The housing is probably why it costs more. It think that the color factor also comes into play.

Its still as cheap as a basic PVS14, but the color and the fact that tube hours aren't an issue has something to do with it.

Direct competition to a tubed PVS14.

I get that, but the sensor and optic package can be mounted in situ opposite the view finder, in typical fashion - and the battery and electronics (the bulk of the mass and weight), centrally/distributed on the helmet.  

Just seems like its an undeveloped potential advantage of a digital solution, instead of trying to compete in the exact same form factor... but i digress.

Like everything else, the many shill Dealer front operations are free to sell for less than MSRP


For beginners like myself the only place this thing shines over my L3 gen gen 3 tubes is intense variable light scenarios. You can do things with this not likely possible with civilian market L3 tubes so a "comparison" with gen 3 can't nor win over this toy camera here IMO


The trick or treat bells and whistles are nice too, if they work. If past performance is an indicator, don't hold your breath.

If these guys really cared about the product, LE. security, mil, us, etc. they would have all taken a pay cut or live with no pay like many of us and make it right: Wlicox mounts, real mil spec batteries, no fooling around. They are idiots or don't care, but they are indeed smart. I bet they are enjoying their perks, new cars, etc.

They will keep playing us. How many products have they released and still no mil standard? We have to wait more?

The product should have been completely tested before release, if it doesn't work and they released it, what does it say about their ethos, ethics, character. MIT folks are smart, so you have your answer.

You can't be MIT graduates, etc and play the customer for idiots over and over to by stuff you knew didn't work as advertised flawlessly. How many times should they get away with this?

Here's the thing though - even using the MSRP of $2500 (I predict $2250 or less, on ExpertVoice), where are all these new with warranty $2500 PVS14's? I know the NV gurus can build for cheap, and you can snag great deals used (no warranty), and I didn't spend hours going to every vendor.... but my preferred vendor's cheapest, is:



What's a new with warranty, Elbit thin film XLS GP going for, right now, on a major vendor's site?


ar15city: May I suggest Yoga? My experiences with Pro Binos (and now HMT w/MH25), are 180 degrees from yours - to each their own I guess.

NL4 Conditions

Let me remind you this is a technical forum.

Your experience with L3 1531 BNVD gen 3 tubes in intense variable light scenarios are 180 degrees from mine as a beginner?

How many capital intensive high technology businesses have you started from scratch and run for sixteen years?

FWIW, the Sionyx founder didn't go to MIT according to LinkedIn. He has physics degrees from U Mich and Harvard.

Irrelevant post. What's wrong with you, are you serious. Your "comment" sounds like one of those snobs we despise, disembowel, etc. MIT or other snob elitist school, what's the difference? Address the issue, do not use tricky-dick language to distract away from the issues to attack me. Do you think people are too stupid to check? MIT?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hawley

Michael Hawley - Wikipedia
Michael Jerome Hawley (November 18, 1961 – June 24, 2020) was an American academic and artist working in the field of digital media. Previously at MIT's ...


Anthony Longo - Co-Founder & CEO - five | LinkedIn
Prior to SIONYX, Anthony founded Ground Signal, a location-based social analytics ... and Semyon Dukach (TechStars Boston and the famed MIT Blackjack team).

https://sandbox.mit.edu/mentors

MIT Sandbox Mentors
Now at SVB, Jesse spends his time helping great founders grow incredible businesses in the ... she helped start companies such as SiOnyx, Zoragen, Ember,


As usual, criticize and expose them and the Sionyx shills, their energizer bunny shills who keep posting videos to promote the company and their Wanna-Be shill vultures who also thrive in supplying 3D parts, because Sionyx still doesn't care about military Night Vision Industry standards, specifications and compatibility, all have their soiled panties in a twist.

You are using the wrong despicable corrupted mindset. Are you motivated with making money and enriching yourself or are you committed to serving the country, i.e., USA Not PRC! community and adhering to Night Vision Industry standards that will be appealing and of benefit to it's users: mil, le, security, civilian tactical community?

