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Posted: 9/20/2017 11:45:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Currently i have a genII+ PVS-14 and a I2 with a SF vampire acting as the illuminator. i have a private range where i can shoot and move with lots of steel and paper target stands. this set up has been fun and has wet my appetite for shooting with Nods. Currently I’m having to switch this set up back and forth with my son if i want to shoot with a partner. I’m planning on giving him this entire setup and upgrading my rig. the options are quit endless and mind numbing. So, I’m asking for help I have 25K to spend on a night vision set up. from the TNVC inventory help me build my rig. Rifle is a SCAR 16CQC. helmet is a high cut ballistic with no rails or front plate. the rest i need to buy and want to go with a bino set up. any ideas? thanks, Chip For $25k your options are pretty much endless. Especially since you already have the rifle and a helmet. With the budget you have I would look at going with the L3 Filmless White Phosphor tubes in a Sentinel or DTNVG setup. I use the Sentinel and love it. I have heard good things about the DTNVG, but have never used one myself. I would pick up a Wilcox L4 G24 for your mount arm. Do you have any pics of the helmet? I would recommend adding the rails and attaching some Peltors or Sordins with the Unity Tactical MARK adapters. If that can't be done a new helmet would easily fit in your budget. Also look at upgrading the padding to the Zero G Deluxe Pads. Get a Mohawk MK1 Counterweight Also maybe look at IR strobes for you and your son. For the laser/illuminator I have the ATPIAL-C and love it, but TNVC has been recommending the MAWL. I have never used the MAWL, but have never heard a bad thing about it. That is pretty much what I would do with your budget  And you still have a lot left over...
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:27:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For $25k your options are pretty much endless. Especially since you already have the rifle and a helmet. With the budget you have I would look at going with the L3 Filmless White Phosphor tubes in a Sentinel or DTNVG setup. I use the Sentinel and love it. I have heard good things about the DTNVG, but have never used one myself. I would pick up a Wilcox L4 G24 for your mount arm. Do you have any pics of the helmet? I would recommend adding the rails and attaching some Peltors or Sordins with the Unity Tactical MARK adapters. If that can't be done a new helmet would easily fit in your budget. Also look at upgrading the padding to the Zero G Deluxe Pads. Get a Mohawk MK1 Counterweight Also maybe look at IR strobes for you and your son. For the laser/illuminator I have the ATPIAL-C and love it, but TNVC has been recommending the MAWL. I have never used the MAWL, but have never heard a bad thing about it. That is pretty much what I would do with your budget And you still have a lot left over...And I’d check out the new dbal a4 v2 befor deciding on a LAM. Can’t really go wrong with the MAWL though if you’ve got the coin. It’s only downside is cost and you’ve got that covered. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:30:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, for 25k I'd get some WP Binos of your choice, the IR laser you like most and a thermal scope. (Prolly a ReapIR)
I like MOD3s but I'm doing some specific stuff with them. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 2:26:29 PM EDT
[#4]
With that kind of budget, I would skip the earmuffs and get some custom molded plugs from an audiologist that have electronic amplification built into them. Earmuffs are hot and uncomfortable as shit.
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Posted: 9/20/2017 2:35:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With that kind of budget, I would skip the earmuffs and get some custom molded plugs from an audiologist that have electronic amplification built into them. Earmuffs are hot and uncomfortable as shit. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 3:43:23 PM EDT
[#6]
$25k = PVS-21's with change left over for a better helmet, mount and MAWL
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Posted: 9/20/2017 4:32:51 PM EDT
[#7]
With that budget, I would call TNVC and give them your requirements and budget. I think they would be thrilled to get your call. If I were in their shoes I would be.
