Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 10/14/2017 11:14:47 AM EDT
I have been researching NV and thermal off and on for a couple of years now trying to make a decision. Thermal is really starting to drop in price, so my question is - for a beginner, does it make sense to just start with thermal instead of NV?

I am looking to purchase in the next several months with a budget around $2k to $2400.

Any advice for a beginner to get good technology at a reasonable price.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 11:16:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Thermal for detection and I2 for identification/navigation.

I started with I2 and I’ll eventually be adding a FLIR TWS (one of the new closes expensive Boson core devices, if they ever drop).
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#2]
If I were in a "you can only have one" situation, it would be NV, absolutely no questions asked.

Thermal is an absolutely awesome tool... for detection and engagement. If that's all you're worried about, then perhaps thermal is all you need.

NV allows for movement, stealth, positive ID, navigation, etc.

As I've said before, if all you're concerned about is hunting hogs and 'yotes from a fixed/semi-fixed position on your own property and/or terrain that you know well, thermal alone may be enough for you.

But if you're trying to be prepared for anything beyond that, whether it's a natural disaster that knocks out the power, or full-on Red Dawn scenarios, then NV will be infinitely more useful--because ultimately, detecting and engaging is only a small part of what you need to be able to do in the dark.

~Augee
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 12:55:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Both?
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 2:36:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thermal for detection and I2 for identification/navigation.

I started with I2 and I’ll eventually be adding a FLIR TWS (one of the new closes expensive Boson core devices, if they ever drop).
View Quote
This.

Especially keeping in mind a hunter was just killed by another hunter just using a thermal. Unless you are talking really high end thermal you are shooting at a glowing "blob", especially at longer ranges. So if you are on a budget I'd say I2 (Scope or mono or whatever), Then get spoter thermal to detect stuff (pulsar 32, or 50).
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 2:57:24 PM EDT
[#5]
What about at ranges 100 yards or less?
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 5:32:21 PM EDT
[#6]
You didn't say what you want to use it for. The answers given have good info, but if you have been looking for a couple of years, you know that much. Hunting vs navigation vs SHTF defense. It does make a difference.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 11:05:09 AM EDT
[#7]
You have to tell us what you want to use it for.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 4:49:00 PM EDT
[#8]
What they said above^ whats the use? If hunting, thermal hands down without a doubt 100%. I've used both extensively. Gen 3 4x and 6x I2 scopes, PVS-14 gen 3 with and without magnifiers and IR laser combos. I sold my NV to buy more thermal scopes. You can get thermal for the same price or cheaper than any NV that would be even remotely competitive. All my friends and I started with spotlights for hogs. Got NV and could imagine how we used to find them with spot lights. Then got thermal and had no idea how we used to find them with just NV. For hunting, a thermal can't be beat.

Now if you are playing ninja, or need to see things closer than 50-75 yards and need to be able to move and see at the same time, then a PVS14 type set-up starts to make a lot more sense. I don't shoot at things that shoot back at me, so thermal is the way I'd go if that is your use case.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 5:59:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What they said above^ whats the use? If hunting, thermal hands down without a doubt 100%. I've used both extensively. Gen 3 4x and 6x I2 scopes, PVS-14 gen 3 with and without magnifiers and IR laser combos. I sold my NV to buy more thermal scopes. You can get thermal for the same price or cheaper than any NV that would be even remotely competitive. All my friends and I started with spotlights for hogs. Got NV and could imagine how we used to find them with spot lights. Then got thermal and had no idea how we used to find them with just NV. For hunting, a thermal can't be beat.

Now if you are playing ninja, or need to see things closer than 50-75 yards and need to be able to move and see at the same time, then a PVS14 type set-up starts to make a lot more sense. I don't shoot at things that shoot back at me, so thermal is the way I'd go if that is your use case.
View Quote
I would take one ok thermal over three great I2's. Can't shoot what you can't see.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 9:16:44 PM EDT
[#10]
If you could only have one I would get night vision. You will get way more use out of it than a thermal. I like the ability to navigate in the dark by having helmet mounted night vision. I can also use the optic on my gun or the IR laser.

My ideal setup would be a thermal handheld for scanning and helmet mounted night vision with an IR laser/illuminator for everything else.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 3:25:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What about at ranges 100 yards or less?
View Quote
The upper end thermal units like the Mk III Hunter pretty much have adequate resolution to make an ID at 100 yds and less. I can't speak to the units that cost 1/3 of the Mk III's. 

