P99 in 9mm.

USP40C, Philadelphia_GunMan, & ronin47

Have you guys ever even considered the Black Market that always exists in a time of strife/war? The Black Market will be selling captured/stolen military gear including ammo. Now do you understand the logic?

I personally do not see myself engaging in a firefight every time I need a few boxes of ammo.

I understand that everyone has a favorite caliber. I personally LOVE my .38.  But the fact of the matter is that NATO is the way to go in a time of strife/war.

Now I am going to put my flame retardent suit.

   Walther P99 QA - 17rd capacity

   Springield Mil-Spec - 11rd capacity

   Ruger Mk II pistol - 11rd capacity

   Walther and the .45 on a double shoulder holster. The ruger holstered to my LBE pistol belt. All extra pistol mags carried in one LBE ammo pouch. All ar15 mags in the other. All this leaves my hands free for lock-n-loading my ar15. Oh I will also have my shotgun (590A1) strapped off to the top of my rucksack (large)

   The P99 for nato compatablility. The .45 cause it would be a sin against the pistol gods to go to battle without one. The Ruger .22 for small game aquisition and you can haul alot of ammo in a small container.

Why in the hell if you were going to carry 3 handguns, would they all be different?  If buy some crazy chance I decided to carry three handguns, you can bet the would all be the same type, and sure as hell be the same caliber.  Not that I would carry 3 at one time.  Two, in most all cases would be sufficient.

Sure, carrying mulitple types in the movies looks good, but for practicality....please.  You would have to carry 3 guns (heavy), 3 different types of ammo (heavy), 3 different types of mags, at 2 mags apiece, that is six mags right there (heavy), nothing is interchangable...etc.

If by some crazy chance I would end up carrying 3 pistols, we will us a Sig analogy here, It would be two P226 and a P228, all using 226 17rd. Mags.  

-Completely interchangeable (w/ exception for 228, which most parts interchange)
-One type of ammo
-same ergonomics
-mags are universal


...I am sure there is more, but am having a brain meltdown from typing so much...

No flame intended, but it seems silly to me to pack around that much different firepower unless you are being filmed...


Edited to say; HOLY CRAP, you are going to carry an AR and a Shotgun on top of that?  Plus Ammo?  Hope you are in damn good shape

Quoted: Why in the hell if you were going to carry 3 handguns, would they all be different?  If buy some crazy chance I decided to carry three handguns, you can bet the would all be the same type, and sure as hell be the same caliber.  Not that I would carry 3 at one time.  Two, in most all cases would be sufficient. Sure, carrying mulitple types in the movies looks good, but for practicality....please.  You would have to carry 3 guns (heavy), 3 different types of ammo (heavy), 3 different types of mags, at 2 mags apiece, that is six mags right there (heavy), nothing is interchangable...etc. If by some crazy chance I would end up carrying 3 pistols, we will us a Sig analogy here, It would be two P226 and a P228, all using 226 17rd. Mags.   -Completely interchangeable (w/ exception for 228, which most parts interchange) -One type of ammo -same ergonomics -mags are universal ...I am sure there is more, but am having a brain meltdown from typing so much... No flame intended, but it seems silly to me to pack around that much different firepower unless you are being filmed... Edited to say; HOLY CRAP, you are going to carry an AR and a Shotgun on top of that?  Plus Ammo?  Hope you are in damn good shape

I'd just like to know who your talking about?



Anyway I thought of it this weekend and still don't know what one to get. I think I'm not going to get a 9mm do they will be all over the place.

I'd like to get another Glock in 40S&W or 45acp but the price is a little to much for me right now unless I can find the FAL for a good price and work gives me more hours.

Sombody PLEASE tell exactly what SHTF scenario we are all stocking up for?

I have so many calibers but you fellas have me scared

[>Q]

Quoted: I'd just like to know who your talking about?

Oh sorry, the fella just above my post, blackeye, who is going to pack an entire gunstore around with him...

The other tool.

TAYOUS1  you got your mind set on what you think would be best fo you.  We are not trying to tell you what gun you can afford right now, but you can go to your local pawn shop and get a good ,stevens,savage,mossenburg,marlin 12 guage pump for about 115.00 and with damn near any shot have a real by the bed -manstopper till you can afford that magical right pistol(which unless you buy a desert eagle 50 ) will never drop anybody like the shot-gun will..   just a thought  bob cole

Master_Blaster

That is one fine piece of work, and my next project. Almost bought one at Cheaper-Than-Dirt, about 9 months ago, couldn't swing the cash then, but it is coming.

