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Posted: 4/2/2002 1:42:36 PM EDT
Hi all,

I live in Holland and am getting an Oly Arms CAR-15LE. The Law Enforcement / Export version with Bayo-lug and Flashhider.

Now my question is if I can let my armorar shorten the barrel by 1,5" so I get the M4 length of 14,5".

Can he simply saw it off and refit the flashhider, or is it a no go. (there is no legal hassle, we can have 11" barrels if we like, so that's no problem).
I only would like to know if there would be any technical problems. the twist of the barrel is 1:9 and I would be shooting Dutch MOD ammo (NATO spec.) and some cheaper 52grn ammo.

Any thought would be welcome

Thanks
Nick
The Netherlands
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 1:48:19 PM EDT
Why not just get an M4 upper and keep yours the same, if you see benefit of a shorter barrel and the M203 step down cut?
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 1:52:23 PM EDT
Should not be a problem at all. You may have to increase the gas port hole a bit, but that isn't much of a problem.

The 16" guns actually have quite a bit more dwell time (port to muzzle) than a 20" gun. On a 20" barrel the port is at the 13" position leaving 7" of dwell and the bullet is moving a bit faster which reduces your dwell time even further than the 16" gun. On a 16" barrel, your port is at the 7" position, giving you 9" of dwell time. If you crop the barrel to 14.5 you will end up with 7.5" of dwell and with the lower bullet speed of the barrel, your actual dwell time is still better than a factory 20" gun.

Link Posted: 4/2/2002 1:54:37 PM EDT
It's VERY hard to get just another upper shipped to Holland. I am Glad to have obtained an AR at all.

At the moment Olympic Arms is the only AR that you can get at the moment.

For instance a Bushmaster would take 6 months +, to get here AND pay the equivalent of about $ 1500,- US for the cheapest version.

So I would really like to alter the length of the barrel.

Thanks
Nick
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:09:47 PM EDT
Nick,
technically you can have a gunsmith cut and re-crown your barrel and the barrel will be fine. I don't know about the gas system for sure but do know that too is solvable.

However, you're going to reduce your MV to the point where if you ever needed to really take down a target your effective range is likely to less than 100 meters.

If you want max look and cool cut the barrel. If you want a fairly effective carbine leave the barrel at 16". (At 16" you're only two inches too short. Or maybe I should say the barrel is only two inches too short !)
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:17:54 PM EDT
I would not do it. Oh yes, a gunsmith (who is experienced with ARs) can do this for you, but WHY? That additional 1.5" of barrel coming off will cost you BIG TIME in muzzle velocity. The biggest asset (really, the only one) that the 5.56 cartridge has is VELOCITY. By going with the recent fad of reducing barrel length, you are greatly reducing the effectiveness of your carbine past 60 yards. That is why the stories of ineffective results reported from Somalia by some of our soldiers--they were also using a 14.5" barrel carbine, with M855/SS109, which gives you the worst case scenario of 60 yards.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:36:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2002 3:38:08 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Please tell me Nick,can a citizen/legal alien buy an AR or an AK in the NLD? or do you have to be LEO? I was thinking about staying some place long term in Europe(for personal reasons)and I was considering Switzerland becuase of how decent thier gun laws are.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:55:36 AM EDT
Switzerland is your best bet for good gunlaws.

In Holland you have to become a member of a shootingclub first. And after a year you are allowed to get a gun.

With a maximum of 5 weapons. 1 year waiting period after your first weapon. After that you can buy another 4 at once.

I am in the dutch military and also a member of a military shootingclub. However, no extra privilages are given and the waiting period is the same as for civilians.

I dont know what the law for weapons is in switzerland for foreigners. But Swiss citizens can have almost everything, I beleive there is just a waiting periode for full-auto.

Hope this info is any help.

Regards
Nick
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:07:17 AM EDT
Unless you have a very specific need, I would not do it. I love my AR's but when you start shooting barrels less than 16 inches be prepared for a ball of fire. IMHO.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 9:20:30 AM EDT
14.5-inch barrel is the minimum effective length of the AR for a combat carbine, everything below that is used for close combat. It’s not that much of a difference in length from the 16-inch, check out these pictures – courtesy Bushmaster.com






- Sulaco
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 9:37:34 AM EDT
My ONLY concern in doing this would be the effect it would have on the chrome lining in the bore (Assuming yours has it. Olympic Arms generally does not use chrome lined barrels, but their LE rifles may be an exception). In the past there have been reports of people cutting down chrome lined barrels and then the chrome starts to flake off from the cut back. Otherwise, any competent gunsmith could cut down barrel, recrown it, and rethread it.

Personally, I really like and prefer the 14.5" barrel over the 16" barrel. It offer a better degree of compactness, seems to balance much better in my hands, and just handles better, in my opinion.

Previous replies in this thread are greatly exaggerating the effect that an inch and a half of barrel length will have on velocity. I doubt any of them would stand still long enough to let me shoot them with my 14.5" M4 at 200 yards. The United States military uses the 14.5" barreled M4s in quite appreciable numbers with very good results. That says enough for me.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 9:54:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 10:22:05 AM EDT by sulaco]
This info could be off but this is what I found when I did a search for it.
- Sulaco

barrel, volocity, differance, % Diff from a 20" barrel
11.5" 2872 fps 387fps 12%
14.5" 3064 fps 195fps 6%
16" 3132 fps 127fps 4%
20" 3259 fps

personal.cfw.com/~hayslett/bushfaq.htm

Edited to ask: Can anyone tell me how to format this information so that you can ready it better?
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:12:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomer:
My ONLY concern in doing this would be the effect it would have on the chrome lining in the bore (Assuming yours has it. Olympic Arms generally does not use chrome lined barrels, but their LE rifles may be an exception).



I believe the CAR-15LE has a stainless barrel
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