As stated previously, is it too "capital intensive" for you? Sell your boat, home, car, watch, end all your perks, take a pay cut, work for no pay, send your kids to public schools, end your cable TV, change your lifestyle, etc., devote all these wasted resources to the company to adhere to basic Night Vision Industry standards, i.e., clip in Wilcox G24, etc. If you are a patriotic American who cares about your country, motivated by the right reasons, worthy of support, etc., and not in it for enriching yourself or a shill company profiting the PRC, etc..

Smarty, now post some details about Sionyx team, income, properties they own, schools their kids go to, their cars, boats, toys and lifestyle, then we can decide if they care about serving "their" country, community of mil, le, security, etc., with the product or if they are motivated by profit and riches. This is a technical indicator Ethos, ethics, character, etc.

Their Opsin promo video says it all, is an actual unit even shown under all the smoke and mirrors. Who are they catering to?

https://youtu.be/QUJxu4BPhwo


Thanks to your kind and the shills. I will make it a point to never promote in a positive sense this company to all the people I meet, and they will do the same.



ETA
Before anyone writes it's made in Indonesia as yet another distraction to cover-up for this company.  


Are you saying no component of any of their goods are sourced from PRC China, no matter how many shill front companies they go through, unfinished or complete? No raw materials, etc., sourced from PRC China, and everything, is from resource rich Indonesia?

Indonesia is not a bastion for human rights and represents a country I do not wish to support. PRC China companies and fronts are well known to do business with and base out of Indonesia, etc. You are easily fooled by a few degrees of separation. In my book, PRC China and Indonesia are conjoined evil twins. If you choose to ignore the history of human rights abuses, etc., that's on you. They should stop playing this catch me if you can shell game, because they have been caught again and again.

Then we go back to the "start-up" claim of the company origin. Do you believe it. Maybe some don't believe the smoke and mirrors show. How do we know, who really funded them, and they are not a shill front company of PRC, etc.? What does that matter even if they are clean funded, meaning no foreign nationals, no dual citizens, naturalized, how many generations, no suspected characters, no ties to foreign interests, etc. What are the nationalities, religions, family lines, etc., of all these people and their backers, etc. If you want to have that technical discussion. Don't tell me American because this facade means nothing. It is like calling George Soros Greek.

Unless they are really a front company for PRC (with its links to Indonesia), Israel etc.,    Nobody is putting a 1911 to their heads and forcing them to start this "company" to enrich themselves and live that lifestyle. They are free to go work in Fastfood, flip burgers and deliver pizza.

If they are a patriotic "American" company, like other legitimate "American" Night Vision Industry companies who as a technical matter, adhere to industry standards (G24 compatible, etc.) , they should completely make their products here with US materials, components, US Citizen Union labor and not bussed in workers, etc. Can't make it, sell your yacht you bought as a business expense, etc., and go back to your fast-food job and welfare (stipends, scholarships, and other shill pay-offs).

It's game over for this SiOnyx Kanamits

This discussion went to a weird place... anyway, Nightwave should be shipped to buyers early August and pretty much all the websites listed the Opsin as available on August/next month.

In the meantime, there is actually a small sneak peak to real world footage of Nightwave: HERE

It's actually kinda odd, I recall that the Nightwave should've come out after the Opsin and not before it. I believe it was suppose to be released in the fall while the Opsin was suppose to be released at the start of summer before it was pushed to what is now presumably August... although this is *mostly* information that I took from websites listing it as SiOnyx are really quite with information about it.

Thanks, that footage looks promising. Obviously we need a lot more.

Trying to figure out if I should just pre-order it and return it to Optics Planet if I'm not happy. $2,320 + tax with their current 7% off deal.

I would hold onto pre-ordering anything until we at least get some IRL footage from Nightwave, but if you have a good deal on it now then go for it.

