, this isn't a "battle of guns", nor are we talking about Match Rifle configurations. Your AUG might be, and probably is, more accurate than a carbine-sized AR15. Granted, the AR15 might be a "commodity" in Holland, but the AUG is mighty expensive here in the states. I have no clue if U.S. military rifles abroad are as expensive as foreign military rifles in the U.S. - you would know better than me.

I was once biased to the Oly, but it was merely conformist to the popular belief. After I did some research, I found that they are really a decent rifle - but have simply had a bad reputation in a select following.

All things being equal, my choice goes with the AUG. It's probably the most accurate and reliable carbine/bullpup in the world, with the CAR-15 in a close 2nd.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 9:43:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 10:27:24 PM EDT by Bollocks]
Hallo Nick,

Actually I have to agree with what has been said earlier: if possible just get that AR15 as an extra rifle and keep the AUG.

If not, please think for what discipline you want use the rifle (if any). Personally I own an AUG, SIG PE90 and an AR15 with several uppers and found that the only discipline were the AUG is really useable in action shooting, but here is also where it really shines. Of course you can equal it with an AR15 variant like the one you have your eye on, but one can feel when shooting the AUG this way that it's really desinged for this stuff. On the other hand, it is not very well suited for accuracy stuff, mainly due to the large donut reticle that will dwarf a 100 meter matchtarget. But I have the A1 version with the fixed scope. If you purchase the A2 you can mount any optic you prefer. And I also firmly believe that the average AUG is a 1MOA shooter. A good (standard)AR15 carbine should be just as accurate, I don't see any big differences here.

An SIG PE90 or 551 is also a very good choice and these are extremely well build rifles but I don't feel the superior quality is worth nearly 1000 EURO's price difference. And besides that, new 20 or 30 rounds mags are around 50-60 EURO a piece. And if you want other SIG accesoiries you better bring your creditcard as well.

Anyway, the AR15 has a number of advantages if you want to shoot other disciplines than actionshooting. And besides that the accesoiries are reasonably priced, like scopemounts, mags and so on. I pay around 10 EURO for a good surplus GI 30 rounder locally.

Anyway, to get back to my point. If possible keep the AUG and get the AR as well (because you will be sorry otherwise) but if finances do not permit this than think of what you want to use the rifle for. For actionshooting both will do fine (but I give the AUG a small edge here), but if you want to be more flexible than I'd get the AR myself.

ps. I don't have any experiences with Oly arms AR's so I can't comment on the quality.

ps2. I believe that Kuiper in Blijham who imports DPMS recently recieved a shipment and has several variants in stock at the moment. Give him a call.

Good luck,
RG.nl
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 12:14:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Libertoon:
What are the Gun laws like in Holland Dianick? What restrictions are placed on ownership?
What does an AUG or an AR cost in US dollars?


curious lib



I Holland you can get a gun permit for up to 5 weapons. Only after you....

have been a member of a shootingclub for at least a year, then you can buy a weapon and apply for a gun permit.

After the purchase of your first weapon, you have to wait for another year to buy a second.
After the mandatory 1 year you can buy 4 more (all at once, if you like).

Also you can ONLY use the weapon for sporting purposes. Selfdefence use is a BIG no no.

Expect to pay for an AUG (depending on what variation you want) around $ 1500,- USD. An AR starts with Oly Arms ( about the only one available at the moment in Holland) at around $ 1100,- USD. and going up if you can find anything else at all. that being a Bushmaster, Colt, ArmaLite or what ever.

Cheers
Nick
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 12:24:34 PM EDT
Hi,
I have both,see here the pro & cons:

AUG pro
---------
more accurate than than my Colt M4 and AR15A2 sporter lightweight.
Easier to clean.

AUG cons
---------
Heavier than the M4 & AR15A2
No modular design ( no RAS / RIS / SIR ).
Very hard to make a quick mags change.
No BUIS.
No Sta.N.Ag. mags.
No hold open.
No aftermarket accessories.

I like to have both but my preferred one is my M4 MWS ,you bet .

