Awesome thanks!

I'm glad you had both to compare because the ctf performance in your video does look a lot like my own personal experience with the VIR2, but the fact you could compare both under the same conditions shows the VIR2 is not nearly as bright.

Neither of them seem to be good at even 100 yards though. Maybe it's all the spill autogating the tube or maybe it's the camera adjusting the brightness but it seemed like if there was someone standing at the treeline neither one would have provided much more detail or info than without the light.

Maybe one of their future reflectors can be dedicated to maximizing throw.

Thanks for the video! I went back and edited my post declaring the CTF-1 a really expensive TLR VIR II as the IR illuminator on the CTF-1 is actually far superior. That was a little hasty. My bad..

Based on some of the previous videos posted, I think this unit would be great for anyone wanting to consolidate their civilian laser/illuminator and white light setups.

An example would be buying the CTF1 instead of:
otal-c, dual switch, Surefire vampire, UE tailcap, and light mount.

You can buy the ctf-1 that does the same job as the example above and it’s all in one housing. No need to set up tape switches or light mounts. Pretty cool. Much like their product description states, it’s not to be expected to compete with a mawl or full power units. Seems obvious that it is slightly to moderately better than the pistol setups.

My opinion on the white light delete:
It would be useless to change the configuration of this unit unless it was to adopt a MAWL-like configuration that is better ergonomically. If you delete the white light for any other reason, you take away the one significant advantage that this unit has to offer over other civilian systems (consolidation).

My idea for a possible improvement (like anyone cares):
wrap the white light to the 3oclock side of the rail, below the IR head. Add two big fire buttons that are part of the body at 12oclock like the mawl. Add a crane switch port. Make the heads adjustable for change in flood/throw.
Bam. Now you have consolidation, adjustability, and ergonomics.

F’ the leftys, they can use the switch port

I really want this company to succeed. Augee (of TNVC) told it straight and cold about the economic realities of this industry in the "low(er)-cost alternative" thread. This company seems like a very fortunate anomaly in that context and I wish them the best.

If the white light is on par with the Streamlight pistol module, I cast another vote for just deleting the white light for their next product. Just remove that weight and cost, make one larger central squarish button...maybe two in tandem MAWL-style if a "low" and "high" mode won't significantly affect the price or reliability. Another poster suggested keeping the current form and having a "low" IR illuminator on one side and a "high" on the other, which also seems much more appealing than a totally anemic white light (especially for its size), I'd take that as well.

Someone from TNVC or Phantom Hill explained that merely adding a port significantly adds to cost. One of the main purposes of this device is to have a viable low-cost alternative to pistol or Chinese devices.

Yeah... I decided to make the switch on my 300blk which is primarily a nighttime toy. The additional rail space is nice but the reduced bulk and weight is real nice.

Yeah, I get that they want to come in at a certain price point, but right now the D2 and MAWL are the only game in town for civilians looking for a decent IR/VIZ laser unit with useable IR light and both of those are heavy and bulky.  If someone could come out with a lighter weight alternative that was competitively priced with the D2 they'd sell nicely in my opinion.  It would be one thing if the "high end" civilian market was saturated, but it's pretty far from saturated right now it's sparse.  

The Steiner D2 came out how long ago? 2015? It's been a minute at any rate.  Should be someone by now who could come out and do what the D2 does in a lighter and smaller package. Seems to me like these guys at Phantom Hill could do it.  

It says good things about you that you’re will to admit you were wrong. I’m moving back toward considering one of these for my collection.

How about have one illum head be a focused LR IR and one be the current more spilly IR Illum and have each button actuate the IR laser to fire along with whichever IR head button is pressed?

BOOM, “mini MAWL”.


ETA: I got onto the phantom hill website and sent Mike that suggestion. Probably won’t go anywhere, but I think it has merit.

Thank you! I think I'll be pretty happy with the CTF-1 on my 300blk, but I'm expecting a baby any day now so I won't be able to do any proper testing for a little while. I at least feel really confident in the support after e-mailing back and forth with Mike.

Even better.

Then everyone gets to keep their preferred white light.

I think the D2 market share would be very vulnerable to this unit design if it was a true IR laser/illuminator performance match and the white light was somewhat comparable to a PLH or even 600DF in performance, or could take those heads, and then added a slaved visible laser. It seems the economics of designing that and getting it to market anywhere near the D2 price would make this extremely difficult and an unlikely risk for a new US company. Phantom Hill seems to have a ton of potential for the "blue collar" laser market, but they are up against Holosun on one end and big entities with government contracts on the other. But yes, I too would love the option of a more refined and high-end version of the CTF-1 in the DBAL marketspace. Hope they get there.