A PVS-14 and an illuminator will let you ID a target at 100 yds fairly easily. Add an IR laser and night hunting at the ranges you cite is easy.

If it were me, I'd get a good PVS-14, and an IR laser/illuminator...and save up for a dedicated thermal as the prices come down. 
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 10:55:25 AM EDT
[#12]
I thought I would just need thermal for hunting, I was wrong. It's great for a still hunt, but getting to and fro is why I decided to get the PVS-14. Driving around in the dark in a SXS is no fun with a weapon mounted thermal.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 11:36:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 4:54:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The upper end thermal units like the Mk III Hunter pretty much have adequate resolution to make an ID at 100 yds and less. I can't speak to the units that cost 1/3 of the Mk III's. 

A PVS-14 and an illuminator will let you ID a target at 100 yds fairly easily. Add an IR laser and night hunting at the ranges you cite is easy.

If it were me, I'd get a good PVS-14, and an IR laser/illuminator...and save up for a dedicated thermal as the prices come down. 
View Quote
With a MKIII identification out to 300 yards is pie.

Took my brother and a friend hog hunting one night. My brother and I both had thermal the friend had a pvs22 clip-on.
I spotted hogs with thermal and we set up to shoot. Hogs at 50 yards in the woods. My brother and I kept waiting on the friend to see the hogs.
Well he never could see them and we killed without him firing a shot.
Night vision is great for driving and walking at night.

I used a BAE UTC clip-on before and could easily identify game past 800 yards. At 200 I could count the horns on bucks that were NOT in velvet.

Both is the only amswer.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 5:38:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I have been researching NV and thermal off and on for a couple of years now trying to make a decision. Thermal is really starting to drop in price, so my question is - for a beginner, does it make sense to just start with thermal instead of NV?

I am looking to purchase in the next several months with a budget around $2k to $2400.

Any advice for a beginner to get good technology at a reasonable price.

Thanks!
View Quote


Yes it makes sense, but keep in mind the price point for a thermal that is better than i2 is going to be higher than i2.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 5:41:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
With a MKIII identification out to 300 yards is pie.
View Quote
I have the 60mm unit and I can ID human/horse/cow/pig at 500 easy. Probably more, but have not had the opportunity.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 8:21:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the 60mm unit and I can ID human/horse/cow/pig at 500 easy. Probably more, but have not had the opportunity.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a MKIII identification out to 300 yards is pie.
I have the 60mm unit and I can ID human/horse/cow/pig at 500 easy. Probably more, but have not had the opportunity.
I have never used the MK III but that would be my first pick for a medium to long range sight.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 8:14:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes it makes sense, but keep in mind the price point for a thermal that is better than i2 is going to be higher than i2.
View Quote
Yeah, given the OP's 2k budget I don't think he's gonna get into a 640 core thermal with nice glass. At best he might get into a 320 core pulsar or something like that.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 8:28:55 AM EDT
[#19]
I've played with both.

NV would be my first choice because of cost, mobility, and you can couple it with an IR laser.

That said, if you are in unfamiliar surroundings, I can see how one can miss someone camouflaged in the foliage.  That's where thermal shines. 

Best scenario is have both. 
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 3:14:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've played with both.

NV would be my first choice because of cost, mobility, and you can couple it with an IR laser.

That said, if you are in unfamiliar surroundings, I can see how one can miss someone camouflaged in the foliage.  That's where thermal shines. 

Best scenario is have both. 
View Quote
Both is definitely the answer. I own NV and have rented thermal a few times. NV alone is great for walking around and identifying things, but it doesn't even come close to the ability to find animals that thermal has. I've been driving around and almost hit 2 coyotes and didn't know they were there until they ran in the road. I've also sat at a bench and had a heat signature at 1000yds show up and I started calling. Came straight in and popped the coyote at 100yds.

I don't think 2k will get you NV and a laser, but 2k does get you a PTS233. You'll just have to be very careful of what your target actually is.
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 9:30:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If I were in a "you can only have one" situation, it would be NV, absolutely no questions asked.

Thermal is an absolutely awesome tool... for detection and engagement. If that's all you're worried about, then perhaps thermal is all you need.

NV allows for movement, stealth, positive ID, navigation, etc.

As I've said before, if all you're concerned about is hunting hogs and 'yotes from a fixed/semi-fixed position on your own property and/or terrain that you know well, thermal alone may be enough for you.