(Here in Italy they have almost the same retail price.)

Note:

PaoloAR15,
No flame here , I do not write this to disappoint or hurt you but you do NOT have an Oly , you have just an Oly "ghost" .

The ATP ( italian "Oly" importer ) buy their Oly rifles in Belgium , from an European assembler that buy the Oly lowers and anonimous spare parts from an Indiana dealer , so ATP cannot give you any real Oly guarantee on yr K4B.

If you want a proof of what I write , please , write to the Oly customer service , give them your rifle's number and just read their answer.

It's sad but this is the true.

And , believe me here , do not compare your "Oly" rifle quality to any AUG rifles , the AUG's quality is outstanding.

Dianick,
if you decide to gen an Oly , be sure it is an original Oly , and not a clone , even if I'd keep the AUG and wait the right time to but a Colt or a Bushmaster hardware.

Just my 0.2 Eurocents,

ciao,
PP out
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:32:42 AM EDT
Hi All,

First of all thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I think I'll hang on to my AUG and save up for an AR as extra gun.

I still like the AR15 M4 Carbine setup and what you can add to the rifle (I'm a bit of a goodies freak), Also I like the image the M4 has but that may be due to too much watching "combat mission" and "Blackhawk down" or playing to much "Ghost recon" for that matter.

Again, Thanks to all for your input.

Regards
Nick

P.S. For all who cares to know, this is the hardware I have at the moment. (keep in mind that you are only allowed 5 guns in Holland)

M14
Steyr SSG69
Steyr AUG-P
Glock 17

Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:00:57 AM EDT
WOW!! $1500 for a AUG over there. I wish I could trade you a nice AR for one!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 3:59:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PincoPalla:
PaoloAR15,
No flame here , I do not write this to disappoint or hurt you but you do NOT have an Oly , you have just an Oly "ghost" .

The ATP ( italian "Oly" importer ) buy their Oly rifles in Belgium , from an European assembler that buy the Oly lowers and anonimous spare parts from an Indiana dealer , so ATP cannot give you any real Oly guarantee on yr K4B.

If you want a proof of what I write , please , write to the Oly customer service , give them your rifle's number and just read their answer.

It's sad but this is the true.

And , believe me here , do not compare your "Oly" rifle quality to any AUG rifles , the AUG's quality is outstanding.



Your right,

I just got back from my armsdealer and he got the Oly Arms this morning trough the mail from Belgium.

Seems the Oly importer makes a partsgun.

It had a US-postban lower (cast) receiver. It had the PCR markings and not the usual LE and export only markings on the right side of the receiver.

The upper was a US-preban with Bayo-lug and flashhider. The front sight was damaged, I guess due to rough handeling.

And to top it off there was a Canadian Diemaco magazine with it. The mag was damaged and had been used intensively. ( the Dutch army has Diemaco C7 and C8 rifles, I think this was a Dutch surplus magazine.)

So like you warned me this was NO original CAR-15LE (K4B). But a rifle made up from parts, and not done very nicely, I might add.

I just wonder if Olympic Arms knows about the way the Belgian importer does business.

My AUG is here to stay, and I will probably get an AR as an extra rifle sometime in the future.

That being a Bushmaster, Colt or ArmaLite.

Thanks again for your input, everyone.

Regards
Nick
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:44:35 AM EDT
Dianick, have you done business with the company J.F.Y, if so, any news on when they are getting Bushmaster rifles/carbines.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 10:37:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tuukka:
Dianick, have you done business with the company J.F.Y, if so, any news on when they are getting Bushmaster rifles/carbines.



Hi Tuukka,

JFY does not do business with private people. On the other hand, I heared from my armsdealer that getting Bushmasters is a BIG problem.
(I was interested in one also, but as you can see the only AR in Holland at the moment is Olympic Arms, or better, something that is supposed to be an OA)

He gets them through JFY and is having a hard time getting hold of them.

If you want I'll look up the address and phonenumber of JFY.

(didn't know they also dealed with Finland)

regards
Nick
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