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Posted: 3/12/2002 9:49:05 AM EDT
I had a piece of 1/4" thick steel that I brought out plinkin with me set it up 10feet a way and shot it twice with wolf 55gr FMJ it went right through nice and clean. Then I decided too shoot a box full of newspaper about 1.5' tall the 223 went all the way thru so I put the 1/4" thick piece of steel over the box and then shot the newspaper this time it stoped about an inch from the bottom of the box.

Heres the question how can people say that the 223 will penetrate less than a handgun round? I don't know how good this round will be for home defense but I keep a 20rd loaded with wolf am I crazy to be loading up with FMJ's? also how is FMJ wolf or just fmj 223 in general good for stopping attackers.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 9:56:08 AM EDT
For home defense I would go with the Ammo Fac suggestion and choose the Winchester 64grn. Power Point or the newer Power Point +. While they are not the most accurate rounds out past 200 yards, they will do the job up-close IMHO.

Mike
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 10:56:16 AM EDT
Although new to the AR-15 world, I've been exposed to CQB people for quite some time.

Most have recommended to me (as I switched from a shotgun to an AR for HD) the 40-grain HP load as being the best for low-penetration environments. A couple of SWAT guys told me that the Blitz HP (loaded by Federal, I believe) was just outstanding in terms of performance and feeding.

As an afterthought, I've stayed away from Wolf ammo because of the whole "steel case damages chamber" issue. Is this a valid argument?
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 11:16:53 AM EDT
1911greg, FMJ's are great for punching holes, but leave a lot to be desired in regards to transferring energy in soft materials. Your best bet is to run HP's. They will transfer energy more efficiently and you have less of a chance of over penetration.

Also, make sure that the HP is not a steel core, such as in the case as some 7.62 x 39 rounds. I believe that all Wolf brand 223 is not steel core. You can use a magnet to check out the bullet if needed.

Plus, before you depend on the HP rounds, make sure that they will function in your rifle. Wolf HP will not run in a few of my rifles, but the FMJ type runs just fine.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 11:43:18 AM EDT
I would not use Wolf ammo for any type of defensive work. It has a thick steel jacket over the bullet that will not allow it to fragment like M193. It is also loaded weaker than M193. Your choice should be based mainly on the environment you live in. I am in a very rural area so I go for as much fragmentation and penetration as I can get, so I use M193 55 gr. In a situation where other homes are located nearby, I would probably use Federal Premium hollow-point boat tails. In a very populated area there are some rounds such as Hornady TAP and other similar rounds which use a polymer tip that should be good. I use M193 mainly because it is accurate, penetrates well at closer ranges, fragments like crazy at velocities above 2700 fps. Hollow points may explode on impact and not offer penetration deep enough to instantly kill or incapacitate. M193 has a tendency to penetrate several inches before it fragments, which actually makes it superior to hollow points in my opinion. But most .223 rounds at close range will be pretty effective if you make a torso hit with one. Just choose the right round based on where you live.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 12:45:55 PM EDT
The AR make a fine choice for a home defense weapon.The key is testing a number of diffrent rounds for use.I do'nt belive my first pick would be a FMJ round as you found out it offers good penetration.To the point it may over penetrate.Remember you'r loved ones may lay down range of you'r target,or even you'r neighbors.You may be better off with a round the delivers all its energy to the target with out over penetration.Once the round has left you'r barrel you can't call it back.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 1:34:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 1:39:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AndyTN:
Although new to the AR-15 world, I've been exposed to CQB people for quite some time.

Most have recommended to me (as I switched from a shotgun to an AR for HD) the 40-grain HP load as being the best for low-penetration environments. A couple of SWAT guys told me that the Blitz HP (loaded by Federal, I believe) was just outstanding in terms of performance and feeding.

As an afterthought, I've stayed away from Wolf ammo because of the whole "steel case damages chamber" issue. Is this a valid argument?



Andy, as far as steel cased ammo causing problems, I tend to agree. Wolf is also the shittiest ammo I've ever seen. It has a lacquer coating to prevent rusting, but that lacquer only gums up the action and smells like piss after it starts melting. Eventually you'll get a round stuck in the chamber.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 1:41:56 PM EDT
i wouldn't recomend wolf ammo to my enemies.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 2:38:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Energy (velocity * mass) is an important component for calculating wounding potential.

-Troy



Kinetic energy is equal to one half the mass times the velocity squared (E=1/2 m * v^2). You are thinking of momentum (p=mv).
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 3:23:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I had a piece of 1/4" thick steel that I brought out plinkin with me set it up 10feet a way and shot it twice with wolf 55gr FMJ



You have got some f---ing balls to be shooting at a steel plate that is ten feet away. Or a mental disorder.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 4:35:31 PM EDT
Roger that.

i had a buddy shoot 1/4" steel with .223 at 25 feet, and a frag hit me in the forehead.

Damn, that stung.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 4:39:06 PM EDT
I had a pretty good Idea the wolf would go thru the steel but why wouldn't you give wolf too your worst enemy it went 540 rds without a misfire or jam this was in a period of about 4 hours with no cleaning, about a month ago I put 300rds thru with no problem, pretty damn reliable if you ask me. This was through my mini-14 maybe the AR's don't like it but this is basically a cheap plinker so why not shoot the cheap shit?? of the 800rds I have bought I probably have saved enough too buy another mini!
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 5:56:24 PM EDT
The formula for energy is mass X velocity squared dived by 450436. I believe this is correct but I can not find my reloading manual.
I use Winchesters Varmiter. It is a 45gr HP moving @ 3600fps. It is more than accurate enough for home defense and delivers a tremedous amount of energy to the target. I mix these with SS109s one for one in the mag. I live in a kinda rural area so I am not overly concerned with overpenetration but I want enough there to make it through two layers of 3/4" sheetrock and do more than pepper an intruder.

Link Posted: 3/12/2002 6:21:29 PM EDT
Try the new Wolf 55gr copper jacket hp.. Better stopping, less penetration.. Who wants to kill the neighbors? The laquer on Wolf ammo does not melt at rifle operating temps even on full auto.. The smell is from the powder and is harmless but nasty.. Just don't sniff your barrel too much..
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