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Posted: 3/10/2002 9:39:15 AM EDT
I have my main battle rifle picked out right now and for where I live it suites me the best.

But what I'm looking for now is a rifle that is reliable does not cost a lot(about $200-$400) and that a small framed woman can use. I have seen a few rifles that I have liked like the Hesse 47 that can use AR-15 mags, AK-47, AK-74. M1 carbine or SKS? Or would I be better of getting a handgun or a pistol cal rifle for her? If you have any suggestions I'd like to hear them. Thanks
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 9:41:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 9:58:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:



you had the right idea. http://www.impactguns.com/store/ramo_M2HB.html

p.s. just need some sand bags now.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 10:02:17 AM EDT
yeah, i saw that the other day.

i tried to get the head of security at my work to buy it for the company... but it was a no go.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 10:14:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
yeah, i saw that the other day.

i tried to get the head of security at my work to buy it for the company... but it was a no go.



Bet not, I was down there the other day and caressed it in person, but decided that I jsut didn't have the cash. They won't accept the $15 a month either.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 10:50:48 AM EDT
SKS. Cheap, hits hard, reliable, no hassle about trying to find mags for it. Also the stock is short for small-framed people.

A friend of mine calls it the Volksrifle, especially from when you could get an SKS for less than a bill. Not the best, but probably the best bang for your buck.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 11:11:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
SKS. Cheap, hits hard, reliable, no hassle about trying to find mags for it. Also the stock is short for small-framed people.

A friend of mine calls it the Volksrifle, especially from when you could get an SKS for less than a bill. Not the best, but probably the best bang for your buck.



Thanks for your info. I was looking at the SKS because of how cheap they are and everything the only draw back is the no mags thing for me. I'm not sure if it's worth the exter $100 to get one that has mags.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 11:22:42 AM EDT
If you get the one with the mags, make sure it is the version that takes AK mags. The ones that take funky modified mags with a bunch of extra junk welded to the top don't work worth a damn. Frankly, I wouldn't if I were you. If you get up to $300 or a little above, you could get a Romanian AK for that price.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 11:24:34 AM EDT
Cheep, reliable, relatively light recoil… This is a good description of AK-47 variants. The Romanian SAR-1’s look good and I have seen them for around $250. They don’t have the range of a battle rifle or the accuracy of an AR-15, but the fact that the AK-47 is the most common gun in the world speaks for the fact that it is an ideal generic rifle, especially if cost is an overriding consideration.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 12:35:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cato556:
Cheep, reliable, relatively light recoil… This is a good description of AK-47 variants. The Romanian SAR-1’s look good and I have seen them for around $250.



The best I saw them for was $299. where did you see them at?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 2:24:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 2:30:35 PM EDT
While being a big fan of the SKS, I'm going to vote for the M1 Carbine. It's very light, has almost no recoil, is chambered for an effective (but not overly powerful) cartridge, and is small. The SKS and AK type rifles all tend to be a little long for a small woman to shoot comfortably, the Carbine has a nice short length of pull better suited for a woman. The mags are cheap and plentiful. The ammo can be found for less than 7.62 Russian.

Also, most Carbines I've shot have much better accuracy than the run-of-the-mill AK type.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 2:32:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cato556:
Cheep, reliable, relatively light recoil… This is a good description of AK-47 variants. The Romanian SAR-1’s look good and I have seen them for around $250. They don’t have the range of a battle rifle or the accuracy of an AR-15, but the fact that the AK-47 is the most common gun in the world speaks for the fact that it is an ideal generic rifle, especially if cost is an overriding consideration.



The AK is a good rifle, but the fact that it is the most common assault rifle has more to do with the Russians giving them away by the millions than it being a superior weapons system.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 2:39:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redmanfms:
While being a big fan of the SKS, I'm going to vote for the M1 Carbine. It's very light, has almost no recoil, is chambered for an effective (but not overly powerful) cartridge, and is small. The SKS and AK type rifles all tend to be a little long for a small woman to shoot comfortably, the Carbine has a nice short length of pull better suited for a woman. The mags are cheap and plentiful. The ammo can be found for less than 7.62 Russian.