One thing I completely forgot to mention is that on the SiOnyx Japan IG page, they uploaded a while ago that there will be an expo I believe in the 6th and 7th of this month. So we might get to see more stuff there OR SiOnyx at that point will officially showcase Opsin.

Honestly, the dates seem too close to each other and it got me thinking what SiOnyx is trying to do? I mean, Nightwave just got announced and then 2-3 weeks later we'll get Opsin? It's almost a certain way that one will cannibalize the other if it wasn't for the fact that they are completely different systems for completely different uses. But, as we know they share the same sensor according to the PDF manuals that I found. So their performance isn't far off from each other. And because of that they might not mind releasing them close together because Nightwave is like 85% of the performence of Opsin.

A small update:

It seems that I have foreshadowed something with my previous comment... In one of their recent FB posts, SiOnyx told a commenter that the Opsin is coming in late summer/early fall.

So it looks like I was right when saying that it sounds weird to release two products so close to each other, and it gives my Reddit post (in which I stated that there is going to be a delay to the Opsin) more weight because ITS ACTUALLY DELAYED!

To remind you that the Opsin was actually suppose to be released by the end of June, and then was pushed to end of July/start of August, to now, perheps to be 'released' in like two weeks from now to actually be available to purchase around next month (presumably for regular purchase and not pre-orders, Nightwave pre-orders should be completed in the following two weeks according to SiOnyx btw)? I wonder why this happened.

Personally, this is really annoying. This means that we are about a month away from seeing actual real world footage of the Opsin in the works, Nightwave footage will come sooner, but of course it's not the same.

I'm not surprised they are delayed, the supply chain for semiconductors and electronics is still chaotic at the moment, it's extremely difficult to predict product availability.

I noticed a couple of Opsin helmet mounts are now listed at Optics Planet.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/sionyx-lions-gear-macho-bridge-mount-for-opsin-monocular.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/sionyx-cadex-e-optic-helmet-mount-for-opsin-monocular.html

The interface looks more like its for aurora.

Availability on Optics Planet just went from next week to "6-8 weeks" so looks like it's further delayed.

Some end user video of the Nightwave marine camera on this forum, looks pretty impressive.

Cool, thanks. Creatine that used to cost $18 a Kilo, is now $42 - this world is f'd. Not surprised at all, at the delay. FJB

Anything "affordable" digital its just not there for serious on-foot operation, aside from the fact that its not sensitive enough compared to anything IIT with an MCP on it.

For me, the refresh rate is the real killer. A 60hz thermal already has a bit of lag when headmounting it, but thermal being used for detection primarily IMO its an acceptable tradeoff, but for a primary navigation scope?, trying to replace the zero-refresh rate of an image intensifier with some digital gimmick its just preposterous.

I know, I know the guys who own this thing will jump in and say how wrong I am, etc etc, if I have tested one, etc. Well, I am sorry, I've tested one and they are just not there, so back it went. My ancient Litton M911 Gen2 from the 1980s is a far superior scope, no delay, image fuses fine and battery runtime measured in days, as opposed to minutes....

G.

Well, I mean, people are different, so if that's what you found for yourself/opinion/situation - no one can argue.

But the fact remains, based on actual long term use, with video proof - including shooting next to ~20 other ARFCOM'ers high dollar Analog stuff on the same line: The Pro (Opsin should be better?) works perfectly down to NL4 conditions, has a "delay" 10 times faster than an eye blink (30ms vs ~300ms. Opsin is 2ms IIRC), and lasts about 2.xx hours on internal (but accepts an 1100mAh Fuji for a bit longer run time), but can go (Mono) about four, 8 hour nights, on an Anker 15K in a Mohawk (I had Duals with one recording full time and had ~50% left after ~7hrs at a Night Shoot in Garrettsville, OH).

