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Posted: 3/21/2002 1:58:19 PM EDT
I realize I will probably get burned for asking this, but is there a federal law on the books which states whether a citizen can or can not carry a rifle, on lets say, a sling, much like one would carry a pistol on a belt? I'm hinting at locals with other people, not in the middle of the woods.

And assuming you COULD, would you be restricted from the same places as you would a handgun?

Clarifying this I mean, can you or can you not carry a rifle on your back in downtown Portland, OR if you wanted to, assuming there were no local or state laws working against you? And I want to stress, on a Federal basis.

I recall a program on PBS about the Black Panther's in LA during the 60's and 70's carrying so-called "assault rifles" as a show of force.

-thanks
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 2:31:47 PM EDT
Why the hell would you do this? To scare the hell out of people? Given the contemporary political climate this would be an extremely poor idea and I hope you are not considering it even if it is legal.

Now to your question. I beleive there are local laws that allow long arms to be carried for demonstration purposes...I'm not sure how they work. I imagine its different in different places. I think I heard that the long arms in demonstrations/marches/whatever are allowed to be loaded in Texas. If anyone from Texas can confirm that I would be interested to know for sure. The KKK does this to this day.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 2:48:43 PM EDT
I can't imagine any better way to screw up your life than to carry an assault weapon around in public. You can barely get away with it at a range sometimes and the people there are used to seeing people walking around with guns.

Laws or not you can expect to find yourself in a lockup for a few days while they sort out what law they'll use to charge you with.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 2:59:08 PM EDT
I believe they call it curiousity. If you never knew wrong, wouldn't you be curious to know what "wrong" was?

Hopefully you catch my drift.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 3:21:38 PM EDT
I doubt a Federal law would stop you, but a bunch of local laws would.

If you're out of city limits, it might be ok. Check the local state and county laws.

In any case, it sounds like a bad idea unless you have a reason, such as a SHTF situation.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 3:23:20 PM EDT
Tell you what SKSGuy, you go try it and let us know how it goes. I see you are from Washington so here is the answer for our state.

Open carry of an UNLOADED rifle or shotgun is legal in Washington, but it is not recommended and I would use a little common sense. If you are heading to the range, or a downtown gun shop, or a location where the presence of an unloaded firearm would be generally accepted by a reasonable person then you are probably fine. If you are walking the streets of downtown Seattle with it slung on your back you'll be lucky if you go home without at least being shot with a tazer. It would be considered "menacing" at the very least and that is a crime.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 3:40:54 PM EDT
a reasonable man adapts to his environment, where as an unreasonable man makes his environment adapt to him, THEREFORE ALL PROGRESS IS MADE BY UNREASONABLE MEN.

thats the problem, if no one is willing to rock the boat a little how are we suppose to make any progress.

a theory that has served me well as a commander and in real life.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 4:07:12 PM EDT
In Az there is no state law that would prohibit this. Open handgun carry quite common.

But you cannot "brandish" a firearm which would be a "reckless" act.

As for long guns.....

I have researched this very issue recently and even though it would not be illegal in Az, you would definately be stopped and your motives questioned by the cops. And subsequent stops after that by the same agency could quite possibly be construed as harrassment.

My reason for doing it would be to raise awareness that the act itself is not illegal, but I fear that it might cause a state law to be passed prohibiting the practice.

If someone had time and money to play the game it would be quite interesting.

Biggame223

Out
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 4:16:46 PM EDT
I have carried my AR down the steet a few times to my buddies house. I live in a small community and have carried rifles across the street to my car with cops driving by, no problems. Most areas you can carry a rifle in public as long as it's not loaded and you arent doing anything stupid with it. I can pretty much guarantee you will get questioned by a cop if he sees you just strolling down the block with the AR over your shoulder.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 4:17:51 PM EDT
Finally, someone with a little sense not wanting to start a damn lynch mob.

