Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/13/2002 5:22:37 PM EDT
Just a crazy thought I had...I think this gun would be awesome. I wanted a chrome lined barrel (for an excellent overall SHTF gun), so I opted away from the M1A scout. Now, while I do have the money to do this (kinda ), it's QUITE expensive and at the current price level I'm opting away from it. Take a look, and if you can recommend any changes, please do. I tried to include S/H in the prices (didn't know exactly how much the gun itself would run...)


M1A project

$1050 - Stock SA M1A Standard, walnut stock

$610 - TA01B ACOG 4x32; lit crosshair, calibrated for .308 caliber - http://www.dsarms.com/acog.htm

$200 - ARMS #18 Mount

$360 - 10 M-14 Mags - http://www.coledistributing.com/storefront.asp?i=&pageno=31&cat=Magazines

$179 - 1000 rounds .308 Porgueese Ball ammo - http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_308.htm

$70 - Vortex M14 / M1A Flash Hider - http://www.entreprise.com/Catalog/FHBrakes/M14fh.htm

$90 - Harris bipod with No. 2R Adapter for the M1A

$50 - 2 Excellent-grade synthetic stocks. Refinish them myself. One woodland camo, the other artic - http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/stocks.asp

$70+ (labor) - Bushgun - Taking barrel down to 18" or 19" and attaching flash hider

$40 - Misc. (sling, etc)

Total: $2519 (ouch!)
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 5:32:42 PM EDT
also, I could get a LNIB preban M1A for around $1200...that a deal worth taking up?

I've heard some things about springfield armory's build quality with the older M1As. This one was bought new in 1990, so probably made a bit before that...

Robby
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 6:10:48 PM EDT
I do not know how much hands on you have with the M1A but I would do the folowing,
1.Get over sticker shock after looking at SA's website. I did not pay that much for my NM preban.

2. Shop around and find someone looking to sell there loaded. You want the med wt nm barrel over the standard GI barrel.

3. Buy a Leatherwood scope. The power range 3X9 it has a built in rangefinder and bullet drop. it is also less than half the cost. $279.00

4. Use A gen three mount. Mine is a SA and they were running around $150.00 But I could not find it on SA's website.

5. Good deal if they are GI. If they are not don't buy em.

6. Buy Hirtenburger or Isreali .308 they are both better than the Portugese. Also the south african shoots pretty good.

7. Stick with the GI type flash hider.

8. Go with the Harris bipod

9. Sell the walnut and buy your synthetic stocks.

10. Leave the barrel alone. By the time you ad the optics and bipod it really isn't a bush rifle. Battle zero is 400m and that ballistic advantage may come in handy.

11. Learn to use it to full effect.

My M1A left the factory in 1978. It has a med wieght NM barrel NM flash hider and front sight. I removed the NM rear sight and replaced it with a standard GI type. I have a Redfield 4X12 with range finder, bullet drop and adjustable AO. It carries through the woods fine and shoots very well with good ammo. In the end it is your gun and you need to do what will make you happy but you asked for opinions. I do not know about later produced M1As. Like I said mine was made in 1978 and very little outside the reciever and barrel are not GI
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 6:29:20 PM EDT
Why M1-A if you are going to spend that kind of gilt, ever thought about an AR/10...just a thought...
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 11:15:29 PM EDT
Leave the SA 3rd Gen mount alone. I had one, and it's made of aluminum, with over-sized rails, so you can mate it to the receiver. You do this by mounting it, tightening the screw, and "Hitting" the mount on either side of the front screw with a hammer. No sh*t, SA actually tells you to hit your too-expensive new rifle with a hammer. Un-f*cking believable. Well, I tried it, and thought I had it mated up OK, but when I took it to the range, the scope wouldn't zero. Come to find out that the aluminum the mount is made of is so soft that the mating rails were deforming under recoil, causing the mount to shift. Stick with the ARMS #18. You'll be very glad you didn't throw any money away on the POS SA mount.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 11:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robbyd:
$179 - 1000 rounds .308 Porgueese Ball ammo - http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_308.htm



Portuguese FNM .308 is great ammo. Fulton Armory uses it to function test their rifles.

AIM has a case of this ammo (1K) for $139 delivered up until March 15th.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 11:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Why M1-A if you are going to spend that kind of gilt, ever thought about an AR/10...just a thought...



Eh, an M14 is going to cost you some dough, no matter which way you cut it. Granted, for the same price you can get a (in my opinion) higher quality AR10, but sometimes its good to have a tricked out M1A - just to say that you have one
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:26:10 PM EDT
Come to find out that the aluminum the mount is made of is so soft that the mating rails were deforming under recoil, causing the mount to shift. Stick with the ARMS #18. You'll be very glad you didn't throw any money away on the POS SA mount.

I have had an SA gen 3 mount on my rifle for about three and a half years. The only problem I have had was getting the pin out of the charger guide for the second screw. So after reading Zardoz's reply I checked it out. The mount does not leave rifle so to my surprise the alignment rib has a big flattened spot in it. I guess I am going to be in the market for a new scope mount.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:35:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Why M1-A if you are going to spend that kind of gilt, ever thought about an AR/10...just a thought...