Different strokes. It's digital - just like all Thermals, so essentially the same "downsides" - lotta people rocking Thermals ("Auto-NUC will get you kilt in da streetz! ). Light collection (at least on the Pro, Opsin is unknown) is where it fails in NL5 vs Analog - but it's only $750 discounted. "Just as good"? Nope. "Pretty Damn Good"? Hell yea.

The old Ruski Gen0 stuff is also usable too, and works perfect as well, and you can find that for ~40 bucks on fleabay,. Having some some circuit skills you can crank the PC voltage on those old Gen0 tubes to get a hair more gain, enough to edge the dark adapted human eye...Now, truth is I wouldn't want to be caught in a life threatening situation with neither of those devices (gen0 stuff, syonix stuff) if I have other devices at hand, that is all.

Well, it might be NL4, but at what refresh rate? Again, my telescope astrocam can see the faintest nebulae too... the caveat? only after a 10 minute exposure...so not very practical for real-time usage. The money spent on those can be saved towards a used Gen3 IMO.

Its "Pretty damn good" compared to what? the Gen0 Ruski stuff from the USSR days? maybe?... but still those old Gen0 devices have runtimes measured in weeks.. no delay. As for anything else worth its salt IIT, I can tell you right now that even my old Litton M911 from the 80s beat the Syonix in every test we performed. Including cost too: I paid half the Syonix price for my Gen2 M911... with a PVS-5C lens (~f1.0) and gives my lowest performing Gen3 PVS7 a run for its money.

G.

LOL. 2 years too late on the bashing - the Pro is a known quantity by now (July 2020 Release). But like I said, people are different. I own "everything" too - still kept both Pro's.

0% Moon, 100% Clouds, Nearest City Lights ~100 miles away (NL4)

Garrettsville, OH - 11/4/2020

Dealer price on these is listed at $1996.  I'm feeling very tempted to buy one.

Its never too late.

Well, that's just it, right... you and I both own "everything" so we can afford having some "less than useful" stuff in the collection (I own Gen0 as well) but for the guy who reads this thread and is looking to buy their first scope, digital is NOT a good first scope to own; and disappointment will follow if they buy it. Also, given the exorbitant cost for just a cheap CMOS sensor with a stamp sized LCOS LCD packaged in a fugly, heavy and clunky housing, with piss poor battery endurance, well, I would save the cash and buy anything IIT (Image Intensifier Tube) based with an MCP (microchannel plate) on it. (Gen2 or above) as a first scope instead.

My good old GenWac/Watec 902H CCD camera, which I purchased back in 2001 is still better than anything cheap "digital" made today.

G.

Bud, we're literally re-hashing the last 3 years, on the Sionyx Black Silicon (proprietary tech avail no where else), and 2 years on the Gen 2 Pro - in an OPSIN Thread. Head to the dedicated thread if you want - literally EVERYTHING is in there. The bottom line is that if the conditions are NL4 or better, I can do everything with the Pro Sensor, with a fantastic, no perceivable "lag" image, that you can do with your best Analog Gen 3 Sensor - because I've actually done it right next to those devices (walking, running, driving, throwing beach balls, shooting static and moving, etc...). But whatev's - you didn't like it - glad you're happy with what you have.

Back to OPSIN, sorry peeps!

Well, "budding" me out won't change the fact that what you've just said is your opinion as well... and just because the "alleged majority" may think one way, doesn't mean I am wrong. It seems the same tech that powers the other two low resolution digital camcorders is the same tech present in this rebadged low resolution digital camcorder called OPSIN as well. So, my recommendation to whoever reads this, and its on the fence, is that I wouldn't use this for anything else except maybe casual astronomy, contrary to what some guy in an internet forum might suggest or have you believe... Even for astronomy, the low resolution makes it too grainy compared to a high resolution I2, and for astrophotography purposes its just too low res compared to a active-cooled dedicated astrocam. So, before you spend this kind of money on a newly rebadged low-res digital camcorder, aka OPSIN, I'd consider getting a thermal scope instead, or a PVS-14 from TNVC which will work better in darker conditions, have ZERO lag and the battery will last for days, instead of < 2 hours, oh, and will have some resale value too...

