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Posted: 3/25/2002 7:30:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2002 6:28:23 PM EDT by BBURN]
Originally, I ordered this Romanian AK because I was told by two different reps on two different days that it was a SAR-1. In another post below I've explained that I received a WASR-10 instead of a SAR-1 and I'm really needing advice on whether to keep it or not! Please help!!!


Original post:

My FFL's dealer cost is $280 plus his fee and tax. I think it'll be a good deal for me. I'm trying to expand my tiny collection in various ways and get the so called "assault rifle" collection together in case we lose the Presidency again and hi-cap semi's get outlawed all together. (no I don't plan on sitting around and letting it happen!) I'd kind of like to have at least one of each if you know what I mean. I have AR's, and SKS's and now I want an AK, FAL, etc.

Do any of you have a SAR-1 from S.O.G.? I have confirmed that these are N.I.B. 2001 models so hopefully a canted front sight won't be an issue. Let me know in a hurry if you have any info I should know about. My FFL will be ordering it today or tomorrow.

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 7:43:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 8:09:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2002 8:11:55 AM EDT by FullMetalJacko]
Good choice,cheap rifles. As soon as I get a upper, I'm gonna save up for one, unless I enlist before. Enjoy it.

Edited cuz I didn't fully read the post. DOH!

Yeah i want a Fal too, but I want an Israel Heavy barrel.
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 8:46:12 AM EDT
What is this S.O.G.? Do they have a web site?
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 9:07:50 AM EDT
SOG international inc No website PH#513-9328928
They post a lot of sales in the Shotgun news
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 9:14:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 9:19:49 AM EDT
So SOG only carries the 2001 models- does this mean all the ones they sell no longer have the risk on canted sights? I wanted to get one- the price is right but was worried I would get one with sh^&ty sights- should I be concerned or is there anything to do to prevent this?

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 10:51:36 AM EDT
BBURN:

A few friends and I just received 3 SAR1s from SOG through an FFL dealer. If you order 3 they cut you a deal. They are all 2001 models. The rifles don't seem to have canted sights. They each came with one 10 round mag and one 40 round mag. When they shipped the rifles they positioned the 40 round mag next to the rifle stock. The mag and the rifle rubbed against each other during shipment and the sharp edges of the mag cut through the paper wrap and cut grooves into the stocks of all 3 rifles. No big deal, I guess, but could have been easily avoided by better packaging. Haven't had a chance to test fire them yet. Last I heard SOG is out of stock on the SAR1s. J&G Sales still has them, I think. Slightly more expensive there.
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 11:32:48 AM EDT
I looked at the sight and i saw in the product number WUM.. did you talk to them about it? Cuz wum's are usually better quality BUT unless converted they only except single stack low-cap mags. That's why the price is so low.. DOH! SAR-1's are now at the $300 price. *sigh*
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 11:39:15 AM EDT
I think the SOG SAR-1's are pretty nice. They come with a 40 rd. mag, another hunting capacity mag, sling, manuals, all kinds of goodies. And the price is right. No canted sights on the 2001 model I saw. And the wood smells great! Like a newly varnished floor in a gymnasium! I think the SAR-1 is a good choice for a cheaper rifle.
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 11:40:21 AM EDT
www.aimsurplus has them for $299
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 12:26:58 PM EDT
Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone! No one really had anything negative to say so I guess I'm feeling pretty good about this whole deal for now. I'm a little anxious to see the condition of it when it comes in. Hopefully, it won't be scratched like psyop said his was. Actually, I would most likely refinish the stock no matter what, but I'm leaning more toward the Bulgarian or U.S. black synthetic stock anyway.

FullMetalJacko, I did talk to a rep this morning and I was told that they are SAR-1's with the 2001 stamp on them. I wondered about the WUM in the part number but they said it is a SAR-1 and the advertisement says hi-cap's fit so I guess I'll just wait and see when it comes in.

Okay, you got me worried so I called a second time just now. A second rep cofirmed for me that it is in fact a SAR-1 and that the WUM designation in the product number doesn't mean anything. She said that they are in stock and that it would arrive here in Arkansas in approximately 3-4 days after the order is placed.

My trigger finger is already starting to twitch! I feel a bump fire session coming on!!!

Thanks again everyone,

BBURN

Link Posted: 3/25/2002 12:38:20 PM EDT
sweet deal. Is that a 20 rounder in the pic? Good to see that SAR-1's are back down in price.. now only if they had Sar-2's back, i regret selling mine.. *Sigh* Live and learn.
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 12:39:29 PM EDT
Well, at $279 each, you cant go wrong.