Forgot to add by the way if you put a saboted slug in that 12 guage you get about a 70 cal round that will not only go plum through your perp but will take out your 65 chevy-nova and kill your neighbors cat,maybe even your neighbor.  Kinda like shooting a burgler with a 50cal bmg!  So go with steel shot#2 or 00,01 buck!  bob cole

I would go with the 1911. It was designed to win battles!

Unrepentant_Sinner Why in the hell if you were going to carry 3 handguns, would they all be different? If buy some crazy chance I decided to carry three handguns, you can bet the would all be the same type, and sure as hell be the same caliber. Not that I would carry 3 at one time. Two, in most all cases would be sufficient. Sure, carrying mulitple types in the movies looks good, but for practicality....please. You would have to carry 3 guns (heavy), 3 different types of ammo (heavy), 3 different types of mags, at 2 mags apiece, that is six mags right there (heavy), nothing is interchangable...etc. If by some crazy chance I would end up carrying 3 pistols, we will us a Sig analogy here, It would be two P226 and a P228, all using 226 17rd. Mags. -Completely interchangeable (w/ exception for 228, which most parts interchange) -One type of ammo -same ergonomics -mags are universal ...I am sure there is more, but am having a brain meltdown from typing so much... No flame intended, but it seems silly to me to pack around that much different firepower unless you are being filmed... Edited to say; HOLY CRAP, you are going to carry an AR and a Shotgun on top of that? Plus Ammo? Hope you are in damn good shape

      As a matter of fact I am in good shape. Anytime I go into the woods up here in the mountains of N. Georgia I am usually hiking (rucksack) and carrying two pistols in a camo double shoulder holster. The weight balances itself out so it is not that heavy. Always a .22 for small targets of opportunity and the 9 or 45 for larger beasts that mean to do me harm. It is not unusual for me to look down at my Garmin GPS toy and see I have strolled 6 or 7 miles.

   The .22 is for feeding myself and weight of ammo is not a factor. The 9mm would be my primary defense weapon due to mag capacity and nato round availability. The pistol gods demand a .45.

   This is a logical choice if you are already trained to carry a large load don't you think? I am not interested in looking good for camera's. If all hell breaks loose I see no need in taking pictures of something most people won't want to remember anyway.

    Your sig anlogy is fine but it sounds like you are going to be sitting on your front porch for SHTF. I believe the old saying train as you fight and fight as you train comes into focus. Except I turn my (training) into a hobby I enjoy and look forward to every weekend.

     I am not flaming you but it would seem silly to have a bunch of fancy weapons and be to out of shape to use the most important weapon you have.......the ability to run like hell when needed!!!! I am nothing special, just a 37 year old outdoorsmen that enjoys hiking, hunting, fishing and camping in exactly that order. I am sure there are thousands of people just like me because I bump into most of them on the trails I hike.

 

Quoted: USP40C, Philadelphia_GunMan, & ronin47 Have you guys ever even considered the Black Market that always exists in a time of strife/war? The Black Market will be selling captured/stolen military gear including ammo. Now do you understand the logic?

A good point. This is one of the reasons that whenever I have some extra cash lying around (not too often since I have an ex-wife) I buy some ammo in calibers for which I don't have guns (9mm, 7.62x39, etc.) -- just for potential barter purposes. And one of the main reasons that my primary firearm is an AR-15.

I personally do not see myself engaging in a firefight every time I need a few boxes of ammo.

Nor do I. But that's the only time that I'd have to worry about running out of ammunition. And the only scenario in which I'd have to worry if the other guy is using the same kind of ammo that I am. But since he's got ammo AND a gun for it, it's a non-issue.

I understand that everyone has a favorite caliber. I personally LOVE my .38.  But the fact of the matter is that NATO is the way to go in a time of strife/war.

And again, one of the reasons I like the .40S&W since it's fast becoming the most popular police caliber and will be available through your aforementioned black market.

Now I am going to put my flame retardent suit.

Yes, aren't we all issued Nomex underwear around here?