Also, most Carbines I've shot have much better accuracy than the run-of-the-mill AK type.



Where have you found the ammo that cheap for?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 2:49:50 PM EDT
The downside of the Carbine is ammo availability.

I would go with the cheap Romanian AK, maybe even the 10 round version, since ammo is very cheap & available.

Link Posted: 3/10/2002 3:25:58 PM EDT
What is your main rifle?
Can you get something with ammo compatibility?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 4:11:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2002 4:14:05 PM EDT by sgtstinger]
I'm gonna sound like most everybody else...

Go with the SKS. You can get a really good one for less than $300(more like $250, if you don't mind Chinese). They don't depend on detachable mags(unless you buy one that takes such mags) and ammo is cheap and has plenty of power. You can feed them with stripper clips or even just thumb-in loose rounds.

While not match-grade accurate, with a little practice, virtually anyone can hit a man-sized target out to 150-200 yards. Recoil is also mild. Also extremely reliable, even without much cleaning & maintainence.

M1 Carbine is a viable choice, but ammo is harder to find and more expensive.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 4:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BusMaster007:
What is your main rifle?
Can you get something with ammo compatibility?




FAL is going to be my main rifle. I could get a bolt action Mauser or Enfield but I think the recoil might be a little much for her.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 8:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Where have you found the ammo that cheap for?



Haven't found it that that cheap in a while. My local gun store used to sell 50-round boxes for $5. Including tax, it was $90 per case of 1000. Now they only have Winchester white box for like $10 or $12 a box. The old stuff was Isreali-made I believe. I bought a ton of it from them an have either shot or sold most of it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 8:53:23 PM EDT
tayous1,
S.W.A.T. magazine did an artcle on the Remington 7400 in .308 as a patrol carbine.
They had some gunsmith 'loosen' the chamber and do a trigger job on it, I think. I'll try and find the article/date of issue for you.
You're wife could probably handle the recoil no problem, being it's a gas operated gun. The mags are 10-rd. Millett or Eagles; 5-rd. is also an option...the stock ones are 4 and have the little lever release for the bolt hold open feature (the aftermarket mags do not have this feature).
It could be used without the 'extra' smithing done. Tested for reliability (mine is fine) it could be a good ammo compatible choice for you.
It turned out a lot like my little carbine in .30-06:
:
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 11:37:34 PM EDT
My friend..get her an M1 Carbine and a Progressive Dillon Reloading Press.

While 30 Carbine is not as powerful nor as plentiful and cheap as 7.62x39mm. The sights on the M1 Carbine are just flat out superior to those on the SKS or the AK.

The better sights combined with the lighter weight make the M1 Carbine FASTER to handle and get on Target than either the SKS or the AK.

As an added benefit the M1 Carbine has less recoil.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 9:42:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BusMaster007:
tayous1,
S.W.A.T. magazine did an artcle on the Remington 7400 in .308 as a patrol carbine.
They had some gunsmith 'loosen' the chamber and do a trigger job on it, I think. I'll try and find the article/date of issue for you.
You're wife could probably handle the recoil no problem, being it's a gas operated gun. The mags are 10-rd. Millett or Eagles; 5-rd. is also an option...the stock ones are 4 and have the little lever release for the bolt hold open feature (the aftermarket mags do not have this feature).
It could be used without the 'extra' smithing done. Tested for reliability (mine is fine) it could be a good ammo compatible choice for you.
It turned out a lot like my little carbine in .30-06:
:




I don't know if she could take the recoil. She shot a friends M1A and FAL and it just about knocked her 5'2 110lbs a$$ down. I would go for a 308 for her it would save me $$ in the ammo department. I have talked to her about getting a FAL for her also and she told he that there is now way she want's a 308.

Anyway thats a nice rifle you got there!! I might think about when I have the money getting one of thou.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:30:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 10:37:43 AM EDT by Matt_S]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
the ak-74/5.45 calibre is a fine choice.