I am willing to bet the CMOS/CCD sensor in this thing its just a Sony sensor that has been rebadged, or worse, a knock off...

G.

You think?

Sionyx, LLC Patents

I suspect the 2020 Sensor Patents are NightWave/OPSIN

You do you, boo-boo.

Digital always catches up, this is just a fact of life

At some point someone is going to build an I2, thermal, swir ultra wide-field combo goggles all neatly fused together that are EMP shielded with a real time refresh rate....and it is just a matter of time

That last post could've dispensed with the name calling and the animosity, but if you feel relieved now... then good for you.

Oh, and the patents don't mean much, if anything, really, but I guess you think patents are some secret sauce, then good for you as well.

And lastly, let me reiterate this out loud: Don't waste your money on this digital camcorder when you can find used Gen3 scopes for less than this OPSIN digital camcorder wrapped in a tacticool housing, not a true military grade NVD.

If you are looking for a great night vision camcorder, however, my advice is to buy anything with a Sony STARVIS 2 CMOS sensor on it... you won't regret it.

G.

It is, but it already has for vehicles, right? all vehicle sensors are digital already, but then vehicles don't face the same problems as handheld devices, weight, runtime, etc, and vehicles have sensor fusion already built in. Miniaturization will eventually happen, but it won't be at a price range most mere mortals can afford... for a while... at least.

If the OPSIN had a Thermal overlay added on, even if the price was a bit higher, then I would say it was worth looking into it, but for just low-res digital visual spectrum? not really worth the massive premium IMO.

G.

The Opsin is listed as being "available" here on the 26th of September, although I'm done with relying on all of these websites and I'm just going to wait for the Opsin to be announced officially. One thing that 'officially' happened was that SiOnyx Japan website made a Opsin page, which means that it is definitely coming.

SiOnyx are a f*cking stupid-a$$ company for being so quiet and not giving actual info for their followers for delays/pushbacks as well as not posting actual footage of their devices performing in real world scenarios, I mean, we had to wait for over a month after Nightwave was released to get some footage of it. The people that got them are also to blame, no one posted sh1t for a while, props to the dude who posted the links here from the marine forum, I followed it for a while but eventually I buggered off due to frustration because NO ONE POSTED ANYTHING!

In regards to this weird discussion about digital vs. analog (same BS again...), there's already gen 3 graded digital "night vision", search on google "Canon ME20F-SH" and you'll see what I'm talking about. There's also the X27, but they are both 20,000$+. I don't know why thermal keeps being mentioned, it's not superior to Opsin or Aurora per say, it's a different system and good f-ing luck navigating with it. Aurora Pro is good, but not on par with gen 2 analog. I'm not going to argue with anyone, just buy whatever you want lol.

I should've been more specific that its the Aurora sensor technology the one that its just not there, certainly not for the exorbitant premium price they ask for... not digital/CCD/CMS technology as a whole.

In fact, CCD/CMOS sensor technology that is just as good as I2 does exist (like you said), and has existed for a long while now, cameras like my old astrocam GenWac GW902H CCD using a superfast f1.0 lens could see better than my M911 Gen2 does, especially outdoors, and that was 20 years ago!!... vehicles have used digital sensors for decades now that work just as good as I2 tech, and a combination of the two.

As for Gen3 grade digital night vision, absolutely, the X27 is particularly impressive, yet bulky, and some Sony CMOS sensors are impressive in low light performance as well, along with other cams like that Canon you've explained (thanks for the tip) are impressive too. With that said, nothing digital worth owning is nowhere near the price range of what a good old used MILSPEC Gen3 can be found for... and the OPSIN is nowhere near the level of performance these 20k cameras have, but has an exorbitant price tag compared to used Gen3.