These were unavailable for some time, and if you can get one or many at that price, do it!

I have a 2001 SAR-1, great rifle. No issues other than trigger slap, and that is easily fixed.

I highly recommend the Kvar-corp USA made synthetic stock sets. They require a little fitting, but looks and work great!

I refinished my Romainian wodd set, and was happy, but the Kvar set gave me a longer buttstock (needed) and it is lighter, and easier to grip.... and looks great!
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 7:13:44 PM EDT
FALARAK, I've seen those K-VAR stock sets before. I remember being pretty impressed with their products. Does their buttstock have a groove in the side like some I've seen or is it flat-sided? I've always hated the thought of paying that kind of money for pieces of plastic, but I guess thats just the way it is! You're right it looks great and will be totally worth it.

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 9:01:07 PM EDT
I've heard the '01's didnt have that bad of wood, check out the earlier ones if ya wanna see nasty wood. Personally I dont like plastic Ak's.. but that's just me.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 4:13:42 AM EDT
That is a great price for a great rifle. Sure you won't win any matches but it is reliable and rugged and fairly accurate.

I prefer the Romanian SAR over the Maadi postban I got. Man that is one ugly rifle.

Max
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:06:32 AM EDT
For the money, SAR-1's are a great deal.

They're not pretty, not accurate, but as long as you understand that and realize that IT IS an AK then I don't think you'll be disapointed.

These things are cheap to shoot, fun to shoot, and extremely reliable. Plus it will help round out your collection.

No man should be without an AK.

And yes that's a good price on one.

Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:45:40 AM EDT
BBURN check this site out. Lota of good info on all AKs.

nothingbutguns.com
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 10:07:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 10:16:14 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By BBURN:
FALARAK, I've seen those K-VAR stock sets before. I remember being pretty impressed with their products. Does their buttstock have a groove in the side like some I've seen or is it flat-sided? BBURN



It's grooved, just like the Bulgarian plastic.

Here is a pic:

Great stuff. Worth the $85 in my book.

www.k-varcorp.com

My 2001 wood was UGLY. LOADS of lacquer on it. A decent stripper works well, with several applications. If you check out the AK side of the board, I posted pics of my wood refinishing.

However, once I got a Kvar set, I would not use anything else. These rifles benefit from the wieght reduction, and the added buttstock length.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 11:38:11 AM EDT
bought one about a little over a year ago, shoots great and its one of the one's that I will not sell. before I fired it bought the front sight tool vise thingy and bought the metal rear adjustible sight. put everything on it aligned the sights front and rear took it to the range and about 2" high and 2" to the left a couple quick clics on the adjustible rear sight and presto it was right there.
so eats up the ammo and loves that cheap wolf ammo.
I also regret not getting a sar-2 and if I see one for a decent price I will grab one, I hope they bring it back for a little while so I can get one this time around.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:39:25 PM EDT
I paid 350.00 for mine at a gun show,took it home threw it in the dirt flopped it around a couple of times in the dirt and my buddy said what the hell are you doing. I then took it to the range with new russian surplus ammo and shot at the 100 meter metal silhouette and couldn't believe the sights were right on. then 200 and 300 and 400 I just kept moving the ladder sight to the meters that I was shooting at.The true test was at 500 meters. I moved the ladder sight to 500 and squeezed a round off "DING' was the sound as the round smashed into the metal silhoutte.My buddy the same guy who watched me abuse this same gun in the dirt not more than 20 minutes ago said "I'll give you 100.00 over what you paid for this gun.I still have the gun and it has never given me any problems. Although I did finally clean it before putting it in the safe.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:19:01 PM EDT
BTW, I just got one of those K-VAR US made polymer stock sets and they are awesome.

I just got a Romanian AK74 and swapped out the thumbhole stock with the K-VAR stock. It fit great. I had to do VERY little fitting. It looks even better in person than in photographs too. Definetaly a good buy if you ask me.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 3:49:27 AM EDT
Gee, I guess I'll be the only voice of gloom and doom here.
With the SAR, it is never a good idea to buy "sight-unseen".
Got mine from J&G, about 6 months ago.
It had canted sights, the gas tube lever was bent so badly that it snapped when I tried to straighten it, and the trigger slap was brutal.