Gotta Agree on this one. If we had to leave in a hurry, I'd take my M1A, and I have my sig. other either take the Romak-II (5.45 romanian AK) or an M-4. Got the romak a while back for less than 300. The other choice would be an SKS. For what it is worth. My fiancee' much prefers the 5.45 to the 7.62X39 cartridge. (She has flat out told me she does not like to shoot the SKS) The Romak is light, VERY low recoil, and she can tag a 36"X36" plate at 300 yards with it 28 times outa 30 times. The hardest time she has with the 5.45 AK is giving it to me so I can shoot before we run out of ammo for it at the range.

Just another opinion....
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:51:01 AM EDT
go for the cetme, same cartridge, very little recoil. hard hitting, difficult to foul up. not very pretty, but functional. the century arms ones out there often require a little work to make em do just right, but once set up they do really throw the lead.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 11:55:44 AM EDT
Check out the Romanian AK-SAR-3 (~$300). It's chambered for 5.56 NATO (light recoil & no problem with ammo availability). Earlier ones were plagued with mandated US-made FCG problems, but quality (and reasonably $) aftermarket FCGs are available www.redstararms.com. The Weiger 30rd .223 mags are by far the best available and can be gotten from Interordnance for ~$15. After installing an improved FCG, mine has functioned flawlessly and is surprisingly accurate for an AK. The small AK frame and lightweight of the SAR-3 should be a great match for the small frame and lesser recoil tolerance of a woman.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 12:02:40 PM EDT
o.k., don't laugh.
ruger mini-14.
seriously. it's cheap, reliable, ammo compatible, and lots of accessories. i had mine chopped and a eagle hk style hooded flashhider/sight combo attached, a butler creek folding stock and scout rail from brownells attached. i am not comparing it to the AR, there is no comparison, but for the purpose stated, it fits the bill. (just get good magazines)
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 8:04:51 PM EDT