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Posted: 9/20/2017 4:42:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Man, this is the ultimate wish list. Ok, I'll play. TNVC Sentinel BNVD, L3 Filmless, WP. Wilcox G4 G70 mount system (or as recommended by TNVC)). Opscore rails, if they will fit your helmet, otherwise Opscore Maritime helmet, complete with rails, "X"-nape suspension, and 4G pads. First Spear helmet cover. TNVC Mohawk Mk2 (for C/W and possible remote battery set up?). S&S Precision Manta strobe. MAWL IR/Viz laser. SF M300V IR Scout light. TAPS Pro switch. Hoplite re-focus rings (x2) , USGI LIF (x2). Wilcox IR filters (x2). Wilcox NVG lanyard. IFF IR flag patches (L&R)). IFF call sign patches (x2). Chemlites, both viz and IR. Spare lithium batts for everything. Lots of spare batts.
Ammo of choice for training. Lots of ammo. NV training courses. Additional load out as required for training. New plates/ plate carrier, mag pouches, safety glasses, gloves, etc. Go live the dream! |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 5:12:19 PM EDT
[#9]
thanks guys.
here is my helmet 
i already have the peltors but those rails and plate are airsoft quality so i need to change those. i also have a MAWL already on order but i wanted to see what others would recommend. the PVS-21's look incredibly interesting. it seems the tubes are the older green technology though. i certainly see the benefits of the shorter profile and actually seeing through the tubes would be quite helpful but would image quality and brightness be less than a bino unit with L3 filmless? thanks for the help, all. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 5:18:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, this is the ultimate wish list. Ok, I'll play. TNVC Sentinel BNVD, L3 Filmless, WP. Wilcox G4 G70 mount system (or as recommended by TNVC)). Opscore rails, if they will fit your helmet, otherwise Opscore Maritime helmet, complete with rails, "X"-nape suspension, and 4G pads. First Spear helmet cover. TNVC Mohawk Mk2 (for C/W and possible remote battery set up?). S&S Precision Manta strobe. MAWL IR/Viz laser. SF M300V IR Scout light. TAPS Pro switch. Hoplite re-focus rings (x2) , USGI LIF (x2). Wilcox IR filters (x2). Wilcox NVG lanyard. IFF IR flag patches (L&R)). IFF call sign patches (x2). Chemlites, both viz and IR. Spare lithium batts for everything. Lots of spare batts. Ammo of choice for training. Lots of ammo. NV training courses. Additional load out as required for training. New plates/ plate carrier, mag pouches, safety glasses, gloves, etc. Go live the dream! |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 5:43:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Currently i have a genII+ PVS-14 and a I2 with a SF vampire acting as the illuminator. i have a private range where i can shoot and move with lots of steel and paper target stands. this set up has been fun and has wet my appetite for shooting with Nods. Currently I’m having to switch this set up back and forth with my son if i want to shoot with a partner. I’m planning on giving him this entire setup and upgrading my rig. the options are quit endless and mind numbing. So, I’m asking for help I have 25K to spend on a night vision set up. from the TNVC inventory help me build my rig. Rifle is a SCAR 16CQC. helmet is a high cut ballistic with no rails or front plate. the rest i need to buy and want to go with a bino set up. any ideas? thanks, Chip PM Sent. |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 1:18:57 PM EDT
[#12]
You really need to check back in with us and post pics of your setup once you get it
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Posted: 9/21/2017 4:54:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You really need to check back in with us and post pics of your setup once you get it |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 4:59:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You really need to check back in with us and post pics of your setup once you get it Helmet: Crye Airframe Ballistic, Rails, Crye cover Shroud: Wilcox L4 3 hole Mount: Adams industries surface ANVIS mount Battery: Mohawk MK2, Air/ground warrior Battary pack Laser: MAWL(already ordered) Light: SF M600(already own) NVG goggles: Sintinel NV L3 omni VIII. Im a little torn here. wanted the white phosphor but wait time is long. im still thinking about focus: Hoplite x2 Thermal optic: REAP-IR 35mm scope. ( for bustin them yotes) thats a hair over 20k. thoughts on green filmed vs. unfilmed white? i still have time to change my mind. we covered a lot of ground on the phone so if i have something down there thats incompatible somebody let me know |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 5:19:51 PM EDT
[#15]
I just got my WP pvs14 from TNVC and I love it over the standard PVS14 I had, that died a painful death at the hands of Duracell. BTW use only Lithium Ion batteries in your toys
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Posted: 9/21/2017 7:28:56 PM EDT
[#16]
really want to see pics when the whole haul comes in...