If you feel it worth these risks to save the $50-100, then go for it.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 9:34:35 AM EDT
I just dropped my MO in the mail for A NIB SAR-1 w/ 3 -4ord mags for 359 delivered from the guy on gunbroker. He said there would be no canted sights and he stands behind his deals. Has good feedback- we will see.

For the price it is a nice addition to my collection. Now when me and my friends go shooting there will be no fighting over the one assault rifle ;).
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 5:54:06 PM EDT
Well, sh*t!!!

I called S.O.G. twice this week to ask several questions about this rifle so I could tell my FFL to hold off if I needed to. I specifically asked two different sales reps on two seperate occasions, "Is this a SAR-1?" They said yes both times. Well, I pick it up today and it is a WASR-10 hogged out from it's single stack days into a double stack. I am not happy to say the least!

I've read in a few places that some actually have both and they prefer their WASR-10 over their SAR-1. What do you guys think? I'm a little pissed because I hate being misled or dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about whichever case may have happened here. We bought it from S.O.G. but the rifle was in a CENTURY INTERNATIONAL box. It came with a SAR-1 manual but the receiver is clearly marked WASR-10. Also, the front sight is slightly canted to the left. Finally, after all this B.S., they didn't pack the 10 round mag in the box. I only received the 40 round mag. ARGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would you do? I've haven't contacted them to give them a piece of my mind yet. I thought I would call upon the great pool of wisdom and experience before I made any moves. I don't want to be stupid about it. If the WASR-10 is just as good or better than a SAR-1 then I should just get over it and be happy.

All advice appreciated!

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 5:58:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 6:23:08 PM EDT
Well, I'm not trying to bad mouth S.O.G. just yet, but I sure wish they would have given me the correct information. It might not have been an issue as long as I knew what I was getting up front! I keep reading that people really like their WASR-10 rifles, so maybe this is not a big deal. I'd like some opinions from people who have had both rifles!

Anyone?

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 7:55:07 PM EDT
bburn i bought a sar-1 millium 2000 , but iam thinking mine was 412.00 after taxes. but it came with scope rails on its side,the only stamped into the reciever is mil-2000 the rest of the reciver is etched(very very poorly)with engraving pen. The only difference i have heard is that one was made to take a double stacked mag,and the other was modified to take the double stacked mag! I don't know what you can do about the cantered front site,but if it came with the scope rails a cheap ar/type (65.00)ultralux 4-power riflescope for the colt ar would get you on sight even if you did nothing to the front site! But i agree you shouldn't have to do this! A deal ain't a deal till both parties are satisfied! I really like my ak, when i go shooting i can't hardly get anybody to try my bushy, and can hardly pry them off that sar! Go fiqure? best of luck for you. bob cole
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 8:13:54 PM EDT
Thanks bobbyjack,

Mine has the side scope rail and the military, pistol grip style furniture also. It is like a SAR-1 in most every way, but that doesn't make me feel better. I still feel like I got screwed a little bit.

I just need my fears calmed a little bit I guess. Everyone seems to indicate that this will be a good gun for me once I get it broke in a little.

Or, maybe I need everyone to tell me it is a piece of crap and that I need to send it back!

I've got to make a decision!

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 8:28:16 PM EDT
BBurn, chill out man. Check out the AK side of the board. Especially the Romanian Forum. I think you will find your answer there.
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 8:47:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2002 8:50:06 PM EDT
ppcshooter can you give bburn a red lettered post to get to the ak forum, as i bookmarked mine and things have changed somehow hard to get there, hell i miss lordtraders posts! thanx bob cole bburn shoot it youll like it! bob cole
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 5:23:45 AM EDT
www.gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=77 will have everything you wanna know.

I got a WASR thinking I was getting a SAR. At first I was pissed, but I shot it and it works fine. The difference is the WASR was designed to be all-Romanian and still legal, so it takes only 10 round magazines. Then someone got the brilliant idea to install U.S. parts so that 30 round mags could be used. The receiver lacks the "dimples" that stabilize the 30 round mag, so the importer welded small steel plates to the interior of the receiver where the dimples were supposed to be. Also the trunion had to be further machined to accommodate the 30 round mags. On mine at least, they didn't bother refinishing it.

Anyway, the rifle shoots and works fine, I only have about 200 rounds through it but it has been trouble free. I was concerned at first I should get a "real" SAR, but no worries.
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 10:15:55 AM EDT
You got Sogged! Hee hee
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 11:34:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 12:26:57 PM EDT
Thanks, for the replies everyone! I still haven't made up my mind yet, but I'm leaning toward just keeping it. Almost everyone is telling me that the SAR-1 and WASR-10 hi-cap are virtually identical or equal. I'm definitely going to call SOG and listen to what they have to say about it and get the other mag they owe me at the very least.