That is funny, BUY ammo from your neighbors, lolhr

Thats just what I was thinking.

blackeye, are you pulling our collective leg? trolling? 3 handguns...you only have 2 hands! i also believe in "train like you fight" and no one can fight when they are juggling 3 handguns, a rifle, a shotgun strapped to the pack and all of their assorted ammo/magazines. rifle/shotgun-sidearm-knife. done.

I guarantee you if something did happen you probally wouldn't use over 50 rounds. If you need more than that, you should have brought your rifle or got the hell out of there.

Think in a "SHTF" situation most probally your pistol would become a secondary weapon, unless you need to ditch your rifle and need something you need to easily conceal. If no worrys of checkpoints/being searched etc a high capacity pistol would be ideal, or whatever you carry and are comfortable with now.
For something concealable AirLite or something similar would be nice to have if you don't have one yet.

I have a Colt officer and a SW 649 .

I still want a high cap 9mm, I bought 5 high cap glock mags, and one of those 32 rounders, but no Glock yet. Sig keeps looking better and better though.

DvlDog blackeye, are you pulling our collective leg? trolling? 3 handguns...you only have 2 hands! i also believe in "train like you fight" and no one can fight when they are juggling 3 handguns, a rifle, a shotgun strapped to the pack and all of their assorted ammo/magazines. rifle/shotgun-sidearm-knife. done.

     I understand the yanking your chain remark but not the trolling one.......... I see others trolling with comments about what I have planned.

    Yes I have two hands and the only time a handgun would come into play is if I ran dry on ammo for my ar15. Alot of military personnel carry backup pistols. One of mine covers that and the other is for taking small game without destroying it and the other for the pistol gods. How hard is that to understand? In SHTF scenario, I would not have a resupply capability like the military would have. So yes I would carry all this.
      You make the comment about juggling all these weapons. As far as fighting with all this strapped to me have you ever heard of quick release straps on a rucksack?  It takes about three quick moves and the pack is off of you. I would drop the pack in a hearbeat and fight if it were a situation that I thought was winnable. If not, I would not be fighting but running like a mofo.
      Besides this stuff aint that heavy if you balance it correctly. They would be easily traded for food, a safe place to stay or maybe my freedom. Let me give you an example you can understand. It is hard to haul a 5 gal bucket of water uphill in one hand but when you have one in each hand it actually makes it easier because you are balanced.
     My statements are not guesstimates but are based on stuff I already can do. I am a woodsrat plain and simple. It is not that hard to pack a large rucksack with a first-aid pack, food, clothing, and gun supplies that would last you awhile. As far as water is concerned I have a small water filtration unit that is very lightweight and would save me a huge amount of weight for carrying water.
     Try it sometime.............    

Quoted: blackeye, are you pulling our collective leg? trolling? 3 handguns...you only have 2 hands! i also believe in "train like you fight" and no one can fight when they are juggling 3 handguns, a rifle, a shotgun strapped to the pack and all of their assorted ammo/magazines. rifle/shotgun-sidearm-knife. done.

my sentiments exactly...

I have two SHTF scenarios I plan for.

Most likely:
Home invasion badness, in which case the Sig 220 is the primary tool.

Unlikely:
General and nearly total breakdown and disturbance in the civil order...total chaos... Postman stuff.
In this case I am going to try to fort up (literally) with as many neighbors as possible, pooling resources and skills to provide mutual support and defence until order can be re-established.

No man is an island.  Your best opportunity for survival in a total breakdown scenario is to cooperate with other survivors around you finding doctors, mechanics, woodworkers, machinists, engineers, cops, firefighters, nurses, electricians, carpenters, ex-soldiers, businessmen, etc. and pooling their respective resources and talents so that the unit can operate more efficiently and effectively in a compromised environment.  You then have more eyes to watch, more bodies to work, more minds to puzzle out problems and more skills to implement practical solutions to those problems.  People to treat you when you are sick or injured, help you build a house, deliver children, bury the dead and provide safety in numbers from the occasional roving whacko who is out to pillage his way through the crisis at the expense of his neighbors.   If you handle this correctly, sooner or later you'll have a functioning community again, and those communities will be able to maintain their neighborhood and secure it, then they will be able to establish trade and communication with other villages, and before too long you are getting things back together again.