Biggame223, thank you for the input.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 4:21:36 PM EDT
You can in texas, others freak on the thought, Someone will call the cops and you might be arrested for disorderly conduct if the cops a prick.
GG
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 4:46:03 PM EDT
As far as I know, there is not law against carrying a rifle in public where I live. I was held once by a county cop while he had his supervisor look into it. I live about a mile from a range. It's down a rough unpaved road, so it's just easier for me to walk than borrow a car and have to wash it. All four times I've been seen by an officer, I've been stopped and questioned. When I'm on the same road as a range, and it's just about the only thing on that road, where would you assume I'm going and what am I planning to do? The first time I had a cop stop me, he accused me of planning on shooting at powerlines. What? Is that a common problem? You guys shoot at power lines? The second time, the guy was convinced that because I had two rifles, I had to be breaking some law. The third time was the worst. It was a DNR officer (aka game warden). He accused me of hunting without a license. Who carries two rifles when they hunt? Also, again, I was on the road to the range. I've just stopped going shooting after all of the hassle walking to the range and when I get there.z
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 5:08:30 PM EDT
Better yet, is there any restriction on what you can carry concealed if you have a permit? A SBR AR would be fun :)
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 5:25:35 PM EDT
Gun Guru is right. While technically not against the law in many place, you can expect to get nailed with a disorderly conduct charge.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 5:48:38 PM EDT
Really the whole point of this was to get people to open their eyes and think outside the box instead of saying "Why the hell would you do this? To scare the hell out of people?" ask yourself "Well, why the hell not carry my rifle?" Give it some serious logical thought because when you start assuming things (as some of you have), you're no better than the bureaucrats passing these ridiculous laws.

Think:
What does it matter if it can't fit into my belt holster? Does it matter that it is far from agile draw? Think about this, even though the rifle may have a further effective range, you’ve got only a few hundred feet of visual range between city blocks AT MOST, and last I checked…gee…the bullets are still deadly.

You must remember, a gun is a gun is a gun (projecting a slug from the expansion of burning powder) and in an urban environment handguns are arguably going to be more effective and for all intensive purposes, more "lethal". So then tell me, why is it a bad thing to even suggest such an action? …unless you have some deep seeded fear of rifles or as Clinton likes to call them “assault weapons”. I always loved that coined phrase “Assault weapon” so my Geo Metro can go from a civilian transport unit to a military configured “Assault weapon” if too many people use it to run over innocent bystanders. I wonder what kind of extra fines would be slapped on me if I was pulled over for doing such a thing WITH tinted windows…..hmm. As crazy as that analogy sounds, think about trying to explain the current gun laws to people 40, 50, even 60 years ago.

What has happened to multiple schools of thought and opposing views? Oh, gee…sorry, here in the new America we hush up the minority.

Thank you to all those who have bothered to even read this.


“ if no one is willing to rock the boat a little how are we suppose to make any progress.”
- ah1z
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 7:15:38 PM EDT
This is a simple question, but the answer must account for a number of variables. The primary variable would be location.

In certain areas federal laws or rules prohibit anyone not an agent of the government from carrying firearms. These might include some parks, Washington DC, certain government buildings and certain military installations.

As to simply walking down the city street, probably no Federal law against it if someone was not otherwise prohibited.

As to what you would be arrested and charged with, thats a pretty simple one. Disorderly conduct( causing disturbance or annoyance to others ) would suffice for starters.

While a nice theoretical excersize I would caution that carrying a weapon anywhere in the open where its appearance is likely to cause disturbance or annoyance to others would in fact be disorderly conduct. This would probably not apply when in a venue at a time when weapons would be expected to be displayed. This might include participants in a parade, or people attending a gunshow or hunting or at a shooting match. Under those circumstances seeing openly carried guns would be expected and an annoyed or disturbed person would have a hard time proving it as they were attending an event where one might expect to see guns.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:45:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By schapman43:
Better yet, is there any restriction on what you can carry concealed if you have a permit? A SBR AR would be fun :)



Ahh, someone who thinks as I do.

In Arizona, yes that would be legal. Dont know about Wyoming. But even with a SBR AR it would require a long coat, which most places you cant do year round.

Most places in the country, even in states that are shall issue CCW states, those laws are held to apply to HANDGUNS only. Found that out when I checked up on PA laws.