I put 100 rounds through it this morning and it actually shot very well. It was right on at 25 yards but too high at 100 yards. It functioned perfectly and was very fun to shoot of course. Those are the positives.

The negatives are:

1) Canted front sight base. Not a big deal but I am somewhat picky. It doesn't look good and the sight post has to be way over to one side to compensate for it.

2) Mag wobble. I understand that any and all AK's can have this problem and that it is often the mag and not the rifle.

3) Missing mag they didn't ship.

4) Trigger slap. (easy fix)

5) Handling marks in the black finish. (boo-hoo)

6) SOG misled me.

I guess I'll just call and see what they say. Nothing else can be done at this point.

Thanks again,

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 7:12:43 PM EDT
I have another piece of info to add into the mix. The only reason I ever ordered from SOG is because that's the catalog my FFL showed me and I figured that all SAR-1 rifles were the same. Unfortunately, I never got a SAR-1.

Anyway, I just got off the phone to Federal Arms Corp (FAC) and on their automated 24 hour line they have some unadvertised specials. One of those specials is a SAR-1 for $299.95. That's only $20 more than I paid for this WASR-10. If I can get SOG to admit their mistake and refund 100% including shipping fees then I could re-order from FAC.

What do you guys think? Would that be the smart move?

FAC also had FAL receivers and Yugo SKS rifles as unadvertised specials. They sounded like pretty good prices. FYI.

Thanks and please give me some more advice!

BBURN
Link Posted: 3/30/2002 9:16:02 PM EDT
Not to sound shitty, but you've already shot it. I doubt you'll be able to get your money back at this point.

That said, if it shoots good then who cares?

It's an AK. If you were looking for a good beater rifle that functions and isn't pretty, then you got your money's worth. Simple as that. AS LONG AS IT FUNCTIONS.

I can't speak to the WASR's personally. But if you and others aren't haveing malfunctions then who cares?

Ak's are meant to function no matter what. Not to be pretty or accurate. If it does that I wouldn't worry.
Link Posted: 3/31/2002 4:58:51 AM EDT
I was thinking about sending it back not only because SOG screwed up, but also because the mag wobbles in it. I can see the big dimples in the photos of SAR-1 rifles that help support the mag and keep it from moving. My WASR-10 has those little plates welded inside the mag well but they dont appear to be doing anything.

Also, the sight post is crooked as mentioned. Would any of these companies be willing to hand pick one that doesn't have this problem?

Those items, plus the fact that two of their sales reps either lied to me or were flat wrong are what I'm basing this on.

BBURN

Link Posted: 3/31/2002 5:15:28 AM EDT
If you were going to return it, you should have done it before you shot it. Sounds like it functions just fine, so you have no grounds to return it in "used" condition. From the sound of your posts, your never going to be happy until you get a SAR1. Now your going to have 2 AKs because you're stuck with the WASR10 now that you've used it.

Not trying to be hard on you, that's just how I see the situation.
Link Posted: 3/31/2002 5:24:53 AM EDT
Send it back! The WASR is a cheaper gun. You did not get what you paid for. I think I've seen them wholesale for around $180!
Link Posted: 3/31/2002 6:12:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BBURN:
I was thinking about sending it back not only because SOG screwed up, but also because the mag wobbles in it. I can see the big dimples in the photos of SAR-1 rifles that help support the mag and keep it from moving. My WASR-10 has those little plates welded inside the mag well but they dont appear to be doing anything.

Also, the sight post is crooked as mentioned. Would any of these companies be willing to hand pick one that doesn't have this problem?

Those items, plus the fact that two of their sales reps either lied to me or were flat wrong are what I'm basing this on.

BBURN




Well, with the front site canted and the mag problem maybe you will be able to get your money back on it. I guess I should have read all your posts before responding.

To be honest with you, I would have sent it back as soon I realized it wasn't an SAR. But I also wouldn't have shot it.

The WASR's may work, but I would have been pissed about the false advertising as well.

Hopefully they'll either refund your money or get you one that isn't messed up.

Good luck with this.

Link Posted: 3/31/2002 6:42:41 AM EDT
Thanks!

CAMPYBOB just returned my email and told me that he would send it back himself if it were him.

I think that's what I'll try to do!

Thanks again everyone!