An AR-10 tricked out the same way would cost about that much.

Have you seen the prices for 10Ts? Outrageously expensive for aluminum and plastic.

For robbyd:

I can save you some money and offer a bit of info that might help.

ACOG is a bad idea. The eye relief is just too short; you'll end up being smacked in the eye with the scope. Furthermore the M1A is just a poor scope platform. It can be made good, but only with a lot of work and luck. The ARMS mount is very good, but still isn't a Brookfield and can shake loose under firing. The M1A stock needs a cheekpiece just to have a good cheek weld for the iron sights, much less a scope.

The Vortex flash hider is a waste of money. The standard M-14 flash hider works very well at night.

Just say no to the bipod adaptor. You are better off taking the sling loop off the M-14 stock and drilling a hole to mount a sling swivel. This mounts the bipod directly to the stock without a cumbersome interface.

The stocks won't cost you $25 a piece if you refinish them yourself. Fiberglass stocks run about $15, and the materials required to fix them up for use on an M1A (and make them look nice too) won't be an extra $10, believe me.

Why a Bushgun? That's just curiousity on my part, not a criticism. Personally, if I were going for a short-barreled .308 I'd get an FAL Para or AR-10 Carbine and go from there.



I built up my pre-ban M1A into a kind of SHTF sharpshooter's rig. I use a Springfield Gen. 3 mount (after trying a couple of different mounts), Springfield 6x Rangefinding scope, Harris bipod attached to the stock as described above, a leather lace-on cheekpiece (for the irons) with a detachable homemade cheekpiece for the scope, and 14 USGI mags loaded with Hornady TAP rounds. It has sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards, and is accurate enough to make consistent kill shots on human silhouettes (including partially concealed targets) out to 800 yards. Much farther than 800 yds. is too far to hit a human target (at least in my experience).
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:57:01 PM EDT
I agree with Zardoz, don't waste your money on the gen3 mount my rails are smashed too, and I have to re-tighten the front screw every few magfulls. I also think the mount is way too heavy due to the large screws. Looking to replace it soon.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 3:05:07 PM EDT
Thanks everybody for the tips and experiences!
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 3:28:48 PM EDT
lrfc2 and t_man, I discovered the same thing on my mount not too long ago. I called Springfield about it and talked with one of their tec's and was told that this is normal and to tighten the nuts (the forward one first, then the one that goes in the stripper clip guide) on the mount VERY tight when remounting. I was told the reason the mount was soft in that spot so each unit would mate to a particular receiver and there would be very little loss of zero when remounting. I don't know, just relaying what I was told. Mine seems to have no problems yet.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 6:39:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t_man:
I agree with Zardoz, don't waste your money on the gen3 mount my rails are smashed too, and I have to re-tighten the front screw every few magfulls. I also think the mount is way too heavy due to the large screws. Looking to replace it soon.



I've not had that problem with my Gen 3 mount yet. I've noticed that a lot of people who use it and experience failures have a problem with the screws shaking loose, or that they didn't mount them tight enough in the first place. A little bit of locktite or threadlocker will keep the rails from shifting, because the screws do most of the holding. The older Springfield mounts don't work no matter what, but the Gen 3 can and does work if you mount it with the idea that it's going to be pretty permanent (ergo, screws tightened as far as possible and locktited).

The ARMS has the automatic advantage of being made of steel and not aluminum. It is not lighter though, and mounts in a similar fashion as the Gen 3 (although it doesn't use the stripper clip guide mounted screw block).

Any mount that one uses for the M1A has to be assumed to be permanent. The idea that a mount is removeable (even though that's what Springfield advertises) is completely ludicrous. You have to mount that sucker on there so tight and with locktite that it ain't coming off in the field without a hammer and cutting torch. So, if you really want the idea of a "multi-sighted" weapons system you should get something better suited for it, like an AR-10.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 11:45:40 AM EDT
Alright, few more questions:

Is 1150 - 1200 good for a pre-ban M1A standard with syn stock. It's been shot about 10 times I believe, and to me it seems like a good deal.

Also, if I do get the preban, I'd either like to get a stock with a pistol grip (what I really want) or a folding stock (from what I heard they can be had but are expensive and out of production). As far as a M1A stock with the pistol grip, does anyone have and recommendations with this? I can and do shoot "rifle rifles" but prefer the pistol grip stocks for ease of use and control.

Thanks,

Robby
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 1:08:13 PM EDT
Robby as per other post you need seriously look the AR10. www.armalite.com If you find an E2 stock or one of the good folders you are way past what you can get an AR10T. Also $12-1500 for a preban is a good price if it is an SA. I paid $1600 for mine and it had an E2 stock on it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 8:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robbyd:
Alright, few more questions:

Is 1150 - 1200 good for a pre-ban M1A standard with syn stock. It's been shot about 10 times I believe, and to me it seems like a good deal.

Also, if I do get the preban, I'd either like to get a stock with a pistol grip (what I really want) or a folding stock (from what I heard they can be had but are expensive and out of production). As far as a M1A stock with the pistol grip, does anyone have and recommendations with this? I can and do shoot "rifle rifles" but prefer the pistol grip stocks for ease of use and control.

