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Posted: 3/11/2002 2:01:43 PM EDT

I'm pretty well up to speed on how the Klinton Crime bill affects pistols and rifles, but what about shotguns made after 94?
What's allowed/not allowed?
Pump vs. semi auto?
folding stocks?
extended mag tubes?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:13:52 PM EDT
Folding stocks and extended mag tubes are not allowed on semi-auto shotguns.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:24:49 PM EDT
Shotguns:

Any semiautomatic shotgun manufactured after 9/13/94 that has at least two of the following features is a banned AW:

Folding or telescoping stock,lescoping stock,
Pistol grip which protrudes conspicuously below the action of the gun,
Fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds,
The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:26:58 PM EDT
M4Madness is wrong.

18 USC 921(a)(30)(D) states:

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:33:03 PM EDT
what about shotguns in CA?
can you have a pump with a pistol grip, folding stock and 8 shots in the tube?
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 5:25:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2002 5:27:06 PM EDT by M4Madness]
Okay, guys, let me clarify my response a little. If you have a folding stock, chances are you will have a pistol grip, which makes your two "evil" features. I may be wrong, but I have never seen a folder without a pistol grip set-up. As for extended mag tubes, they are illegal on a semi-auto as far as I am aware.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 6:52:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak:
M4Madness is wrong.

18 USC 921(a)(30)(D) states:

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.




Madness you can have ONE of these on your auto.

I have a pistol grip stock on my 1187.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 8:01:45 AM EDT
provided your semi-auto shotgun has a fixed 5rnd capicity, it is exempt.
see the link.www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter87.txt
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 8:07:18 AM EDT
So, does this rule out a Benelli M-1 tactical?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 8:11:53 AM EDT
if i am reading the law correctly, it would seem that you could put a mag extension tube on a rem 1187 IF it was bone-stock otherwise.

i'd think it would be the same story for a benelli IF it has a 'traditional' stock.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 8:14:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crumabn:
So, does this rule out a Benelli M-1 tactical?



huh?
the benelli tactical has a pistol grip and a 5rnd capicity. if you wish to have more rounds replace the pistol grip stock with a straight one. if there was a folding or collapsable stock available, it would be legal with the 5rnd mag. that is unless that runs afoul of atf's imported weapons restrictions. if it were a domestic product, you're home free.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 12:27:36 PM EDT

M4Madness, you can have ONE of these on your auto.

I have a pistol grip stock on my 1187.



Yes, but it cannot have a folder also. What I was saying is that I have never seen a folding stock set-up that did not require a pistol grip. That would make it illegal, as there would be two "evil" features. If a folding stock is made without a pistol grip, then it is okay. Or a pistol grip by itself is legal. I said from the beginning that I may be incorrect in my assumption that extended mag tubes were illegal on semi-auto shotguns. I have just always been under the impression that they were. So if it has no other "evil" features, an extended mag tube is legal?
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 6:55:17 AM EDT
The link above states: DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

JUN 19 2000
903050:CHB
3311

Dear Mr. Bardwell:

This refers to your letter of May 30, 2000, in which you asked
about a semiautomatic shotgun.

You describe a Mossberg M9200A1 semiautomatic shotgun which accepts
4 rounds of 2-3/4 or 3-inch ammunition in a fixed tubular magazine,
and having a pistol grip and a folding stock.

As defined in section 921(a)(30)(D), of Title 18, United States
Code, the term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means a semiautomatic
shotgun that has at least 2 of the following features:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and;

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

The described semiautomatic shotgun has two of the qualifying
features; therefore, it is a semiautomatic assault weapon as
defined.

- 2 -

Mr. Bardwell

Section 922(v)(1), of Title 18 U.S.C., provides that it shall be
unlawful for any person to manufacture, transfer or possess a
semiautomatic assault weapon. However, paragraph (v)(3)(D)
provides that the prohibition in paragraph (1) shall not apply to
any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds of
ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

If the described shotgun cannot hold more than 5 rounds of
ammunition in its fixed magazine, it is excluded from the
prohibition in section 922(v)(1).

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If you have further questions concerning this matter, please
contact us.


Sincerely yours,

[signed]

Curtis H.A. Bartlett
Acting Chief, Firearms Technology Branch


So if we keep the mag cap. stock we can have the folding stock and the pistol grip.

But if you put on the mag. Extension you cannot have anyother evil stuff
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 8:43:37 AM EDT
Previous posts has alluded to this but in order to clarify, a semi-auto with a straight grip and no other "bad" features can have an extended magazine tube. I have a ten round tube of a Benelli M1 which is legal.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 9:10:44 AM EDT
Just to muddy the waters a little more...what if is a preban? Does this make any difference with shotguns, I assume the evil ones that existed before the ban have been grandfathered like AR's. So, if I have a preban 1100, could I put all the "evil features" I wanted to on it, or would that be "creating a post ban assault weapon"
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 9:54:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kicker9898:
Just to muddy the waters a little more...what if is a preban? Does this make any difference with shotguns, I assume the evil ones that existed before the ban have been grandfathered like AR's. So, if I have a preban 1100, could I put all the "evil features" I wanted to on it, or would that be "creating a post ban assault weapon"



Oh great! I never thought of that!!
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmymud:

Originally Posted By kicker9898:
Just to muddy the waters a little more...what if is a preban? Does this make any difference with shotguns, I assume the evil ones that existed before the ban have been grandfathered like AR's. So, if I have a preban 1100, could I put all the "evil features" I wanted to on it, or would that be "creating a post ban assault weapon"



Oh great! I never thought of that!!




I believe your OK to retrofit all the evil features you want on your pre- 9/13/94 manufactured 1100.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:31:17 PM EDT
So I can put a extended mag and a pistol grip on my benneli as long as I dont use the folding type stock I am ok?

Link Posted: 3/14/2002 2:14:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:
So I can put a extended mag and a pistol grip on my benneli as long as I dont use the folding type stock I am ok?




If your semi-auto Benneli is post-ban you CANNOT have both a pistol grip AND >5rnds capacity (the mag extension).

Any semiautomatic shotgun manufactured after 9/13/94 that has at least two of the following features is a banned AW:

Folding or telescoping stock,lescoping stock,
Pistol grip which protrudes conspicuously below the action of the gun
Fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds
The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 2:24:45 PM EDT
A pump action shot gun can have all the goodies you want on it. I much prefer a pump anyway. My Remington 870 Police Shotgun has a 14 inch barrel and a folding stock. It's pretty cool to shoot and can become very compact when needed.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 2:49:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sf46:
A pump action shot gun can have all the goodies you want on it. I much prefer a pump anyway. My Remington 870 Police Shotgun has a 14 inch barrel and a folding stock. It's pretty cool to shoot and can become very compact when needed.



Not all of us can install a barrel under 18" :(
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:05:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sf46:
A pump action shot gun can have all the goodies you want on it. I much prefer a pump anyway. My Remington 870 Police Shotgun has a 14 inch barrel and a folding stock. It's pretty cool to shoot and can become very compact when needed.



I don't want an 1100 instead of an 870...I want an 1100 in addition to my 870 !
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