The biggest downsides I've experienced with digital (including thermal) are battery endurance, and the small delay when headmounting it.

G.

Have you actually used an aurora?  Because your posts are not helping you in the credibility department, just saying.

I’ve looked through them. They are pretty darn good in half moon or better. I had a gen one device. It was garbage compared to the aurora.

Yes.

Again, in half moon conditions or better even my Gen0 LOMO ELF-1 works too, so... its "pretty darn good" compared to what? A Gen3 scope? don't think so. To your naked dark adapted eye? Well, at half moon that would be debatable as well, as I know people who prefer a pair of dark adapted eyes over having one perfectly good eye crippled with this (as it was stated). So its not really "pretty darn good." its "just okay"... if that.

Wish I would've had one Aurora at hand when I made this video, so I could prove beyond any shadow of a doubt how much of a disappointment this device really was...


You can try to discredit me all you want, calling me booboo, or implying that I haven't looked through one, all that does is make me more resolved to prove that this thing its just a disappointment waiting to happen, especially so for the first time NVD buyer...

One more time: this OPSIN device and the others before it are just overpriced digital camcorders for the performance (or lack thereof) you'll get, and then they are not a particularly good camcorder either like a GoPro or something like that.... So, if you are thinking you are getting a great NVD deal buying this as an NVD, you really aren't , and my advice to anyone looking to buy their first NVD, is to look for a used I2 devices before forking this amount of cash and then be disappointed. Been there, done that.

G.

The Canon is quite bulky though. Not something you could wear on your head.

The technology still needs maturing and miniaturization.

No one has a clue what the OPSIN Sensor will look like in the real world, there's only the the two Nightwave boating vids posted above - so speculation is cool and all that, but based on the 2020 patents, it's their 3rd Gen Sensor (based on some IVAS tech?)

Be careful what some people *say* on the internet, without providing proof. Better to see what they *do*, with video, and 20 other dudes from this very board section around, to call BS if it's a lie. Used within it's performance envelope (no darker than NL4 without IR assistance), the 2nd Gen Pro Sensor is fantastic. $750 with warranty, and if you jump to Analog Gen3, you'll then be able to film yourself for IG cool points - or sell it.

In the below video, even the course director acknowledged they were working well, with just a designator, and no illuminator. But don't believe your lying eyes and ears I guess.

NL4 - Video re-rendered once in OpenShot to flip it, and then compressed again by YouTube, during upload - Screen image (due to insane pixel count on a 1.25" OLED) was awesome to the naked eye

We don't need to know, at that price range, even if its marginally better, you are still better off with I2, battery runtime alone. At that price you can buy a FLIR Breach, or similar, which will provide a tangible force multiplier, vs a force divider... otherwise there is simply not enough of an edge to compete vs an I2 equipped foe, or naked eyes + digital SWIR or LWIR.

Curious, says who it was NL4? you, right?

That video appears dim, and has barely any useful contrast on it, exactly how I remember mine before returning it; and lets admit that if it wasn't b/c of all these IR beacons you wouldn't tell there was someone moving around, sneaking up on you before you calling "hit""hit" or someone screaming in your face "bang""bang". Buying an Aurora its like trying to convince someone to bring an airsoft rifle to a hunting trip...

As for "watch what they do", well... that is simple, lets see what I do: I own a large collection of Gen3 NVDs, multiple thermals... but.... 0 digital.... so... where does that leave things?

G.

Figure 1

Figure 2

Figure 3

I had to dig these out, but the photos tell a story - (a)  The Pro works as advertised in starlight conditions - NL4 (b) it is very sensitive to frame rate and (c) is improved further by use of the latest firmware.  

It has two very significant pros (a)  It can be used in high illumination conditions without damage (b)  You are not restricted by ITAR

Is it (the Pro) a replacement for 35* SNR and 72lp/mm - no, but it represents great bang for buck and is a very effective general use "night vision" capable camera within its operating window.  