You probably are aware, but just in case or for anyone reading, Wilcox is apparently trying to release a Class 1 Raid Xe, and Z-Bolt is promising some VCSEL Class 1 lasers soon.


I appreciate what you've shared, but you've got much bigger priorities now, congrats!

The RAID-XE is likely to be in the same territory as the MAWL price wise. Way WAAAAYYYY outside the bounds of reality for most people.

I added that because he mentioned the MAWL and D2 as the currently available high-performing civilian-class units, though the MAWL is almost twice the price. It's not clear yet where Z-Bolt's offerings will be.

Botkin video briefly demonstrating CTF-1 white light and IR illuminator/laser, out to a range of roughly 130 yards. I have to say, the unit's performance appears much better than I expected from the impressions shared here. Like many, he does wish the buttons were spaced apart a bit more and that the light was more powerful, but overall a positive impression.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CV38iCNlcJK/

I have a hunch that they purposely made the button module replaceable (as it appears to be all one piece, screwed down from the top), and that they will release a revised button module at some point.

Who knows?

But I would bet money that this unit will be successful enough to allow them a gen2 revision.

Man, if they could have just made the ir illuminator reach 250 yards. Shoot, even 200 and I’d be all over it.

The videos released prior to the device purported 400+ yards in the illuminator. Not sure what happened there...

There has been some real interesting speculation here.  And some interesting suggestions, not to mention market analysis.  

To start with, yeah I am down with the "blue collar" LAM approach.  Don't know where it might go, or even if it has a chance, but props to these guys for getting into the arena and trying.  Be interesting to see if big main-line vendors such as Streamlight and CS continue to push this envelope, not to mention if any more "boutique" mfg's pop up and give it a go.  Be interesting to see if recent proliferation of NV has made any dent in overall sales, where these guys are paying more attention to it as a possible emerging market, vs a small, specialized niche.  I'll leave that to all the market gurus.  

Again my initial impression was this thing is optimized for use with a RDS.  So having dual illum made a lot of sense, since it's just there to supplement light to see reticle.  The IR laser is merely a back-up for when you can't get behind the reticle.  Now how well it does that is another subject, but in concept, that's what makes the most sense to me.  With the increased emphasis on using a RDS with NV, it would seem logical that some folks would be exploring this option.

So from that standpoint, I think the WL is essential; it's half of the illum equation.  If lasers are now your BU sights (would that be LBUS or BULS?), having two spectrums of illum is what I'd want here, with the lasers now playing a secondary role.   So while the illum may be a little anemic, in the pistol module range, I like this concept.  So dunno, could be FOS, but that's what this thing said to me.    

Man some of you guys need to work in R&D dept's somewhere.  You have a lot of great ideas, and it makes me wonder if the big boys have thought of any of this, or if they have and there's reasons they ain't doing it.  For instance, I really like the idea of the "mini-MAWL", where you could switch out heads/modules and customize the thing with shit like low IR/illum on one side and high IR/illum on the other.  Or maybe low viz/illum, and high IR/illum.  Or what the hell, low viz/illum, and high viz/illum.  Whatever two modes make the most sense for you.

Yeah I'm a big fan of the "wrap-around" principle myself.  Love to see one module rolled off to the left, the other to the right, and big-ass buttons on the centerline.  Do the MAWL one better, make it totally ambi, by making it "grip-able" from either side.  Sorta like two flashlight bodies joined by a control panel/mount.   Hey: Surefire!?

While the performance isn't blowing anyone away, the few people I've had a chance to get hands on it really like it. One of them with the same complaints you hear throughout this forum about button size, position, ports, etc. Even he wants one now. So, I think it's at least a good step in the right direction. I don't see that anyone has posted regretting theirs so that's also good news?

This is why I ordered one. It's kind of perfect for SBR's. It's replaces my TAPS, OTAL, and 300V. It's a CQ gun. While I can, I don't plan on shooting past 200yds with it. My current white light left a little to be desired, but again, CQ gun. I don't need daylight past 100yrds. That's what the NODS are for.

On my SPR, I'd want something more powerful that this, but I also have the rail space to allow for a proper long range setup.

I hope there's no issue cross-pollinating with Reddit, but I found this helpful review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NightVision/comments/qoc0v6/t2_ctf1_surefire/

So, with the release of the Kiji, it perfectly illustrates why they should have gone with industry standard light head mounting surfaces.

Just imagine how cool it would be to put a Kiji head on the IR illuminator side!

Agreed. Missed opportunity.

The kiji is getting my money and it only does one of the three things the ctf does, but it does it really well. Imagine if the ctf could build on that instead of compete with it.