Supposedly either way would work in Vermont, but some towns might object. Here in AZ a loaded rifle can be carried openly in all unincorporated areas.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:29:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2002 11:34:44 PM EDT by Rotti]

Originally Posted By schapman43:
Better yet, is there any restriction on what you can carry concealed if you have a permit? A SBR AR would be fun :)



Alaska: CCW expressley prohibits carrying anything other than qualified PISTOL caliber concealed. However, if your out of town, you'd be considered a moron NOT to carry a .338 or a 12 ga., due to the 1000 + pound animals that decide who gets the trail (moose, grizzly & puny 300 pound black bears).
You should check with local law enforcement prior to any activity in populated areas & it would be good to have a "reason". Example: I carry my AR-15 to my truck, put it in the back, drive to a buddies house & take it inside. Why stir up hornets who would succeed in getting more non-constitional "laws" passed against you? I go low profile & abide by the current laws where I go.

If you carry concealed up here, & your handgun is distinguishable as a gun, you can be charged w/ brandishing & lose your permit. Read Mass Ayoob- concealed= concealed. No one else needs to know.If our situation deteriorated to the condition of Isreal's, where one has to worry about suicide bombers in civilian areas, public opinion may change. But we're not there now, & I hope that we never are.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 4:46:59 AM EDT
Not to put words in the mouth of the person who started this thread, but I wonder if this question springs from recent pics of civs in Israel carrying rifles. Its much more like the wild west so to speak over there. They need to carry rifles. I think that unless we start getting daily attacks in the US this will never be looked upon kindly.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 5:53:04 AM EDT
There are no federal laws rohibting this, because federal laws generally only apply to Federally-owned property, or property that has a substantial involvement in interstate commerce, like airports. That is why the Supreme Court through out the "Gun Free Schools Act" a few years back.

I'll bet that your state laws have something to say about it.

As far as carrying openly in Texas (including protest marches), whether it illegal or not depends on lots of factors. Carrying a handgun openly is generally not legal, unless you are on private property and have the owner's permission to carry, and if you are performing a security function, you had better be licensed in the state.

Carrying a long gun oenly is legal as long as it is not reasonably likely to alarm anyone. Carrying a shotgun on a rural road, probably not a roblem, unless you are hunting (hunting from the road is illegal). AR-15 in the gun rack? See it all the time. Walking from your car to the gun store? Not a problem. Walking down Main Street at port arms? Now we might be having a problem. As afr as the armed rotest march, like the New Black Panthers do here sometimes, local law enforcement let what was a fairly obvious violation slide because the Black Panthers wanted a confrontation, and would have loved the publicity if law enforcement tried to arrest several of their members on camera for any offense.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 6:21:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
Think:
What does it matter if it can't fit into my belt holster? Does it matter that it is far from agile draw? Think about this, even though the rifle may have a further effective range, you’ve got only a few hundred feet of visual range between city blocks AT MOST, and last I checked…gee…the bullets are still deadly.

You must remember, a gun is a gun is a gun (projecting a slug from the expansion of burning powder) and in an urban environment handguns are arguably going to be more effective and for all intensive purposes, more "lethal". So then tell me, why is it a bad thing to even suggest such an action? …unless you have some deep seeded fear of rifles or as Clinton likes to call them “assault weapons”. I always loved that coined phrase “Assault weapon” so my Geo Metro can go from a civilian transport unit to a military configured “Assault weapon” if too many people use it to run over innocent bystanders. I wonder what kind of extra fines would be slapped on me if I was pulled over for doing such a thing WITH tinted windows…..hmm. As crazy as that analogy sounds, think about trying to explain the current gun laws to people 40, 50, even 60 years ago.



It makes a difference because, in many places, the laws are different. Here in Texas, a handgun may NOT be carried exposed, while a long arm may NOT be concealed. Go figure.

In some areas, certain air rifles are guns, even though they do not burn any powder. Depends on local law.

Hand guns more effective? By what standard? Handier? Probably. More effective? Hardly.

In any case, consult a lawyer, and/or read the law yourself. Don't do anything stupid until you know what you are doing and are willing to pay the price.

As for your Metro, it's probably okay, unless you've added a high capacity gas tank...
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 6:26:49 AM EDT
Okay, now this might seem silly, but if it's perfectly legal to walk through a town with a rifle over my shoulder, but it could be called "disorderly conduct" because it disturbs people, so what? Some people are disturbed by seeing black people, but the black people don't get thrown in jail because they're black. If it's my God-given and Consitutionally protected right to carry a rifle I think people will just have to be disturbed and live with it. Not that I have the resources to try it out.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 9:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2002 9:51:16 AM EDT by slt223]

Originally Posted By SKSguy:
Really the whole point of this was to get people to open their eyes and think outside the box instead of saying "Why the hell would you do this? To scare the hell out of people?" ask yourself "Well, why the hell not carry my rifle?" Give it some serious logical thought because when you start assuming things (as some of you have), you're no better than the bureaucrats passing these ridiculous laws.