The figures above, give a good representation of relative performance toward the limit of the Pros capability, starlight only and under tree cover is where it starts to fail (at 30fps) whereas the G2+ is still giving a clear and clean image.  The failure point can be delayed by reducing frame rate to 7.5 fps.  

Note - 1:  The first two figures, were shot using the release firmware.
Note - 2:  Compare the top right image and the bottom left image in figure 3, the combination of firmware and frame rate make a clear difference.
Note - 3:  All images looked better to the naked eye.
Note - 4:  All images have been compressed.

The OPSIN should improve on this, however the degree of improvement is limited by the inherent nature of the technology.  For example the QE of the SiOnyx CMOS approaches 90% for some parts of the spectrum - perhaps this efficiency level can broadened across the whole effective spectral range (~300 - 1200nm) - add to this better optics plus enhanced software and you will get real, but incremental improvement.

Photos don't tell much of a story. In fact, I consider those pictures rather misleading, making substandard equipment appear better than it really is, especially when the person who is buying their first scope could just buy a used I2 device, that will not disappoint, and for less.

a) A night vision device is meant to enhance you seeing at night, if its bright then there is no need for any NOD at all... and for that there is thermal...  b) ITAR is not a concern for US citizens living in the US.

I saw a lot of great reviews on Youtube as well, that is why I decided/wanted to try one... then I was like... meh... I am sticking to I2.

As for bang for the buck, well, that is debatable, right? especially when you can buy two AGM-TM160 thermal scopes for the cost of a single Pro, or say, a FLIR Breach, for the price of this upcoming OPSIN.

exposure time = delay = useless for headmount.

G.

OK.  Better than hot air.   Post some data/images - its simple to do.

I have, in detail - right down to the specs of the image capture/device.  Please feel free to post yours.  I have, @mickdonaldson has.  Neither of us have skin in the game.  

If you have some unique insight - go for it.

Images/videos do tell the story and they can clearly do that, as shown in figs.1 - 3.

Why such Jihads about some boxes with some electronic-spaghetti in them which, depending on the sophistication of the box, will, some sooner some later, be dismissed by the next generation boxes with the next generation spaghetti in it. So the Jihads can continue. So is it, alt least for our private use, about Jihads or is it about having fun with and discussions about that technologie and where their paths might lead or end oO?

Aside from you seeing with your own lying eyes that they work great head mounted, do you want a video of me driving a GMC 1500 at 40mph on dirt back roads? Just like the debunking of myths 2-3 years ago, you're using spec sheet arguments that don't translate into the real world - you can't notice 30 milliseconds. Do you crash into other cars on the road, when you blink? Because that's 300 milliseconds.

No Sionyx Pro user (at least the sane ones) has ever said they are "just as good across the board" as I2 - guys like you fall into that trap constantly. What they are, is an extremely affordable way, to have really good performance (walk/run/shoot/drive), as long as the user understands the NL grading system, and stays out of NL5 (if they don't want to go active).

The OPSIN Sensor, looks promising, but we'll see. I agree that it is a tough sell at the retail price listed, if someone is ok buying non-warrantied, used I2 or doesn't want to deal with selling, if they decide to go warrantied Analog Gen3. I won't, because of the proprietary mounting system - can't put it HMT next to my MH25. Maybe @GroundhogOZ will buy it

For me, because a tech forum should provide technically accurate data, based on real world use, so readers can make decisions on if the "stuff" will work for their unique situations. My I2 exposure ended when I left Active Duty in 2002, and other than the giant AN/TAS of the 1980's - I had ZERO Thermal knowledge - this section/members (and SH's) helped me make good purchasing decisions...so accurate info is a must. Like GHOz said - owning all three technologies (I2, Digital, Thermal), I have zero reason to "pump" digital, I just want the accurate, real world data available to people.

What does "I won't, because of the proprietary mounting system..." mean? care to elaborate, please?