Thanks,

Robby



The price is pretty good, not spectacularly great, but certainly not a rip off.

As stated in the post above mine, the E2 stock is the way to get the pistol grip. I too have heard of a folding stock, but have never actually seen one. A friend of mine had (and sold because he's a jackass) an M1A that had a wire extendable stock that was very rugged and user-friendly. I don't know if the stock was a custom job or production, but it was pretty cool.

Frankly, you could probably make a folding stock like is used on the AR-180 yourself without a tremendous amount of difficulty. I wouldn't ruin a valuable E2 stock with a saw and hinge plate, but an el cheapo fiberglass or wood stock might work.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:37:43 AM EDT
Well, everyone has opinions. One of the great things about this site is the variety of experiences we have. OK, here is my opinion for what it is worth.

The M1A is not a suitable platform for scoping. What I mean by that is there are inherent difficulties in properly scoping one for precision (sub MOA) shooting. Poor cheekweld with a scope, and the issue of bedding the rifle (every few years or number of rounds) makes it a bad platform for this purpose. If you really want a highly precise 308 auto rifle with a scope don't screw around. Buy the AR10. Period.

But, if ya gotta have an M1A, cool. I have one that I think is lots of fun. I can still use the iron sights since I use the Smith Enterprise mount, AND use my sighting system. No problems. I elected for a simple 2x Aimpoint sight since as stated above I don't believe true precision is a reasonable goal with these rifles. Below are a few pics of how it turned out.

It is capable with this sight and me shooting of about 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards. Best I expect to get with this rifle. And satisfied with it.







Have fun. But if you're smart you'll pony up the extra for the AR10. Much easier system to mount stuff on (get the flattop). And more inherently accurate.

James
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 8:55:46 AM EDT
Rob, your about $1000 short. Expect to pay $3000+ just for the rifle, scope and mounts. The TA01 will not work, trust me, I tried it. AR10 is a great platform for a scoped 308 and will be cheaper. Having said that, there are not many rifles that have the feel and reputation that the M14 has. I have a scoped Supermatch, it is my favorite rifle. It was built as my dream rifle and not as a SHTF rifle.

here's how it shoots


Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 12:37:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By robbyd:
$179 - 1000 rounds .308 Porgueese Ball ammo - http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_308.htm



Portuguese FNM .308 is great ammo. Fulton Armory uses it to function test their rifles.

AIM has a case of this ammo (1K) for $139 delivered up until March 15th.



Ammo is steel core, it will wear the barrel faster than copper core. If you don't believe me, use a magnet and check the tips.

P.S. I use this ammo in cheap chrome lined barrels, but not in a rifle that I want the barrel to hold up past the 6000 mark.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 4:24:10 AM EDT
Steel core won't wear a barrel faster than lead core will, but steel jacketed will wear faster than copper jacketed.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 7:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2002 7:16:44 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By NH2112:
Steel core won't wear a barrel faster than lead core will, but steel jacketed will wear faster than copper jacketed.


OT: Sorry to get off-topic, but I would like to mention something that I discovered recently. I have been reloading Winchester 30cal 147 FMJs from Midway & Wideners, and guess what, it has a steel jacket with copper flashing, and they WILL stick to a magnet. The IMI 30cal 150g from Wideners do not have this problem.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 9:03:49 AM EDT
Ok, my California crutch is starting out with M-K reciever and a Kreiger DMR barrel. Still learning about the build so any comments would be appreciated.
Priority 1A: Field reliability.
Priority 1B: Accuracy.

Can't have an AR10, pistol grip, flash hider.
So, how important is the stock?
How much benefit is there to a stock like the McMillians over a good wood stock?

Wondering about differences between M21 and M25 etc.

Book reccomendations?
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 1:35:30 PM EDT
Axel,

I don't know where you are in the process, but the stock is important, maybe.

If you plan to install a scope and wish true precision shooting, a stock with an adjustable cheekpiece built in is important. The standard M14 stock simply does not raise the eye to the proper level for scoped shooting.

For myself, if I had the ambition, I would contact Spirngfield Armory and see if they will sell you one of these.



If you are building yourself, and don't care about scoping the rifle, go here for a selection of good stocks.

www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/stocks.asp

Have fun.

James
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 2:01:37 PM EDT
Makes me wish I never sold my M1A.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 7:11:17 PM EDT
The parts I mentioned are in the mail. I think I'll scope it. SN-3 is still a safe queen...

Here in California you have to beat deadlines. Armalite wouldn't sell a reciever, so I missed out on the AR10. Got the AR's in time. Now I'll have the important parts of the M1A, and may take my sweet time with the rest of it. Might pop for an FAL-sans grip-later too.

But back to the M1A, or C or D or M21, Or M25 or whatever it turns out to be; I wasn't too interested in the Springfield because this may be a grandfathered heirloom and I believe in spending the quality bucks up front instead of twice, or missing out. I know the cast recievers have done OK but I'd rather not settle when I can get forged.

Fot those stock prices, I might be tempted to try some woodwork.

But half the fun is getting there and I might yet escape California.
Top Top