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Posted: 3/8/2002 7:14:13 AM EDT
Ok, let's here it on bayo lugs..... good or un-necissary
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 7:21:28 AM EDT
Bayonets are ann archaic holdover from a bigon era when war was more brutal and most combat was hand to hand.

Bayonet lugs in and of themselves can be useful for mounting lasers and lights,ect, but with the growing popularity of quadrail handguards even that function is fast becoming out dated.

That being said, every rifle you own that can have one should have one simply because acording to washington it's an 'evil' feature.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 7:40:36 AM EDT
Bayonets don't jam, so I vote for good. You might feel stupid having one on the end of your rifle, but that's better than feeling dead for not.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 7:44:24 AM EDT
the way i look at it, the founding fathers of this nation intended for the people to have the same firepower and armament as the armed forces. so if the military uses bayo lugs, responsibvle citizens should be allowed to as well. personally, i have no use for one, but some liberal bitch in hollywood or new york who doesn't even know what a bayonet is for should not have the right to prevent me from owning one.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:15:32 AM EDT
I think they're very useful, and there's one recent event that I think would have gone better had a National Guardsman had a bayonet affixed to his rifle. I'm talking about when the NG soldier stepped towards Kevin Meaney at SFI. Without having a bayonet, his two choises of using force were either firing (which wasn't justified) or awkwardly trying to use one hand to subdue the funny man while holding his rifle with the other. When the National Guardsman closed the distance, he put himself in awkward position. If he had had to use his rifle, he would have needed to put space between himself and the target to bring his rifle to bear. I think if the NG soldier had a bayonet affixed, he would have pointed the rifle at the funny man and kept his distance. That would have kept him in a better position, and the blade on the end is a clear indication of the potential for harm. The fear of blades is an instinct that happens quickly, but fear of a more complicated tool takes longer. I've seen people upset or mad that ignore a drawn handgun from a cop, but the sight of a blade brings a quicker reaction. The guardsman would have been much more threatening if he had kept his distance and pointed a bayonet than he was by simply stepping towards the guy with a rifle held in front of his chest.

I also had a friend that used an '03 with a bayonet to herd three burglers. He wouldn't have been justified to shoot them, and couldn't have shot all three had they charged him. But, the three were terrified of the bayonet after he gave one of them a warning cut when the guy reached for his rifle. Had he not had the bayonet he might have been disarmed when the guy reached for the rifle or he would have had to fire. If he had fired, he probably wouldn't have gotten the second shot off before the other two pounded him.

Finally, bayonets don't run out of ammo.z
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:22:41 AM EDT
A necessity for those "drive-by" bayonetings.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:33:59 AM EDT
I keep a bayonet on my preban.

Why?

Just in case some totally sweet ninja flips out on me. I may not have a chance to get a shot off before he chops my head off 7 times but at least I will have my trusty bayonet to fall back on (if I'm not too busy crapping my pants).

Seriously though. I think a bayonet would make someone think twice about trying to disarm you.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:03:30 AM EDT
Sure, it is useful.....With that on my rifle, I can sell my rifle for a lots more money than the one that doesn't have it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:17:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kmh:
Ok, let's here it on bayo lugs..... good or un-necissary



Pretty much the only thing that works for mounting a bayonet to your rifle.

Yes, useful.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:24:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Halfcocked:

Originally Posted By kmh:
Ok, let's here it on bayo lugs..... good or un-necissary



Pretty much the only thing that works for mounting a bayonet to your rifle.



now, THAT'S funny.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 10:16:09 AM EDT
Bayo lugs are most useful for making certain politicians pee there panties.

I think zoom has it right. Mounted bayonets are most useful as a tool of intimidation. The bad guys arent' too afraid of being shot. "You aint got the guts to pull the trigger." Point a bayonette at them and they rethink. Why? Because EVERYONE knows from experience that a knife cut hurts like hell. That BIG knife on the end of that rifle would only hurt more!!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 10:20:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler:
Bayo lugs are most useful for making certain politicians pee there panties.

I think zoom has it right. Mounted bayonets are most useful as a tool of intimidation. The bad guys arent' too afraid of being shot. "You aint got the guts to pull the trigger." Point a bayonette at them and they rethink. Why? Because EVERYONE knows from experience that a knife cut hurts like hell. That BIG knife on the end of that rifle would only hurt more!!!



In this day and age, if you're not NG/Army/LEO, what's the point? If you have an ar15 in your hands, you're going to use it. If I'm defending my home, I'd rather leave no future plaintiff alive, nor get close enough to stick him with a knife. Rather grab that extra mag in the night or afix the bayonet?

Useless for normal citizens.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 11:33:51 AM EDT


Rather grab that extra mag in the night or afix the bayonet?

Useless for normal citizens.

those were pretty much my thoughts... I don't wanna be that close in a knife fight... grab another mag and rock on!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 11:49:05 AM EDT
The days of the Bayonet are long gone..

However, it should not be overlooked as an option for military..

Home use? probably not needed.

evil feature? NO, retract that stupid@ss law.

there are some accessories that make use of an AR bayo lug.