Why or how would a video of you risking your life at 40mph at night on dirt roads prove that the scope is usable? Well, for starters its a road, isn't it?, I can drive on dirt roads with unaided eyes at night too, b/c its a road, and roads don't have hidden dangers on them...In addition, encouraging other people in a public forum to endanger their lives doing something dangerous with a toy grade scope its not sound advice either. I don't recommend driving on any roads with this thing on your head, period. This is as sound advice as telling someone that an airsoft rifle is "usable" for home defense...

Our definition of affordable is clearly different then. There is so much else you can do with 750 bucks than simply wasting them on a "new" mediocre digital camcorder...

Spec sheets can be made up, as I've seen overseas manufacturers do time and time again for other things, like radios, etc. The only real way to know how usable something really is for your application, is you getting one and trying to use it. Which is what I did, got one and saw it wasn't that good, and felt quite mislead by the YT reviews...

This new OPSIN scope doesn't seem like it will be a major improvement, but its clearly going to be a major hike in price... therefore, IMO, it should be avoided.

So, if you own both, and you can carry only one: which one would you rather take in case of a sudden emergency? your Gen3, or the Aurora? I'll take Gen3, what say you?

G.

OPSIN power and mounting are proprietary - can't power via USB, and can't mount to Wilcox/KVC Bridges for HMT/Binos (unless the aftermarket 3D Printers and Power gurus spin up). As for the rest, I feel it would be a monumental waste of time. Peace out.

it comes with a mount that fits standard helmets, and the g24 is massively over priced imo so you aren't missing out on much mount wise other than the possibility of mounting duals and or running with a thermal but I have no doubts the aftermarket will sort it out.

Well, that is one more reason to probably look elsewhere then.

Answering this question: "which scope would you rather take if you could carry only one, a Gen3 or a Syonix Pro/OPSIN..." is not a monumental waste of time.

G.

@mickdonaldson


mick - thought you might be interested in the above - it shows the spectral range versus quantum efficiency of the SiOnyx detector (black line).  I have added a grey stipple where there may be likely improvements.  They will get some good improvement ~ 15% to 20% and with software and a slightly better lens a bit more.  This will also add more starlight spectrum (blue line) which will also improve image quality.  

What most aren't aware of is the relative skew between camera based sensors and the SiOnyx detector.  Most commercial camera based detectors are heavily skewed to operate around the 500nm (0.5um) mark which is where the human eye best operates - yes they can detect out into NIR/SWIR, however, the quantum efficiency is poor.  The very best commercial cameras currently available have QE approaching 90% in the 500nm range but this tails off to very low levels by 1000nm (see red trace on graph).  

Also, the very best commercial detectors/cameras are the size of a house brick but technically can work down to 0.5mlux (albeit in a relatively restricted range compared to the SiOnyx black).  Relatively speaking, the SiOnyx detector is much smaller and fronted with a cheap lens system and yet the pro gets close to 1mlux and the OPSIN will operate at 1mlux.  Both have the advantage of exposure to a much broader starlight response (blue line).  Moreover, the Pro/OPSIN can easily detect 1064nm lasers and more common OOB lasers/illuminators that can't be (well) picked up by G3IIT.  

For those interested, its possible to buy a commercial 0.5 mlux system but it will cost around 20k - in other words nearly 33 times the price of the Pro (when I purchased a Pro for personal use) for about double the performance but in a relatively restricted spectral range (red line).  

I will pick up an OPSIN out of my own pocket, or rather will do that if its ever released.

Groundhog do you have figures 1 & 2 with the 1.34 sw update? Judging by figure 3 it makes a massive difference, maybe Gman only tested the release sw which would explain his disappointment?

No, but I could redo them on 26th when the moon will be absent and just starlight available - if I have the time I'll redo them.

Duovox Mate Pro... looks promising... haven't gotten one yet... it sure looks a lot better than the Pro...



G.