BBURN
Link Posted: 4/1/2002 8:16:15 AM EDT
I would be pleased with this gun if it was what I ordered. I'm sending it back for several reasons, but mostly because SOG misled me and sent me something I didn't order.

I also think the dimples and or the ORIGINAL DOUBLE STACK receiver milling do help with mag wobble. I just compared my friend's Maadi to mine and the mag wobble is noticeably less for some reason. Whether it's dimples or not, the cause of the mag wobble is simply that this gun was built as an "afterthought" to take double stacks. It will never quite be the same and my friend's Maadi is proof enough for me.

BBURN
Link Posted: 4/1/2002 9:27:02 AM EDT
Having a couple romanians and a half dozen other ak's... of which none "wobble"... I would tend to agree!
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:51:26 AM EDT
All AK's have some wobble. The indentions really have nothing to do with anything. The Wasr for $279.00 is the going price for the hi cap model. You shot it, it worked fine. Now you want your money back. The WASR has probably less of the American defects found on the SARS. The 10 round mag not included is also very common on the SARS.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:11:33 AM EDT
As I said, if they'd told me it was a WASR, I wouldn't have ordered it in the first place. I shot it to help me decide whether to go through all the hassle of returning it. They shot it before I did anyway because the rifles come with test-fire targets from the factory to prove that they are reasonably on target. (Not that I necessarily believe they do this!) I stripped the rifle and cleaned it VERY thoroughly so it is in MUCH better condition than when I received it.

Oh, and I don't care about any "common" problem with not sending a 10 round mag. If they advertise that certain items come with the deal and then don't send everything, then that is a bunch of crap common or not!

To avoid unnecessary hassle, this was all VERY carefully considered. It's not any one thing but the sum total of all the crap. Why would I want a new gun that 1) I didn't intend to get, 2) has a crooked front sight, 3) has mags that wobble more than true double stack AK's, 4) is new but the receiver was scratched all to hell during the conversion process, 5) is a "converted" non-original rifle, and 6) has a missing magazine that was part of the deal.

I called SOG and they said their policy is to consider WASR-10's as SAR-1's. This is not a good policy since they ARE NOT the same. Especially when I called on two separate occasions and asked two separate people to confirm that thay are SAR-1's and still didn't get an accurate answer. SOG understood and told me that they had no problems with taking the rifle back for a full refund and sending it back is what I plan to do. I've got my return authorization number and it's going back today.

BBURN
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:30:57 AM EDT
You have every right to return your rifle, since SOG misrepresented it as an SAR-1 when it was not. That being said.....


Oh, and I don't care about any "common" problem with not sending a 10 round mag. If they advertise that certain items come with the deal and then don't send everything, then that is a bunch of crap common or not!


Absolutely agreed.


It's not any one thing but the sum total of all the crap. Why would I want a new gun that 1) I didn't intend to get,


Agreed.


2) has a crooked front sight,


You knew this was a risk, as on any SAR-1 as well, 2001 model or not. This is always a risk when buying these Romanian rifle.


3) has mags that wobble more than true double stack AK's


True, but if it functions correctly, this is an anooyance, and nothing more. Some SAR-1's wobble more than others.


4) is new but the receiver was scratched all to hell during the conversion process,


This is true of ANY Romanian rifle. Century imports these, and scratches them all up. Some get lucky and get a good looking one. My SAR1 had scratches all over it. What do you expect for a spray painted finish? I dont see a difference here between the WASR10 and SAR1.


5) is a "converted" non-original rifle,


The SAR1 is also a "converted" non-original rifle. The ONLY difference is that the WASR10 has a hogged out magwell, and missing dimples. Century Arms imports both as parts, and builds them both with US parts. Both rifles are converts, and US made rifles.


I called SOG and they said their policy is to consider WASR-10's as SAR-1's.


That's a shame.


SOG understood and told me that they had no problems with taking the rifle back for a full refund and sending it back is what I plan to do.


I would too. Glad it worked out for you.

In the future, I have had nothing but stellar service from AIMSurplus. Great outfit.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:58:00 AM EDT
Does Federal Arms Corp have a web page?
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 11:14:51 AM EDT
You want to talk about mis-representation, did you tell SOG you fired a 100 rounds through it? This is way more than test firing a new gun. Try this with FAC and see what kind of return you would get. I agree that you should get what you order, but If there is a mistake, I don't consider taking advantage of the situation a fair resolution. Try this with any of the domestic manufacturers and see how far you get.
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