Think:
What does it matter if it can't fit into my belt holster? Does it matter that it is far from agile draw? Think about this, even though the rifle may have a further effective range, you’ve got only a few hundred feet of visual range between city blocks AT MOST, and last I checked…gee…the bullets are still deadly.

You must remember, a gun is a gun is a gun (projecting a slug from the expansion of burning powder) and in an urban environment handguns are arguably going to be more effective and for all intensive purposes, more "lethal". So then tell me, why is it a bad thing to even suggest such an action? …unless you have some deep seeded fear of rifles or as Clinton likes to call them “assault weapons”. I always loved that coined phrase “Assault weapon” so my Geo Metro can go from a civilian transport unit to a military configured “Assault weapon” if too many people use it to run over innocent bystanders. I wonder what kind of extra fines would be slapped on me if I was pulled over for doing such a thing WITH tinted windows…..hmm. As crazy as that analogy sounds, think about trying to explain the current gun laws to people 40, 50, even 60 years ago.

What has happened to multiple schools of thought and opposing views? Oh, gee…sorry, here in the new America we hush up the minority.

Thank you to all those who have bothered to even read this.
.



What would you think if you saw some plain clothes guy walking down Park Ave. in Manhattan with a rifle? Would say, "eh, that's just some guy with a rifle." I'm not you, but I would guess you would wonder what he's doing with a rifle...I know I would. I don't see any need to carry a rifle for self defense, which is why I would be wondering what he's doing.

I think of rifles as being offensive weapons in comparison to handguns because their purpose is to engage targets at long ranges... well beyond the effective range of a sidearm. I think you would have a very difficult time convincing a jury that you were in a self-defense situation if you shot someone at a range of 100 yards. Over penetration in a crowded area would be another concern.

So, I guess my point is using rifle for self-defense doesn't really make sense, so why would you want to carry it? If you're not carrying it for self-defense, then why are you carrying it? Attention? To scare people?

BTW, I'm not assuming anything. You and I know very well what you will be percipitating if you walk around an urban area with a rifle, not only will you scare people, but you will, most likely, be arrested or at least fined.

There is a poster here by the name Oneshotonekill. Ask him what happened when he pulled his cased rifle out of his trunk in a parking lot.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 9:56:32 AM EDT
I think that some of the previous statements are not completely correct. In TX, you can carry a rifle loaded in public, and as far as I know in most cities ( that may be incorrect ) It is not disorderly conduct to do so. That comes in if you start waving the weapon around in a manner that others may find threatening. As far as I understand, if you have it on a sling over your shoulder and are doing nothing other than walking down the street, yes you will probably get the attention of the police, but it is not illegal and really nothing they could do except ask that you go home and put it away. Just to calirify no, I am not an officer or lawyer either.

CH
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 10:12:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tinker:
It makes a difference because, in many places, the laws are different. Here in Texas, a handgun may NOT be carried exposed, while a long arm may NOT be concealed. Go figure.



How do you figure that? There are no laws regarding the carry of long guns that I know of.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 10:15:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chazz:
I think that some of the previous statements are not completely correct. In TX, you can carry a rifle loaded in public, and as far as I know in most cities ( that may be incorrect ) It is not disorderly conduct to do so. That comes in if you start waving the weapon around in a manner that others may find threatening. As far as I understand, if you have it on a sling over your shoulder and are doing nothing other than walking down the street, yes you will probably get the attention of the police, but it is not illegal and really nothing they could do except ask that you go home and put it away. Just to calirify no, I am not an officer or lawyer either.



"Disorderly Conduct" seems to be the charge used when they can't think of anything better. Just because it won't stick doesn't mean you won't be charged with it.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 10:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chazz:
I think that some of the previous statements are not completely correct. In TX, you can carry a rifle loaded in public, and as far as I know in most cities ( that may be incorrect ) It is not disorderly conduct to do so. That comes in if you start waving the weapon around in a manner that others may find threatening. As far as I understand, if you have it on a sling over your shoulder and are doing nothing other than walking down the street, yes you will probably get the attention of the police, but it is not illegal and really nothing they could do except ask that you go home and put it away. Just to calirify no, I am not an officer or lawyer either.

