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Posted: 3/16/2002 6:36:25 AM EDT
I would like to see groups under an inch.
What do you guys think I should do next? I think the wind today could account for an 1/8 or so, but that's it.

Test Sat March 9, 2002. A2 style after a rechamber to 5.56 match for reliability sake.
All groups at 100 yards off of front and rear bags with a 12 power scope and aimtech mount (the cheap aimtech mount has in the past held better than the ARMS model)
All were 5 shot groups, and I am reporting total size and closest 3. I used a sewing ruler and measured from the start of one hole to the start of another. 1/8 was a close as I could get, so I rounded up or down as seemed correct.
The gun had liked ultramax with the nosler bullets, but I was out of that today. Wind was calm, temps in the low 50s, just when I was bringing the target stand in was when the big storm front hit.


3 shots all 5 shots
Q3131A
1. 1” 2 ½”
2. 1 ½ 2 ½
3. ½ 1 ¼

IMI 855 ball
1. 1 3/8 3 ½
2. 7/8 3 ½
3. 5/8 1 ¾

PMC mid 80s 55 gr ball
1. 1 ½ 2 3/8
2. 1 ¼ 2 1/8

Black Hills 55 gr FMJ
1. ¾ 1 5/8
2. 1 ½ 1 ¾

Federal prem 55 gr Sierra gameking BTHP
1. 7/8 1 ¾
2. ¾ 1 ¾


Sat, March 16th---under 20degrees, wind from the right at 10-15, sunny (had to take far right shooting pos to be in shadow)

AR15A2—

Q 3131A—5 shots
1. 1 5/8
2. 2



10 shot Q3131A
2 ½

Black Hills 68 gr match 5 shots
1. 2
2. 1 5/8
3. 1 5/8

Black Hills 52 gr match 5 shots
1. 1 ½
2. 1 5/8
3. 1 3/8


H&R M1 w/NM sights
Talon M2 ball 5 shots
1. 4 3/8
2. 5 3/8
3. 4
4. 6 ¼
5. 4 7/8
Good functioning, odd smell, brass stamped LC 45, odd pull marks on bullets.

Oh, I threw in some data from the Talon I just got which I shot in my M1. The M1 will go an inch with good varget or 4064 handloads and pricey bullets from sierra.

Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:01:40 AM EDT
1. Do not expect match grade accuracy from any fmj-military ball ammo. Some rifles will shoot it under an inch but 2 inchs is a more realistic expectation.
2.How many lbs. does your trigger break at? My rifle lets go at 5.5lbs. and is the second biggest contributor to accuracy problems next to me. It takes alot of concentration to consistently shoot small groups with a trigger that heavy.
3. My rifle likes the cheap Black Hills Blue box 55 soft point and will shoot the 50gr V-max well if I do my part.
4. What was the temperature last Saturday? I do not shoot groups worth a dang if it is cold out.
5. You mentioned that the chamber has been reamed to 5.56 match. Do you have an extra long throat for the heavy 69gr and up bullets. This could be a factor as the shorter bullets have to jump to the rifling farther and have more chance to engage the rifling cockeyed.
I do not see anything to be to worried about. you mentioned that you handload for your M1, Try reloading for your AR and I think you will see a noticable improvement using quality bullets. No fmj falls in the accuracy department in my experience, they are not consistent enough in their manufacture.

FWIW.

Lee
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:03:56 AM EDT
Also what is your rate of twist in the barrel?
If 1:9 or 1:10 it should handle the light bullets well. If it is a 1:7 it may not like anything under 60gr
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 9:11:37 AM EDT
The barrel is 1/9 on the AR, and the trigger is set over 4.
I was quite surprised about the 10 shot group of Q3131A. That was the same size as the 5 shots the last trip out.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 10:39:56 AM EDT
Simply because I can't find where you've tried them and because it's cheap and easy try your favorite with a '62gr' bullet.

(after that "nailbender's" thought about 69gr. bullets may be the next in order.)

What rifle ? Heavy target barrel ??
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 12:35:38 PM EDT
OK, so rate of twist should not be an issue, but I did think of one thing that could be affecting your ability to repeat good groups.
You say you have an A2. I assume then that the scope is up on the carry handle, yes.
This means that your face is not very tight on the buttstock unless you have an extension on top of it.
This makes it very hard to align your eyeball in the same realation to the scope with each shot.
Hope you dont think that I am picking on your shooting ability, but I heard an adage once about the equipment versus human error factor.
"It aint the arrows, its the Indian"
I maybe am to quick to blame myself for bad groups, that is why I tend to shoot several groups ( at least 5 ) with a given load on differant days to see how they stack up and then take the average as what the gun, load and me factor comes up to.
Lee
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