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Posted: 3/15/2002 6:44:42 PM EDT
well, im going to have my permit at the end of the month and at present only have my P89, which is way to heavy to conceal. Ive been looking at the taurus pt111. the size, price and looks are appealing but i must have the advise of my friends at ar15.com before any weapons are bought.

Link Posted: 3/15/2002 7:01:47 PM EDT
Pompey,

P89 too heavy? Get a decent gun belt and holster; however, if that doesn't work...

I carry an HK USP 45 Compact. Weight's just right for me, and it's a tad smaller than what I used to carry daily (Sig P220).

If price is an issue (and it usually is), I'd prefer a Glock 19. It's fairly small, shoots cheap (yet very effective) ammo, and I wouldn't feel like crying if I dropped the damn thing and it slid across some pavement (ah, the day that happened to my pretty, brand new Beretta 92 FS). The thing will also last forever, too.

Fact is, any Glock (with the big 45 and 10mm the possible exceptions) conceals well.

Well, that's my two cents. Hope it helps.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 7:32:59 PM EDT
now why does it not suprise me that a glock would come up! i looked at the glock 26, its nice but pricey. if i could get away with saving a hundred bucks on the taurus, which is actually lighter, id be happy. hmmm, i might have to just see if theyll let me shoot one down at the range.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 7:45:58 PM EDT
I would stick with what you are interested in, and what you can afford. (I would stay away from Lorcin and Jennings, and similar manufacturers.) I suggest you go to a range and rent a couple to see what you like, and check out that Taurus.

If you end up spending more money to get a Glock, if you can, you might as well save a little more and get an HK.

However, I do agree that a Glock is bulletproof (pun intended)... but presonally, I always like to have the best.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 8:27:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 8:31:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2002 8:54:57 PM EDT by bill3508]
I carry a Glock 26 in a comp-tac shirt tucker holster. I can wear it with any outfit. The G26 is a nice shooter, very little recoil for quick follow-ups. You seem like your looking for a subcompact gun so you really don't want a Beretta 92 or any HK USP. I have a 92 but its just for the house, way to heavy to conceal.
Bill3508
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 9:13:36 PM EDT
At the gun shop, I carry a Glock 30 with the A&G grip extension over a 13rd. Glock 21 mag. H&K's are great weapons, but there's nothing wrong with Glock's. Spend the extra $$ on ammo & acsessories...
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 9:28:57 PM EDT
How about a nice used Kimber Compact?
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 9:29:21 PM EDT
The Taurus PT111 is NOT one of the better firearms.

I USED to own one. First off, the trigger pull is way over 12 lbs. It is very hard to get a hit with it. It is also a pain to disassemble.


You would be MUCH better served saving your money for a glock 26. I sold my PT11, after asking him 10 times if he really wanted it because it was a POS! After he bought it, and remarked how he could not hit pie plate at 15 yards because of the heavy ass trigger pull. He sold it almost immediately as well.

We bought the PT111, took it to the range, and bought a Glock 26 two days later. You really would be much better served by the Glock. If you need cheap, the Taurus model 85 revolvers are nice, but stay away from the PT111!!

There, have I warned you enough yet? It is the ONLY firearm I do not regret selling. E-mail me if you have more questions. My fiancee' could not shoot it at all!

I currently carry a Kimber Custom CDP. That is a full size 1911. Get a good holster, and you can conceal anything!
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 9:44:20 PM EDT
I cary a Kimber Custom CDP II as well. I use a Galco Royal Guard IWB holster and a Galco SB5 belt. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE VALUE OF A GOOD GUN BELT! A good belt makes the whole thing a lot more stable and it will last a lot longer.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 9:45:58 PM EDT
I just recently received my CCW license. I ended up with an HK USP compact 40SW after trying out several different guns at the range. I think the most important thing I found was finding a gun that fit my hand so that after 150 practice rounds my hand didnt feel like it had been beat to death. If you are going to carry you should be proficient with your gun. Also, 40SW ammo can be found at good prices. Cliff Notes: Get a good gun that fits your hand and make sure you can afford the ammo to practice with. hinking.gif
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 10:47:27 PM EDT
I know there are some people who are gonna disagree with me on this.. but here goes:

Go out, buy yourself a Kel-Tec P-11 in 9mm... or if you think 9mm is just for plinking, get the P-40. I also have heard, but not confirmed, there is a .357 sig barrel available for the p-11/p-40

I chose to go with a P-11 in 9mm... I have about 500 rounds through this pistol without FTF or jam of any sort. I paid $250 new and shelled out another 20 for a spare magazine. They will also take S&W 5900-6900 series magazines (up to 32rd hi-cap). Stock magazine holds 10 rounds of 9mm... plenty for me. The pistol is lightweight, even when fully loaded. It's small enough to conceal well (even on my 5'10 130pound frame), but big enough to shoot accurately. Accurate being 2-4 inch groups at 21 feet from an unsupported position, and not being familiar with the long DAO trigger pull.