CH



You are correct.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 1:20:36 PM EDT
I was thinking of getting a baseball bat bag to carry my AR. I don't want no one to know what I have. I carry a G19c in a Fobus Tactical. In the summer I will carry in a waist bag or in the waist holster.

It's a good point to make, the only problem you better have lots of money to back it up. You will be stopped in NY and I am sure Nassau or Suffolk County. Even if they respect your rights a little more. You are still asking for trouble in this day and age.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 1:32:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2002 1:43:41 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Slt223, oneshotonekills problem was that he lives in New York. Not that he was carrying a rifle. People who can do so legally should carry their rifles around, that way people will get used to the idea that they are not evil.

And it would come in handy for things like this chase we had here in Phoenix yesterday. A guy high on crystal meth stealing a dump truck and going on a 40 min chase causing three wrecks and nearly wiping out a whole family. It was on both CNN and Fox yesterday so you all probably saw it.

www.arizonarepublic.com/news/articles/0322chase22.html

Hey, lucky, they have streaming video of the final crash and the arrest. Look at what is left of that Ford. A young couple and their 3 small children where in it when the dump truck ran over their nose. A tenth of a second later it would have bullseyed the drivers compartment.

This was 3 accident this truck caused on its 40 min rampage. It had a full tank of diesel so it could have done this for a couple hours if it hadn't wrecked.

www.azcentral.com/azcmediaplayer/azcmediaplayer320.php?type=video&path=real.azcentral.com:8080/ramgen/realvideo/news/0321dumprun320.rm&sec=&sponsor=qwest@Middle1?x&image=
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 4:22:19 PM EDT
You will beat the rap, but you wont beat the ride.
GG
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 5:02:48 PM EDT
People here and elsewhere for that matter have this opinion that people freak over anything gun related and it just isn't so all of the time. Here's three examples of this and keep in mind all of this happened in MARYLAND. First, I worked retail about 7 yrs. ago in a big department store as a manager. Husband and wife shopping and he is obviously carrying as the lower half of his holster and barrel of some kind of wheelgun is about 6"s below his jacket. For over an hour I watched him and any other customers near him and Nobody even notices or visibly cares. Second forinstance, guy walking down busy rural road with shopping centers, fast food, etc all over, with some kind of rifle slung over his shoulder and again nobody that I saw even paid the guy any attention from what I could tell as I was watching. This was right across and to the left about 1/2 a mile of a MD State PD barrack too boot. Third, I drove two hundred miles round trip on I95 thru Baltimore and suburbs and back with two AR15's in black nylon assult rifle cases strapped to the sides of my motorcycle fully prepared for the pending interrogation that never happened. Was passed by plenty of State boys that day too.

All I am saying if it's not illegal don't worry about! The more people out there that get people used to seeing good guys (and girls) with guns the better we all be be. Hell, most people are so ingrossed in their own little world 99% won't even know.

BTW- OneShot did not post his his story to be used as an example everytime someone wants to prove a point about how easy it is to get in trouble with firearms these days. Anybody can be arrested at any time, anywhere, for no good reason! Making the charges stick infront of a Judge is what matters.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 8:27:22 PM EDT
Armdlbrl, do you have a source for this?


Here in AZ a loaded rifle can be carried openly in all unincorporated areas


Thanks

Biggame223
Out
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 8:40:53 PM EDT
I have carried my rifle in public once when my car broke down on the way home from the range. At the time I lived in Marietta, GA. I was stopped by the police and questioned and then was given a ride home. Lucky for me I met a nice officer. He was called out by a "concerned citizen".
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 10:18:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Biggame223:
Armdlbrl, do you have a source for this?


Here in AZ a loaded rifle can be carried openly in all unincorporated areas


Thanks

Biggame223
Out



Well, the NRA page has pretty much everything that my Dad was taught in his CCW course: www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=Detail&R=AZ
Look under miscellanious.


It is unlawful to recklessly handle, display, or discharge a firearm with the intent to disturb the peace and quiet of a neighborhood, family or person.