Link Posted: 3/8/2002 12:05:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
A necessity for those "drive-by" bayonetings.



That's the line I always use on newbie's that are looking to get into AR's.

I also tell them that they will look funny calling a cease fire and then running down to the end of the range stabbing their targets.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 12:17:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2002 12:21:13 PM EDT by Maddog50]

Originally Posted By 7IDL:
The days of the Bayonet are long gone..



I disagree. Fixed bayonets were used to kill enemy soldiers (albeit not that many) in Vietnam and as recently as our deployment in Somalia.


Originally Posted By 7IDL:
Home use? probably not needed.



Now that I can agree on.

But you have to admit bayonets are cool.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 12:29:13 PM EDT
Can someone post a picture of a M7 mounted on a carbine? Either I've grown old and forgetful or somethng doesn't look right.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 12:29:34 PM EDT
Bayonet lugs are a must! Even if you never mount anything on it, it will piss off the liberals.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 12:40:11 PM EDT
Amagine the senario You wake up in the middle of the night by the sound of someone braking into your house you come out with a rifle and a huge bayonet, the suspect will be so confused, scared and convince you are a pschopath that he will flee.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 2:43:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maddog50:

Originally Posted By 7IDL:
The days of the Bayonet are long gone..



I disagree. Fixed bayonets were used to kill enemy soldiers (albeit not that many) in Vietnam and as recently as our deployment in Somalia.


Originally Posted By 7IDL:
Home use? probably not needed.



Now that I can agree on.

But you have to admit bayonets are cool.



I was refering to the days of "fix bayonets", such as WW1.

If you'll note the other line in my post above, you find:

However, it should not be overlooked as an option for military..
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 2:50:38 PM EDT
Bayonets are cool, buy why would you want to stick one way out there on the end of your rifle? Maybe they were useful on a 1860 Springfield where you had one shot and then charged but I doubt they have much use on a semi-auto rifle.

Of course I like to walk around the house with my bayonet sticking out.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 3:24:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2002 3:27:22 PM EDT by Maddog50]

Originally Posted By 7IDL:
I was refering to the days of "fix bayonets", such as WW1.



Yes, the Golden Era of the bayonet charge has passed us by.

But, as you hinted, they still kill people. And that's enough.

Link Posted: 3/8/2002 5:15:55 PM EDT
The reason they are on the PC list is the blue berets will be wearing bulletproof, not stab resistant, vests when they kick in your door to take your guns Muwahahahahahah!!!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:42:27 PM EDT
wouldn't want to put a thumb-hole stock on my ar .but still would like to have one, think we had to learn the bayonet thrust in basic, maybe not now, basic was in 1963 lot of things have changed since then! If i had to reach down to affix my bay-0 would just as easily grab my 1911..
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:52:51 PM EDT
Why not get one? I mean there is little to no downside and they look damn cool if nothing else!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:00:45 PM EDT
The anti-gun crowd doesn't want you to have a bayonet lug. That makes it an essential feature as far as I'm concerned.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:06:53 PM EDT
Bayo's are for crazed lunatics.

that's why i have one.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:07:42 PM EDT

Useless for normal citizens
This is exactly, EXACTLY the reasoning behind the lib's banning (or the want thereof)) of Flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, pistol grips, folding stocks, mags of more than 10rd capacity, and not the least of which, our RIGHT to own firearms period. I am truly surprised to see this from a member of this board!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:38:53 PM EDT
Personally, I could care less about the presence of a bayonet lug on any rifle. The only evil feature I really miss on post ban rifles is not being allowed to have a collapsable stock. I just like the convenience of a shorter rifle for transportation.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 10:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 1:43:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TylerDurden:


Couldn't have said it better myself!

The bayonets of today are too short, IMO. The idea if mounting the lug on the front sight post on an AR15/M16 is a bad idea... but that is how it goes.

I really like having the bayonet on my Mossberg 590A1 - EEEEVVVVIILLLLLL


Tyler



My Model 12 Winchester trench gun has an old 15" (I think it's a pattern 17, not sure on the nomenclature) bayonet on it all the time. It never hurts to have something really ugly that can potentially hurt a bad guy really badly. My Mossberg has an M7 next to it in the safe, just in case.

Bayonets are pretty useful at herding people, just give 'em a little jab and they get reeeaaaal compliant. That could come in handy if a group of ninja burglars attack your home at night.

Besides, the sight of that mini-sword on a nasty shotgun scares the Hell out of my anti-gun British neighbor.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 3:21:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maddog50:

I disagree. Fixed bayonets were used to kill enemy soldiers (albeit not that many) in Vietnam and as recently as our deployment in Somalia.




Who bayoneted anyone in Somalia? I know they were used for crowd control, but didn't think anyone was bayoneted.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 4:12:03 AM EDT
I think the bayo lug is useful.

The SHTF and you...run out of ammo or your rifle will not function. The bayo being attached at least gives you a better chance without one.