*** In regards to the post about a good weapon for the lady, the SKS is not a bad choice at all. They are plenty accurate enough and extremely reliable and tough. I have never seen one of them jam, ever. With the exception of those awkward 30 round junk mags. If you get this gun,leave the factory 10 round mag in place. You can reload fast with strippers if need be. Just train her to do this before hand and practice a great deal to where she can load it under stress, darkness, etc. The GI .30 Carbine is a decent performer if it is in good shape. Stay with 15 rd. GI mags with these and avoid 30's like the plague. They jam pretty bad.The 30 has had a poor reputation as a stopper, but there is also SP loads for them if they don't jam your weapon. Still, a hit from a .30 would more than be enough for me! The AK is pretty mild to shoot for guys, but it has a bit more recoil than the SKS. Ruger makes some nice little carbines that use the same mags as their P-series pistols and from what I can gather, they are sweet. They are the PC-4 and PC-9 models (.40 cal and 9mm). These offer limited range but could be a good choice. I hate to mention this on this board, but the Mini-14 is also a great gun for women. They are pretty cheap and as reliable as can be with the right mags (factory, John Masen hi-caps and Precision Mag Industries hi-caps). They aren't as accurate as some rifles but will be effective on man sized targets at 100 yds no problem. The mags are rather expensive and hard to find these days. The good thing about .223 is ammo availability and mild recoil. The Mini-14 also has a military chamber, which will allow her to use M193 GI 55 gr. ammo that fragments when it strikes flesh and tumbles. It will also chamber the newer 62 gr. SS109 rounds that will offer greater range and penetration out at 300 yds and farther. I would also highly recommend getting her a riot or youth model 20 gauge shotgun and load it up with #3 buckshot. At close range it will be just as deadly as a 12 and have much less recoil. I would get her this if you are serious about home defense. Remington 870 and Winchester 1300 makes these types. Mossberg may produce them also. A good 9mm handgun would be great to arm her with also. The best IMO would be the Sig P228 for a woman. They are pretty compact and the grips just seem to fit all hand sizes great. They are as accurate as anything going and extremely reliable. However they are very expensive. A Glock 19 might also be a good choice. And a cheap, but very reliable auto would be the Ruger P-89 (but I would prefer the P-95 due to better handling characteristics). Hmmm, perhaps a Ruger PC9 carbine for about $350 new and a P-95 Ruger for $300-$350 (depending on blue or stainless) would be a great combo. Both use the same ammo and same mags. That could come in very handy. I hope this very long post has helped somewhat. I love talking about guns so much I sometimes get carried away but I will always try to tell you to the very best of my ability what is good and what isn't. If I have no experience with a particular firearm though, I will keep my mouth shut!
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 12:58:37 PM EDT
Something else I have thought of since my last post. Now I normally do not recommend a .22 LR for a self-defense gun, but in certain cases it might be a better platform than nothing. My gun in this role is the Ruger 10/22 carbine. This little gun is short, light, accurate and has no recoil. Accessories are everywhere for these guns and they are utterly reliable. You can buy the little factory rotary 10 rd. mags for about $12 each and if you wanna spend more, there are 25 and 30 rd. Ram-Line and Butler Creek mags available. I have heard some people say these don't work well, but I've never experienced any problems with mine. The 10/22 rifle can be bought brand new in some places for $125-$150. That's what they go for around here. And you can get stainless and sythetic, wood furniture, blued finish, just about any combo you want. For this caliber I would go with the CCI Stinger as the optimum ammo choice. While a .22 is far from the optimum caliber weapon for defense, it is better to have than no gun at all. If your wife is 5-2, 110, this could be the gun she would feel most comfortable with. If she has a bigger gun that kicks hard, she may lose interest in it and wouldn't get the most accuaracy outta it either because of flinching. With practice she could put a lot of lead downrange fast with this which would be a plus with the small caliber. And .22 ammo is so cheap you can have a bunch of it on hand and this would be good for frequent cheap practice.
Another possible weapon for a more petite shooter would be the Marlin lever action carbines. They are short, fit the shoulder well, fire several different effective cartridges and have low recoil. They can be had in .38/357 and .44/44 Magnum. I would recommend the .38/357 for her. They hold about 10 rounds and you can keep sticking fresh rounds in the side of it so you will never have to buy a bunch of mags. These guns are also in your price range. A lever-action isn't the worst thing in the world and would be my second choice behind autoloaders because they are fairly fast to cycle and rounds are quickly and easily loaded. I think some of the better training institutes have started teaching combat courses for the lever guns. Not sure if it is Thunder Ranch or Gunsite, etc....maybe all of them. Regardless, that tells me something. And the things are simple to use. Might be another option. Again, there are many things available to her.....SAR-2, SAR-3, Mini-14, SKS carbine, Ruger PC9 and PC4 carbines, Marlin Camp Carbine, Marlin lever carbines, Ruger 10/22, and all sorts of things that could serve her needs well. I think Savage also makes some kind of a shortened scout type rifle that might be good if you can get it in .243 Winchester. Of course these are bolt guns but handy. The best gun out there would probably be one of the AR 16" carbines or an M4. But these are well outside your price range. However, it meets all the other criteria perfectly.
Link Posted: 3/12/2002 2:15:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jeffm:
You wouldn't go wrong with the M1 carbine. My backup gun is a SKS para-trooper. Its shorter than the standard SKS, would be very good for small framed person.

Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:04:37 AM EDT

I don't know if she could take the recoil. She shot a friends M1A and FAL and it just about knocked her 5'2 110lbs a$$ down. I would go for a 308 for her it would save me $$ in the ammo department. I have talked to her about getting a FAL for her also and she told he that there is now way she want's a 308.




In this case, get her an AR or an AK for less money, since you already have the FAL as the main battle rifle.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:52:39 AM EDT
My backup rifle for AR is 18" hi-cap 870 shotgun.

Makes perfect sense! Especially if you live in urban area.
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