It's not pretty, it's not a Glock or Kimber.. but it goes bang every time. I havn't had a problem with it yet, and can think of none that I couldn't remedy in less than 3 seconds. It comes apart for cleaning very easily.. and strips down to pins and springs in a few minutes. I've only cleaned mine twice. About every 250 rounds. I wouldn't feel bad if I dropped it and scratched it up... I dont think it'd complain either. I WOULD STAKE MY LIFE on this gun, and thats what I bought it for: CCW.

Thats my two pennys... take 'em for what it's worth.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 11:09:35 PM EDT
My carry gun is a Glock 23. It's light, conceals well, and is chambered for a much more effective caliber. I use an IWB holster, and with the types of shirts that I wear you can't see anything. Sometimes, I will even drop my Kel-Tec P40, or my Bersa .380 in my pocket to use as a backup. Don't laugh at the .380, it's a lot more effective that dialing 911.

Vulcan94
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 10:41:09 AM EDT
If you are intent of carrying a gun for personal defense don’t mess around. Don’t skimp out on your carry gun or gear. Don’t rationalize buying a lighter or cheaper or smaller gun you can’t shoot well just because you don’t think you can conceal the bigger, heavy, more expensive gun that you can make hits with. Don’t choose a personal defense gun on stats alone any more than you would purchase one because I told you gun "x, y, or z" will absolutely work the best for you. Carry the largest gun you can shoot well and conceal effectively. Don’t automatically assume you can’t conceal this gun or that gun just because it looks too big or feels too heavy. Most people would be surprised with how large of a gun they can actually carry and conceal comfortably if they just tried. Too many people spend $600+ on the newest compact rock em’ sock em’ tactical-super-blaster only to put the gun in a $20 holster hanging off a $10 department store belt. This doesn’t work too well for too long and soon the gun, no matter what its size or weight, becomes a burden to carry. So eventually the operator chooses to leave the gun in a nightstand drawer because of his own poor choices in gear instead of carrying it like he should have. Large guns, depending on the person, can easily conceal well. It has been my experience that the overall thickness of the gun has allot more to do with ease of concealability that the length of the barrel or grip.

Pompey - If your P89 works for you and you can shoot it well by all means carry it. If the P89 doesn’t work for you spend the time and the money at the range and rent some guns to find out what works best for you. Once you find that out buy the best gun you can afford and good carry rig from a reputable maker such as Milt Sparks, Alessi Leather, Kramer, Delfatti, Bulman, G. Wm. Davis, etc. After all of that the most important thing to do is practice. Don’t shoot your gun once or twice or even only every six months and assume you’ll now how to use it in a lethal confrontation because you won‘t. Shooting skills, like most things, have to be maintained with routine practice. So once you’ve decided what gun you shall carry shoot it often and shoot it allot. Not only will frequent practice help hone your skills it will also give you a good idea about what works in terms of gun leather and accessories but most importantly practice keeps you sharp. Too many people buy a gun shoot it once and rest on their ever-spreading laurels that they are now "safe". This is no good and when the chips are down and you have to shoot because your life depends on it you’ll wish you had a bigger and better gun. You’ll wish that you had practiced more and that when you had drawn your gun that ever so economical $10 nylon holster wasn’t hanging off your muzzle, ‘cause it wasn‘t securely attached to begin with. Think, plan, train, and do it right the first time.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 10:55:57 AM EDT
I agree completely with Matt_S about the fact that "The Taurus PT111 is NOT one of the better firearms."

In fact I will go one step further and say that all Taurus auto pistols are poor quality.
I have owned 2. One was decent for what I used it for but the one I needed to depend on turned into junk only after a few boxes of ammo. Loose as a goose there autos are.
Even a CZ is a better option.
where in AZ are you? E-mail me I will get you a good deal on a glock or whatever you want. My buddy owns a shop in Scottsdale.

John


Link Posted: 3/16/2002 11:13:45 AM EDT
One thing that would concern me around my area if we got CCW is if you ever have to use your carry gun in self defense theres a good chance you won't get it back from the police after the investigation,even if its considered a rightous shoot. I'd hate to pay alot of money for a weapon then not get it back. Thats why I wouldn't pay the money for a Kimber or Sig. CAPITALIST
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 11:43:14 AM EDT
I also live in Az and my carry gun depends on weather/clothes. If I can wear a jacket all day I carry a G23 or Kimber Pro Elite. Shorts and a Tee shirt...I slide a Kel-tec p32 in the front pocket of my kaki shorts and it disapears.