Its also illegal to discharge a firearm within the limits of a municiapality or within 1/4th mile of a occupied dwelling. But note that it says discharge, not carry. However, unless you want the police to take a keen interest in what you are doing, avoid open carry in municipal areas. I dont live in one, so I can go out the back door of our house walk about 200ft and be on state land that is leased out for ranching, carrying my AR slung over my shoulder.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 11:25:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Slt223, oneshotonekills problem was that he lives in New York. Not that he was carrying a rifle.

He lives where? Feel free to adlib which ever state you would like, it won't make a difference. If you would like to try to make the difference please feel free. On the other hand, I'm not giving anyone any excuse to dissarm me.

Link Posted: 3/23/2002 5:02:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chazz:
I think that some of the previous statements are not completely correct. In TX, you can carry a rifle loaded in public, and as far as I know in most cities ( that may be incorrect ) It is not disorderly conduct to do so. That comes in if you start waving the weapon around in a manner that others may find threatening. As far as I understand, if you have it on a sling over your shoulder and are doing nothing other than walking down the street, yes you will probably get the attention of the police, but it is not illegal and really nothing they could do except ask that you go home and put it away. Just to calirify no, I am not an officer or lawyer either.

CH



Chazz...that's pretty much the way I've seen it enforced in Dallas. But don't forget the Political-Correctness factor. You might reflect on our local cartoon-character "New Black Panther" buffoons. Their favorite television image is black hats, black leather jackets and shotguns carried port arms. Cops never do anything more than stand around and watch them intimidate other people. You or I on the other hand would most likely receive different treatment.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 5:11:21 AM EDT
That's why they make gun racks for pick ups. I've never done it though, because I don't care to invite thieves.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 5:19:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Arock:
Chazz...that's pretty much the way I've seen it enforced in Dallas. But don't forget the Political-Correctness factor. You might reflect on our local cartoon-character "New Black Panther" buffoons. Their favorite television image is black hats, black leather jackets and shotguns carried port arms. Cops never do anything more than stand around and watch them intimidate other people. You or I on the other hand would most likely receive different treatment.



When my unlce was visiting from PRK (CA), he noticed on the news, during that Jasper trial, the Black Panthers were carrying shotguns around. He thought it was odd.

Also, those cartoon characters that carry shotguns and hold up traffic on purpose, are intimidating motorists and others. My friend sees this all the time and says they do it on purpose-- they carry a rifle, and will walk so slow in the crosswalks, and when the light changes, they quickly get onto the sidewalk to avoid a jay walking ticket! They do this continually. They are holding up traffic, and intimdating people-- something should be done about it. If I, as Joe Citizen, was to do the same thing as these cartoon characters, I know I would definately be questioned and told to leave the area.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 6:57:47 AM EDT
leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

You seemingly can in Virginia, unless it fits one of the following:
(i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or (ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government.

And the rifle means:
(i) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels a projectile by action of an explosion and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than twenty rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock

Correct me if I'm wrong, but carrying an ar-15 with a 20-round max mag, and a non-folding stock in a location that fits the requirements above is perfectly legal. Not to say that someone wouldn't call the cops on your ass...

Robby
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 8:05:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tinker:
It makes a difference because, in many places, the laws are different. Here in Texas, a handgun may NOT be carried exposed, while a long arm may NOT be concealed. Go figure.



Tinker, in Texas, the laws regulating the carrying of weapons apply to only handguns, and not to other types of firearms. The laws are completely silent on the issue of carrying rifles and shotguns. State law also preempts local law. There are some exceptions to this rule - all firearms are prohibited in schools, etc.

So if you could manage to conceal a rifle or shotgun on your person, you could go about with it.

I am not a lawyer, but everything that I have read indicates that in Texas, if you are carrying a rifle and minding your own business, there is little that the police can do to you. Now if you start carrying it in "low ready" style, or loitering, or giving menacing glances to strangers, then, yes, you could be nailed for disorderly conduct.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 10:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2002 10:20:23 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By slt223:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Slt223, oneshotonekills problem was that he lives in New York. Not that he was carrying a rifle.

He lives where? Feel free to adlib which ever state you would like, it won't make a difference. If you would like to try to make the difference please feel free. On the other hand, I'm not giving anyone any excuse to dissarm me.