I'm absolutely in the market for this, and I'm not quite going to be a customer yet because of the flaws noted. However, I think the way they could fix this and make everyone happy:

- change the unit from taking two CR123s to a single 18650 where the right side battery is now. Bonus points if they make a mirrored left hand version, or a screw in battery port so you can switch sides. It could use two 18350s too if that would work better, but I'd rather have one big battery on my weak side.

- now that it's taking an 18650 battery it should be able to use modlite (surefire DF) or malkoff (Surefire scout) heads. Make both sides take these screw in heads, sell the unit bundled with light heads, or without so people can mix and match their own.

- add a single large fire button, spanning the distance between the two switches now. Above the fire button have a side to side selector switch- fire left illuminator, off, fire right illuminator. On the side somewhere, a forward backward switch- laser on, laser off.

Now you've got far more powerful illumination, and way more options- run a low power malkoff vis light and a wide, floody IR head for close quarters. Or a softer, floody IR head and a really tight long range IR head for derogated NV use indoors and out. Or a long range IR head and a surefire Vampire for short range IR and vis and long range IR. Or turn the illumination to off and turn the laser on for laser only. Solves the white light ND concerns too.

I think your ideas are mostly good suggestions, but I think keeping two separate fire buttons for vis/IR is preferable for most people. Fiddling with switches kind of sucks. Maybe keep it simple and have three buttons? White/laser/laser+illuminator. It should help keep cost and complexity down. Buttons could be arranged in a triangle with laser only at the apex, logically representative of the shape and capability of the unit.

The latest comparison. Sounds like a more in-depth review is pending:

Seems like a pretty reasonable review.

Instagram teaser gif" />

Let’s try this again.

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Phantom Hill LLC (\u0040phantomhill.design)

Here you go.

Looks like they are listening to the peanut gallery.

Attached File

Oh this is getting spicy

YES

If this comes to market with an optional kiji head and a cloud defensive/modlight head threading, I'm fucking in.

Getting enough juice will be the roadblock, they need to ditch the dual CR123 and move to dual 18350. Then they need some kind of vis laser, if Holosun can do it so can they.

C'mon Phantom Hill, we're rootin for ya!

I agree with the battery upgrade.

I don't need a vis laser. Never used it anyway.

BE Meyers specifically states the KIJI cannot be run on 6V bodies, CR123’s only.  

Ah that stinks.

In. In so hard in. In in in.

This with a couple Arisaka light heads

Only other thing I think they need to address after this is the buttons. To easy for a white light ND.

Love they are listening tho!!

Yeah, I was going to say, totally awesome to offer an option like that. I hope they have drop down selectors in the shopping page for you to pick your white and IR.

Could do a Malkoff E1HT white and Kiji IR. Both can do 3v. Or for a budget build or PCC you could do the Arisaka IR head.

Now we are talking .
Add a vis laser.

Button changes.

Master off

WL  on the left side with a tail switch for independent operation and slaved override to the Vis laser w/WL button.

Buttons on unit

IR  laser alone  ( left rear)
IR  laser w/ IR Illum (left forward)
Vis laser alone (right rear)
Vis laser w/ WL ( right foreword-- less likely accidental firing)

No IR illum alone button. If you need IR illum you probably need or should have your IR laser on as well.

No selector switches to mess with, KISS learn your buttons.

HOLOSUN might feel some heat soon.

You're missing the whole fucking point of this unit.

BUDGET

Some are willing to pay more for more features.

I'll wait for the CTF-2.  No worries.

Phantom Hill is listening and researching what shooters want or need.  Read at the beginning about proprietary widgets( light heads). No need to re-invent the wheel. Phantom Hill as it would seem is trying to develop a modular LAM.  I'll bet they develop a different button panel with 2 laser options etc. Order what you want the way you want it.

Let see what happens.

I agree. Use parts that are already available that are superior. But again, the whole premise of this was a budget unit to compete against Chinese units. By the time you add all the wizzbang shit on it, you're not far from a mawl.

I agree 100%, but what I think will happen is, as Phantom Hill continues to grow, they may have multiple product offerings.

Original style for budget friendly shooters, maybe a mid-range unit with a vis laser added, and maybe a high end unit with vis laser plus dual switch ports like a DBAL-A3.

Now you're getting my attention...

Have it take 18650 batteries and if the light heads is 3v use a cr123 and dummy battery it gives the end user the most options.
Alternately use a cr123 and include or sell a extender tube to fit 18650 (look up mod armory’s breach battery extender same concept)

I see nothing wrong with multiple options.

I just want an ir/illum that is worth a fuck. If it has a dedicated white light that is bright and works then cool.

This is getting real...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY-VfRrrZa7/