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Posted: 3/20/2002 8:37:12 PM EDT
I've been looking around for a good deal on .223 ammo and came across Wolf Performance Ammunition. Do any of you have any pros and cons about this ammunition?
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:43:09 PM EDT
wolf ammo has one very annoying tendency to eff up your chamber.
the cases are coated with a lacquer that builds up/gums up your chamber after a couple hundred rounds. the stuff is very dirty. i'm not sure how it is now, but a while back i tried some and the accuracy sucked, i had no reliability problems, but it was like someone poured maple syrup in my chamber.
(you get what you pay for)
sportsman's guide has some south african battlepacks that i would recommend over wolf ammo, if you're looking for cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:11:55 PM EDT
I only shoot Wolf! Call me CHEAP. I have had ZERO problems with the stuff, and the laquer has not been a problem either. Use it in a Colt and a Bushy and I love it. I even shoot it in my pistols!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:18:02 PM EDT
Icz,

Do a search here for Wolf. You'll find a lot of negative comments on it.

As for me, Wolf will never touch any of my ARs or pistols. I've had too many problems in the past with it.

However, Wolf is ALL I shoot in my AK. Those rifles were made for that sort of ammo. I have almost 2k rounds thru my AK with no malfs and no cleaning either!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:05:24 PM EDT
Thanks for the suggestions. My dad recently passed down his Sporter Lightweight preban with a 1/7 twist barrel to me. I'm definately in love with the AR-15. Just finding some ammo to hit the range with. I'm going to look into that South African Battle Pack ammo. Looks like a good deal.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 5:09:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2002 5:10:23 AM EDT by mini14jac]
A lot of people are agin' it.
I shoot it in expensive pistols and rifles.
No problems.

I'm fer it.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 6:19:18 AM EDT
Never had problems with it, accuracy was acceceptable, and I'd love to see pictures of this mystical lacquer buildup..
Downside? It leaves a black rather than grey residue, and smells funny. Occasionally it is hard to load mags from strippers loaded with it, and the steel casings seem to hold their residual heat a bit longer than brass after ejection..

Anyone who has some, and does not want it, I am offering the "Wolf Disposal Service", in which I will personally deactivate each round sent.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 6:54:31 AM EDT
YES, I also would like to see some pictures of this MYSTICAL laquer buildup! I pretty much shoot Wolf exclusively, and I've never seen any lacquer buildup. I believe it to be a myth!

Link Posted: 3/21/2002 7:06:19 AM EDT
Every time this subject comes up, I have an image of myself trying to pound that stuck Wolf .223 out of my AR with rod. I swore a mighty oath (actually, I was swearing a lot of oaths that day) that I would never use Wolf ammunition again.

Only my personal experience. Others seem to use it without problems.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 7:18:54 AM EDT
I have used it with no problems. But like Meplet said it smells to the point I can't take it at the indoor ranges. Also the lacquer does turn your hands yellow after awhile.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 7:41:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tirador223:
Every time this subject comes up, I have an image of myself trying to pound that stuck Wolf .223 out of my AR with rod. I swore a mighty oath (actually, I was swearing a lot of oaths that day) that I would never use Wolf ammunition again.

Only my personal experience. Others seem to use it without problems.



Hey My DPMS upper does that with south african, go figure?
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 8:36:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:06:45 AM EDT
An AR15 should be able to digest any ammo. If I were having problems with Wolf Ammo, I might be inclined to bring my rifle to a gunsmith. My Bushy eats Wolf ammo like candy. Another reason for a chrome chamber.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:16:20 AM EDT
I've shot it without too many problems until my last range visit.. one round dented primer, no fire,,2nd bad round slight delay after trigger pull,, third problem round had a good 1 to 2 second delay before it went off, long enough for my buddy to take the rifle from his shoulder and look at the ejection port... kind of scary.... I think no more Wolf for me....
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:24:35 AM EDT
As the Product Tech here at Cheaper Than Dirt, I have heard all of what has been stated above and more. I have not found any of it to be true. I have shot Wolf exclusively for about 1 1/2 years now and have yet to have a malfunction in my DPMS AR-15, Glock 19 or Maadi AK-47. Maybe I am just lucky? I know I have shot at least 1,000 through my AR and only spraying Gun Scrubber through the action to knock the dust and carbon build up out of the action. I also have not used a chamber brush since the last 1,000 rds so I could see if the build up would cause a case to stick in my chamber but they havn't.
I also know from selling Wolf Ammo that there was a problem with the .223 chambering in some Match Chambers, this is due to the red sealant that was used to seal the bullet from moisture. Because of this they do not seal the bullets anymore just the primers. Wolf ammo is good, cheap ammo that I will continue to use.

Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:47:48 AM EDT
Those of you doing well with Wolf ammo are probalby more lucky than anything else.

I have been working at Los Altos Rod and Gun Club for three years now, and have seen my fair share of oddities. Here are a few:

Lacquer buildup - yes, it does happen. It tends to cause stuck cases more than anything else, and requires diligent use of the cleaning rod and brick in extreme cases.

Primers - while they are getting better, Wolf is second to CCI Blazer in failures to fire that I have seen.

Cases - The AR chamber (and most American firearms in general) is designed specifically to feed and function with Brass cases. Difference? Brass has more "spring" to it and shrinks slightly more after firing, while steel tends to stay conformed to the chamber. This can also lead to sticky extraction, and the use of the "pull and bump" to strip the case out of the chamber.

Bullets - Wolf used to use Steel jackets for their bullets, and some older batches can still be found. Steel on Steel = F'ed up rifling over time. This has been corrected - jackets are now a modified gilding metal alloy (extra Tin and Lead, I think) Steel cores are still, IIRC, fairly common. Steel cores are not a problem with the AR - SS109 is steel core and my homebuilt preban made from assorted parts eats the stuff all day long.

Quite a few AR problems are user related - generally caused by overoiling. The extra coe and ash created by the propellant used in Wolf Ammo causes these problems to compound each other, and can cause all sorts of strange malfunctions.

I have only seen one case of breakage, and it is something that was aggravated by the use of Wolf ammo, and not directly caused by it. I found an extractor claw lying on the bench, and upon inspection found that the casting for the claw had a "void" - miniscule air pocket. The case may have stuck just enough to have caused failure of the claw and breakage, but this is something that still would have happened (later) using brass-case ammo.

For people wanting a good, cheap ammo to use in their ARs - I most often recommend Euroammo surplus (Portuguese and Spanish work well) or American Eagle (made by Federal Cartridge Co, the same people that brought us the Hydra-Shok.)

I mainly shoot Spanish - Santa Barbara Armoury production - SS109 surplus and love it. I will also shoot Lake City or WCC when I can find it, and LC is my personal favourite.

If you reload for your AR, make DAMN sure you full-length resize EVERY time, or you are asking for malfunctions. RCBS has released a new style of die that is supposed to limit or eliminate case growth in FL resizing, and I am awaiting reports. I think they call it the "X" die. Anyone care to offer info on this?

One last point - for those of you who buy "gun show" or "white box" reloads - DO buy a case headspace gage. I have found it common for these cases to NOT be FL resized (in .223, .308, 9mm, and .45 ACP) and this causes trouble in semiauto firearms. The gage is cheap enough (you don't need a Redding, a Midway gage will serve well) and give any "white box" ammo you have a good spot-checking before it goes on strippers or in mags.

FFZ
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 1:27:12 PM EDT
I've got a Match Target Colt, and have put about 500-700 rnds of Wolf through it. It accounts for the only FTE I've had, and the accuracy kinda sucks. Like 9" @ 100m. Used some S&B and it worked well, good accuracy, but read some negative stuff about it here and likely won't be using it anymore. Mine shoots UMC, Remington, Winchester and American Eagle REALLY well. Good groups, no FTE or FTF. I'm pretty much past the pull-the-trigger-as-fast-as-you-can stage, so I generally shoot the slightly more expensive stuff now.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 1:56:34 PM EDT
As far as the lacquer melting. After rapid or full-auto fire, do not leave another round chambered for too long until it cools down or you are ready to shoot again.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 2:15:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2002 2:16:13 PM EDT by SKSGuy]
Not to sound crass, but Wolf brand ammo and all of its cousins (State Unitary Enterprise, Barnaul, "Sporting Rifle Ammunition", etc) suck. They only suck in rifles really worthy of brass. This ammo works wonders in my Norinco Pre-Ban SKS, but I would never put it in my HK or .22 S&W Handgun (yes, Wolf makes it). Even though my SKS was arguably made for this ammo, it still causes problems from time to time.

Just don't do it in your AR15, or really anything over $500 in value. Just my opinion.

Link Posted: 3/21/2002 5:25:05 PM EDT
The only problem I've had in 1000 rounds is 2 primers that didn't go boom. Accuracy is good enough to shoot prarie dogs at 200+ yards with my postban Bushie 20" HBAR. A little dirty but that is what a cleaning kit is for. Can't beat the price.
Steve
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