Someone mentioned about the military still training with the bayo. Well, I was in basic (Army) in 1992 and we were trained with the bayo. Actually the bayo course was a BLAST!

medcop
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 4:39:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2002 4:40:59 AM EDT by SKSBoy]
Imagine your out of ammo, and huddled in the farthest corner of your house, what are you gonna do when the intruder comes thru the last door? Are the lives of your wife, children, and you worth not having a bayo? At least with one you have a last ditch effort. It sure beats the hell out of trying to club him with the buttstock (but still a choice). Which would you rather have?

My friend went thru Army basic in '97. He told me in the bayo. course he went buck wild on the dummy, and broke his bayo right off!! His TI came running over(because the broken blade almost hit him) and yellad at all the other troops "This is an example of killer instinct, I want all of you to brake your blades too." My friend didn't know if he should shit his pants, or laugh.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 4:46:57 AM EDT
Military bayonet lugs are essential now and always will be. The most basic objectives of combat never change. Personally I prefer to call for fast movers or arty before I will even fire a single round. But how often do you think UNARMED teams of jarheads go out to call for fire on enemy positions? If you answered none, then you are correct. Same with the bayonet, you would feel really stupid if you ran out of ammo and took one in the gut because someone who will probably never even see combat decided they were a "useless archaic weapon".
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 7:20:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSBoy:
Imagine your out of ammo, and huddled in the farthest corner of your house, what are you gonna do when the intruder comes thru the last door? Are the lives of your wife, children, and you worth not having a bayo? At least with one you have a last ditch effort. It sure beats the hell out of trying to club him with the buttstock (but still a choice). Which would you rather have?



I understand the principal of what your are getting at at, and I agree one should always have a good combat edge at hand, but If I had an intruder in my house and for some reason had exhausted all the ammo in my bayonet equipped weapon, the last place I would be is huddled in the corner of my house. Take the fight to your enemy on your own terms, don't let him bring it to you. Never back yourself into a conrer. In your scenario, I would have immediately removed the bayonet from the end of the rifle for use in hand to hand combat. CQB inside of a house is no place for fighting with an awkward rifle with a blade attached to the end. So to answer your question, I'd rather have the edged weapon over clubbing them with my rifle butt, although I wouldn't have that edged weapon attached to my rifle, it would be in my hand.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 10:55:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By Maddog50:

I disagree. Fixed bayonets were used to kill enemy soldiers (albeit not that many) in Vietnam and as recently as our deployment in Somalia.




Who bayoneted anyone in Somalia? I know they were used for crowd control, but didn't think anyone was bayoneted.



I can't cite the soldier's name or unit, but in my bayonet/combatives training for the Army Reserve back in 1995, the instructor (enlisted infantry) cited an account of a sergeant (who he named) who used a rifle with a fixed bayonet to deflect the weapon of an attacker and then he stuck him through the chest with such force that the bayonet got stuck in his spinal column. That soldier no more specialized training with a bayonet that what he received in basic. Sounded pretty credible to me.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 11:12:16 AM EDT
I don't think anyone in either the army or the Marines got involved in anything that resembled close combat, quite a few fire fights but no cases were they closed to the point that bayonets were used. If you think about it neither the M7 or M9 is long enough to penetrate all the way to the back bone.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 11:35:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
I don't think anyone in either the army or the Marines got involved in anything that resembled close combat, quite a few fire fights but no cases were they closed to the point that bayonets were used. If you think about it neither the M7 or M9 is long enough to penetrate all the way to the back bone.



I'm not saying that I know for a fact that it DID happen, but remember that we are talking about "skinnies" here.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 11:55:40 AM EDT
The blade for both are is less than 6 inches long when mounted. Skinny yes, that skinny no. I think I would caulk that up to many of the tales told by Drill Instructors/Sgts that has a bases in truth, but not exactly accurate.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 2:24:34 PM EDT
it works better than duct tape,
and it is better if you don't need one and have it....
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 4:34:13 PM EDT
I highly doubt the story about soldiers sticking people in Somalia. I spent 6 months there as a Marine and never saw a bayonet mounted. We had occasion daily to buttstroke people and I found it very effective. Many times on patrol or operating checkpoints, small numbers of Marines would be in the midst of Somali mobs. A quick buttstroke to the most agitated agitator would quickly calm a mob down, avoiding shooting incidents. I found the M16A2 to be a much better club than our 1950's era Remington 870's with walnut stocks. As for bayonet lugs, ditch em. The combat load is 210 rounds and most of the infantry carries a knife anyways. We were issued K-Bars and bayonets. No grunt carries either, they sell Gerbers at the PX.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 4:40:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
The reason they are on the PC list is the blue berets will be wearing bulletproof, not stab resistant, vests when they kick in your door to take your guns Muwahahahahahah!!!!



Ha! Sounds like a direct hit to me, that remark :) VERY good point :)
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 5:10:11 PM EDT
It's just supposed to be there!
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 5:30:59 PM EDT
on an ar15 i don't want to have to fight with one. I'd much prefer my garand or mauser for butt strokin!
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