Dude, I am sorry as hell about the situation you guys in the North East and the people in California have to deal with. But don't try to project that attitude on law enforcement across the country, it IS a REGIONAL phenomonon- which is why I often liken it to Jim Crow laws which were also very much a regional phenomonon.

No one is going to call the cops on you in AZ or TX or a lot of other states if you have a rifle in the window of your car, or if you have to take it out of your trunk and lay it on the ground. This is a fact. If you dont point it at someone or fire it no one is going to bother you.

You guys do a great disservice to all gun owners when you make make blanket statements telling newcomers that they have to hide their weapons. People who can leagally do so should carry their weapons openly, this shows the world that guns and gun owners are not evil, that violence does not automaticly follow them, and it increases the chances that a armed citizen will be in the right place at the right time to stop a serious criminal incident.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 1:05:08 PM EDT
ArmdLbrl, if its legal, walk around downtown Tuscan with an AR on your back and have someone film you. Go through your daily routine; to the market, to the gas station etc. I just want see what happens.

Sorry for the generality, I just can't understand what the point of carrying a rifle is if you have no intention of using it. If the only reason is to get people more comfortable with seeing guns in public, it would seem that they already are in AZ and TX, according to you. I can tell you for sure that it will never fly in CT, NY, MA, NJ, and NH. It's just not a way of life here, and I sure as hell don't care to be the test case. Vermont seems to be ok with most gun related stuff, but that is the exception in the NE.

An interesting note on this subject is the Connecticut "Turn in Your Neighbor" Law. I don't remember what its actual name is, but its a pretty scary concept. Here's how it works; if your neighbor feels threatened by your possession of firearms, they can call the police, who confiscate your guns. I'm not sure precisely what constitutes a "threat" in the rhetoric of the law, but I'm pretty sure in my tightassed neighborhood walking around with a rifle will be the end of my firearms ownership. So far I believe this law has been exercised twice since its inception. So, I guess you're right about it being a regional thing.

Using Oneshotonekill's case as an example was not entirely accurate of me because he wasn't carrying an exposed rifle. People don't get in trouble for removing a long gun from their trunk, gun rack, whatever in AZ. But do they really carry rifles around waiting for a crime to occur? This is not meant to be a flame question, I just can't believe this...maybe because I live CT.

I strongly doubt I'm doing a great disservice to a new comer by telling him not to carry his rifles around. It would be absolutely ridiculous for me tell a newbie to walk around with an exposed long gun like this is the wild west. It seems to me that it's just begging for trouble, and you only have something to lose by doing it.

Even if open carry was legal where I live, I think I would refrain from it. It might dissuade a BG from attempting a robbery or what ever, but on the other hand he my conclude that he has to eliminate me first. In this situation he gets the jump on me because I don't know his intentions until he acts on them. If said BG doesn't know I have the means to resist him, I could be in a favorable position to interdict because he would be less likely to factor me in as an immediate threat.

Food for thought, let me know what you think.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 3:17:11 PM EDT
No carrying my 20in AR over my shoulder without a case when I am not somewhere where shooting can be done is not something that would fly even here.

But I can keep it in a gun rack in the back of my truck and drive it wherever. Even into downtown, provided I was willing to trust my locks and such, you would have to worry about it being stolen, but not about it being illegal.

But what Shapman43 said is true, if you had a short AR, a CCW, and a article of clothing that would conceal it, under AZ CCW laws THAT would be legal. The operating word being concealed.

Now if we wanted to stage a protest demonstration downtown at the capitol, THEN I could carry my 20" AR. The cops will probably ask, but that explination would suffice as to why I was there with the rifle.

You need to get out of CT more often. I imagine that you would go absolutely NUTS if you went to one of our gun shows- and we are going to have another first weekend in April, 5-6 IIRC at the State Fargrounds, which are almost right in downtown Phoenix. Hang out in the parking lot or on the streets surrounding the fairgrounds where all the cheep parking is, and watch all the artillery walk by. No cases required. People walk by carrying Class III. Kids walk by carrying guns.