Back to your carry gun. I really haven't heard much good about the pt111, my vote is for the kel tec p11, a good all around gun.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 12:10:20 PM EDT
Capitalist...what's your life worth?

Your argument of "not getting your gun back" doesn't really wash...and it's not like you live in the PRC (People's Republic of California). I've never, ever, heard of anyone in a righteous shoot NOT getting their weapon back.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that EVERY jurisdiction required you to surrender your weapon permanently after a shooting. Let's say that you'd never get your gun back, under any circumstance.

I'd still carry the best weapon I could afford and practice with. I'll never, ever, take shortcuts (or try to save money) on something that'll defend myself and my family.

That's my additional two cents.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 1:01:22 PM EDT
"I also have heard, but not confirmed, there is a .357 sig barrel available for the p-11/p-40."

I can confirm that there is a .357SIG barrel for the P-40.

I've owned a P-11 for about a year and a half. It is a fine pistol regardless of its price. A mini-Glock may be better. A PT-111, from everything I have read, will be worse, although I don't have first-hand experience.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 1:29:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2002 1:30:51 PM EDT by AJohnston]
Capitalist - That sounds like a poor excuse to justify not spending allot of money on a CCW and isn’t really a valid argument. If your weapon is confiscated after a shooting that is later ruled to be justifiable you will get that weapon back and if you don’t it will most likely be due to your lack of trying. Laws pertaining to due process may apply here. On top of that states and local municipalities don’t generally have the right or jurisdiction to hold personal property with out justification. A shooting that has been ruled justifiable would provide no basis for prolonged confiscation. A lawyer would probably be most helpful in a situation like this and if you have been involved in a shooting you will probably have already retained legal council. I have personally reclaimed weapons that were once stolen from me and were later recovered during an arrest for illegal drug activities. It was a no hassle sort of deal. I didn’t even need a lawyer. Carry what you will but don’t confuse being smart with being cheap.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:54:26 PM EDT
I'm not cheap. My point was why spend all the money for Kimbers and the like when you can get a Glock, Ruger and many others that are very fine weapons for much cheaper. Do what you want.In many areas where there are liberal judges that don't believe in the second amendment its been known to happen where that kind of Judge won't release any firearm back to the owner. I have several friends in the Sherriffs department that back up what I just said. They have first hand knowledge of several judges not returning weapons back to thier owners even after they were proven innocent of any firearms charges. Sure many of the people got a lawyer to petition the court to return thier firearms. Some have got them back after spending two or three times what the gun was worth in attorney's fees to do so. Others have petioned the court for there guns and the police department has had them destroyed by the time they went before the judge. I know what I'm talking about in my area. Your areas may very. CAPITALIST
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 11:48:03 AM EDT
well, you really have given me alot to think about. thanks for all your input and im not so sure ill buy the taurus. you see! this sight works!!!
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 6:11:06 PM EDT
Yo, AZ dudes,

Since Pompey is trying to select a carry piece, we could all be nice guys and meet at Ben Avery gun range and let him try out some different weapons. And hey, since we are being good smaritans it's like going shooting for a good cause!

Any interest?

James
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 6:41:11 PM EDT
i carry a springfield ultra compact lightweight with wilson slimline diamondwood grips and a 7 round wilson magazine and 2 extra in my pocket, great for these hot alabama summers, i use an inside the waistband for all my 1911s. in the winter i carry my full size wilson combat or my new colt m1911a1 replica. i carry 230 grain federal hydra-shok. my guns are all totally reliable.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 7:21:18 PM EDT
I carry a glock 30 in a Sidearmor IWB. my friends haven't said anything yet, so I guess they haven't noticed it
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 7:26:39 PM EDT
Don't get the PT111. I had a PT140, and like everyone else said, the trigger is HEAVY and ROUGH! It didn't go bang every time. I had 3 light primer strikes out of 10 rounds and decided at that point to sell it.

If you like the price of the PT111, get the Kel-Tec P11. You'll probably save some money and get a better pistol.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 7:41:57 PM EDT
K&Y imports has some used Glock 22's w/night sites going for $390. The One I got was in like new condition.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 10:22:20 PM EDT
jimmybcool: thanks for the offer, thats cool!

well friends, in my day back in the roman empire, we had a saying, de gustibus non disputandem est. you cant argue taste. I shot the pt111 and loved it, so i bought it and put 200 rnds through it and not one problem. the trigger pull isnt bad (for me) and i noticed the faster i fire it the more accurate i was. hell i dont know, maybe it took the brain tension out of it or something but the more i tried to hit the spot, the worse i shot, while the quicker i shot, it just came back down over the black. well, thanks for all your input, i listened, i learned and ultimately personal preference won. see ya at the range.
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