My personal preparations for that possibility are constantly evolving.  More important than firearms is a fair supply of life support technologies like water filters, water treatment chemicals like iodine and chlorine, cooking tools like dutch ovens, a good axe or two with a high quality file and a good coarse whetstone for sharpening it. A selection of high quality chisels, hammers, saws, a handplane or two, hammers, a spade or two, rope, come cordage.  A few good fixed blade knives.  Sharpening equipment for your edged tools (diamond stones wear well and will last a long time). A selection of books on carpentry, auto reprair books for your vehicles, a good wilderness first aid text or EMT manual. A good supply of first aid gear including sterile bandages, sterile gloves, surgical tools, a variety of over the counter drugs regularly rotated as their expiration dates come closer. Long term storage seeds and texts on harvesting and propagating seeds for food baring plants, etc.

You are NOT going to survive after total social breakdown out of a backpack, you can only manage that if you are content to take what you need from others. Other folks aren't gonna look too kindly on that either.

Again, by becoming part of your community you can work with the survivors in that community to re-establish some semblance of local order and mutual support.  If you go it alone, you've got no support, no recourse and only the supplies you yourself can gather and use.  

Just one man's opinion

Icemanat95, I totally agreed with you but.......I live right in the middle of them liberals home owners.  If they know that I own guns, they will either move out or chase me out of town.

Icemanat95,
My SHTF plans and equipment center around a frame pack, inderdiction vest, and a carry bag. I have a year of thought into what is contained inside them. They are to provide me with a month of subsistance IN THE CASE THAT I AM FORCED TO EVACUATE MY HOME.

In the instance of picking a SHTF pistol to react to a home evasion:
1)Given the option, there is no way I would choose a handgun over a long gun.
2)Why worry about that? I keep all my weapons in my home. There is no SHTF planning involved. If I have to react instantly from bed, i grab a loaded 45 clipped to the bed frame. During the day; perhaps just my CCW on my person will suffice.
If I have to retreat, I can grab a 16" AR and two 30's or a 12ga loaded with 00 from the armory.
There are alot of options, take away a man's home and those options are quite limited.

Hell, the guns and ammo are one of the few things I can count on having on hand at all times and dont have to worry about.
As far as a reacting to senerios where you can stay in your home; i concentrate on keeping plenty of food, bartar items (cigs, booze), and water on hand.  

In response to the thread:
My SHTF evac pack calls for a full size springfield .45 and a ultra-compact .45. I only pack the full-size mags.

AR-Rifle,

If the SHTF that hard, the sudden realization that you are armed and willing to help them will come as a welcome relief.  Until then, what they don't know can't hurt them.

I have a wife and two kids, my bug out plans involve a pick up truck. However, I live out in the sticks with a bit of a buffer between me and large population centers. So whatever event fouled things up would have to be pretty huge to drive me out of my home.

Mostly I prep for things like icestorms, power outages, the possibility of a bio attack that forces us into quarantine conditions and other short term disturbances. I keep lots of water on hand, plenty of non-perishable food items, plus flour, rice, etc.   As a long time backpacker and winter mountaineer I have loads of tents and sleeping bags, sleeping pads, water filters, a small pile of backpacking stoves (all in good working order) etc.  All of those items translate well to short term survival situations.  I also have a decent supply of hand tools, nails, screws, etc. I'm weak on plumbing and electrical experience.  My ammo supplies are adequate for likely needs. If I need to shoot more than that, chances are things have gone really far into the outhouse.

All that said, the short term disasters listed above are much more likely than anything that would truly change the face of the nation.

Unrepentant_Sinner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: blackeye, are you pulling our collective leg? trolling? 3 handguns...you only have 2 hands! i also believe in "train like you fight" and no one can fight when they are juggling 3 handguns, a rifle, a shotgun strapped to the pack and all of their assorted ammo/magazines. rifle/shotgun-sidearm-knife. done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- my sentiments exactly...

   It's really a shame we can't have an ADULT discussion about this. I guess you experts can't understand something you are either unable or unwilling to try. I think you need to realize one very important thing. I have already tested what I am claiming. You are just blindly shooting something down with guesstimates or your opinion. No problem, your opinions mean about as much to me as the last turd I just flushed before I got back on my puter. Here I think you left one of these lying around.............
   
     

I never thought that this post would go so far.

Anyway I'm thinking of the 357mag and 45acp right now. I 'm going to hold off until I get out of boot camp to get one of these.

But I still want to hear what you have to say.