And as to saying this kind of freedom won't fly in New England- well most of the people in the old South said you would never see segregation end either. And they did indeed have to be bludgeoned into submission over about 15 years, but it did happen.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 4:46:51 PM EDT
most of us would rather not give the Liberal anti gun people any "ammo" to use against us.. even though it would be an eye opener in some places.. AND in answer to "do you guys shoot power lines??". In Arizona, some folks shoot anything.. Power lines, plants, signs, mailboxes, outbuildings, Junk cars, garbage cans, refrigerators, BBQ Grills, TVs, chairs, cans, bottles..... You get the idea.. They do not, however, carry any of this trash home.. So our deserts are becoming more like dumps than deserts.. Sad..
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 6:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2002 6:15:58 AM EDT by Rotti]

Originally Posted By slt223:
ArmdLbrl, if its legal, walk around downtown Tuscan with an AR on your back and have someone film you. Go through your daily routine; to the market, to the gas station etc. I just want see what happens.

I strongly doubt I'm doing a great disservice to a new comer by telling him not to carry his rifles around. It would be absolutely ridiculous for me tell a newbie to walk around with an exposed long gun like this is the wild west. It seems to me that it's just begging for trouble, and you only have something to lose by doing it.

Even if open carry was legal where I live, I think I would refrain from it. It might dissuade a BG from attempting a robbery or what ever, but on the other hand he my conclude that he has to eliminate me first. In this situation he gets the jump on me because I don't know his intentions until he acts on them. If said BG doesn't know I have the means to resist him, I could be in a favorable position to interdict because he would be less likely to factor me in as an immediate threat.

Food for thought, let me know what you think.



I agree. I go over to a friends house in town to show him my AR, I carry it inside in a case. If I go out to the country or suburbs (low crime areas) I relax about what the neighbors might see, as they tend to not worry like the old busy body in the apartment bldg in town... I take actions, as well, that will help others to embrace my freedom by not presenting an itimidating presence. If they see my buddy & I in the back yard calmly admiring an unloaded firearm & are curious, I invite them over & make friends with them.

I had a discussion w/ a young woman about the better reasons of concealed carry vs. open carry. She was anti-concealed carry, stating that she should be allowed to know who was packing. I asked her if she would feel more alarmed or uncomfortable if a man walked into her store with a 7" .44 mag on his hip or if a well dressed guy wearing a light jacket walked in... she was honest enough to admit that an armed guy walking around, while not neccesarily threatening anyone on purpose would be more jarring than the "avg. guy" walking in w/ no outward appearance of a threat, yet VERY able to save her life if the guy carrying open turned out to be a nut job... because he was carrying concealed & did not appear a threat to any felon. I did not try to convince to go out & by a gun, just to see that there are lots of good people who will defend society if we give them the tools. She'll come around one step at a time.

I am not anti-open carry. I'd love to strap my leg holster on as it's easier to access while driving & other activities. But there are tactical advantages to being the guy who looked like a bystander, than looking like the first guy to take out.
Ah well... be fluid, deal with each situation as the situation is best dealt with?
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 6:45:42 AM EDT
Here in Texas a long gun can be carried concealed or unconcealed, loaded or unloaded, as long as it is not done in a manner to cause alarm. It is hard to conceal a long gun on your person, and I think "manner to cause alarm" would be up to the officers descretion. I don't think I would walk around downtown Austin shouldering a long gun without a high risk of being stopped and questioned as to why I was carrying the weapon. I would be surprised if I made it a block. There are many places a firearm would not be allowed, you would need to check your local laws. Just because the law says you can pack one does not mean you won't be stopped and have to explain yourself. Why open yourself up to the hassle?
Link Posted: 3/24/2002 4:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2002 4:56:33 PM EDT by Rotti]
Was anyone seriously considering this prior to Sept. 11? This is not a flame, I have wondered alot about how that incident will change things in the US... I've known for years that Isreali's carried open & always, & I've been very thankful that in our country we didn't have to suffer the same terrorist activity as they have.

BTW, Isreali's don't carry in condition one for the most part. They have a mag strapped to the grip & slap it in when needed. I assume this is to make sure that they are not going around w/ one in the chamber in crowded cities. This is not in reference to soldiers or officers on duty, but the armed civie or off duty soldier/ cop... My understanding is that they also have to qualify prior to open carry, but I'm not 100% on that.

Sept. 11, I got the news as I was headed to work. I turned around & put my AR & tac-vest in the trunk, just in case things got WAY out of control. I kept them with my for about a month as things settled out. I also worried about riots & mobs... (no, I am not & do not look middle eastern, but I do have a short beard!)
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