But if you're trying to be prepared for anything beyond that, whether it's a natural disaster that knocks out the power, or full-on Red Dawn scenarios, then NV will be infinitely more useful--because ultimately, detecting and engaging is only a small part of what you need to be able to do in the dark.

~Augee
View Quote
+1
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 10:08:43 AM EDT
[#22]
What do you want to do with it?
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 12:34:44 PM EDT
[#23]
I guess op died because he couldn't see in the dark!

I went with a dedicated thermal site for pig and coyote hunting.
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 4:00:41 PM EDT
[#24]
$2k will get you a pvs-14 on the used market. You'll need an IR laser to go with it to actually shoot things though.

$2k will get a thermal that can help you kill things that are warmer than surrounding things, but probably won't help much beyond that. Thermal doesn't really come "alive" until the 3-4k threshold.



The correct answer is i2, then thermal. Hunting animals with thermal only is scary... You need to keep saving, or sell some of the guns you don't use.
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 2:40:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
$2k will get you a pvs-14 on the used market. You'll need an IR laser to go with it to actually shoot things though.

$2k will get a thermal that can help you kill things that are warmer than surrounding things, but probably won't help much beyond that. Thermal doesn't really come "alive" until the 3-4k threshold.



The correct answer is i2, then thermal. Hunting animals with thermal only is scary... You need to keep saving, or sell some of the guns you don't use.
View Quote
Come on man there is no one correct answer.  For a lot of people including me a pvs14 is/was a total waste of money.  A helmet rig looks cool but if you are hunting open country you know it’s a boat anchor.   Lol hunting animals with thermal only is scary? Scary??  Honestly I’d say that’s ridiculous and yes I know about the dumbass that shot the guy in the head and the story here about the cow.  If you can’t handle guns and their protocols then you can’t, day or night.  As to thermal coming alive at a price point, an Armasight predator at $2k or less used will get the job done under most conditions.
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 12:17:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:Hunting animals with thermal only is scary..
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:Hunting animals with thermal only is scary..



Quoted:
As to thermal coming alive at a price point, an Armasight predator at $2k or less used will get the job done under most conditions.
I would hate to go back to I2 for hog hunting.
Link Posted: 10/26/2017 10:30:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Thank you for the replies. I have been away from the PC for awhile and didn't get back to the thread.

I live in a rural area, so I am looking for something to scan my property for potential nuisances. I don't envision hiking through the property or being very mobile, but rather scanning and trying to determine if something needs a closer look.  

Probably would also use it for some hunting.

I have been looking at PVS-14's, but most of the gen III stuff I have seen is closer to $3k. On the surface, thermal just seems to make more sense for my use...
Link Posted: 10/27/2017 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thank you for the replies. I have been away from the PC for awhile and didn't get back to the thread.

I live in a rural area, so I am looking for something to scan my property for potential nuisances. I don't envision hiking through the property or being very mobile, but rather scanning and trying to determine if something needs a closer look.  

Probably would also use it for some hunting.

I have been looking at PVS-14's, but most of the gen III stuff I have seen is closer to $3k. On the surface, thermal just seems to make more sense for my use...
View Quote
If you want to see warm things then yes. NV will give a much better picture of whats going on around your place.
Link Posted: 10/27/2017 1:55:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you want to see warm things then yes. NV will give a much better picture of whats going on around your place.
View Quote
Thermal magically picks up cold objects also
Link Posted: 10/27/2017 7:31:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thank you for the replies. I have been away from the PC for awhile and didn't get back to the thread.

I live in a rural area, so I am looking for something to scan my property for potential nuisances. I don't envision hiking through the property or being very mobile, but rather scanning and trying to determine if something needs a closer look.  

Probably would also use it for some hunting.

I have been looking at PVS-14's, but most of the gen III stuff I have seen is closer to $3k. On the surface, thermal just seems to make more sense for my use...
View Quote
You know your needs best; we don’t know anything about your property.   I was pushed towards I2, spent a lot of money on it, then got out in the field with it and realized I had made a mistake.   Try to borrow some stuff maybe?
Link Posted: 11/23/2017 10:47:30 AM EDT
[#31]
I have 2 640 core thermals. NV has longer battery life, tends to be slightly lighter with better fov. 640 core will ID better than NV for me, and hunting it is generally increadably better.  NV for navigation. I try to scan with it, but IR always finds what it missed.

In passing, I have to look hard to find things better about NV over 640 core thermal. Cost is the mind killer.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top