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Posted: 9/21/2017 9:17:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Wow man! Great NV setup for sure
I'm currently saving up for some sentinels, and not sure weather to go WP or just green myself. I've never looked through WP. What was the wait time difference? Looking forward to pics. |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 11:51:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i will post pics for sure. Spoke at length with Chip at TNVC. Great customer support and a wealth of information. Heres the list, i will place the order next week: Helmet: Crye Airframe Ballistic, Rails, Crye cover Shroud: Wilcox L4 3 hole Mount: Adams industries surface ANVIS mount Battery: Mohawk MK2, Air/ground warrior Battary pack Laser: MAWL(already ordered) Light: SF M600(already own) NVG goggles: Sintinel NV L3 omni VIII. Im a little torn here. wanted the white phosphor but wait time is long. im still thinking about focus: Hoplite x2 Thermal optic: REAP-IR 35mm scope. ( for bustin them yotes) thats a hair over 20k. thoughts on green filmed vs. unfilmed white? i still have time to change my mind. we covered a lot of ground on the phone so if i have something down there thats incompatible somebody let me know |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 11:58:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Currently i have a genII+ PVS-14 and a I2 with a SF vampire acting as the illuminator. i have a private range where i can shoot and move with lots of steel and paper target stands. this set up has been fun and has wet my appetite for shooting with Nods. Currently I’m having to switch this set up back and forth with my son if i want to shoot with a partner. I’m planning on giving him this entire setup and upgrading my rig. the options are quit endless and mind numbing. So, I’m asking for help I have 25K to spend on a night vision set up. from the TNVC inventory help me build my rig. Rifle is a SCAR 16CQC. helmet is a high cut ballistic with no rails or front plate. the rest i need to buy and want to go with a bino set up. any ideas? thanks, Chip I have an idea that they guys at TNVC are gonna like you... |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 12:01:53 AM EDT
[#20]
If the wait is 3-4 months fo WP I would do it.
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Posted: 9/22/2017 12:07:59 AM EDT
[#21]
BTW, your budget may be a bit low.
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Posted: 9/22/2017 12:11:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i will post pics for sure. Spoke at length with Chip at TNVC. Great customer support and a wealth of information. Heres the list, i will place the order next week: Helmet: Crye Airframe Ballistic, Rails, Crye cover Shroud: Wilcox L4 3 hole Mount: Adams industries surface ANVIS mount Battery: Mohawk MK2, Air/ground warrior Battary pack Laser: MAWL(already ordered) Light: SF M600(already own) NVG goggles: Sintinel NV L3 omni VIII. Im a little torn here. wanted the white phosphor but wait time is long. im still thinking about focus: Hoplite x2 Thermal optic: REAP-IR 35mm scope. ( for bustin them yotes) thats a hair over 20k. thoughts on green filmed vs. unfilmed white? i still have time to change my mind. we covered a lot of ground on the phone so if i have something down there thats incompatible somebody let me know How bad is the wait for WP? I know L3 can take upwards of 12 months due to demand. Honestly, the Omni VIII are great and will be all you ever need... But if I had your budget I would go with filmless. Is the wait just as long for green filmless? Depending on the wait for filmless, I might consider waiting. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 12:13:38 AM EDT
[#23]
OST. This thread is going somewhere!
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Posted: 9/22/2017 6:32:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What made you go with the Anvis mount over the Wilcox L4 G24? Not knocking your decision, just curious. I use the L4 G24 and love it, but I haven't used the Anvis mount yet. I guess the nice thing about the Sentinels is you can use either mount. How bad is the wait for WP? I know L3 can take upwards of 12 months due to demand. Depending on the wait for filmless, I might consider waiting. I may indeed wait for WP. He didn't give an exact time, just several months. Green was ready to go. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 6:33:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI struggled with raiding the kids college fund for those. College won out, actually the wife won out. I'd have sent him to the army
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Posted: 9/22/2017 6:34:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have an idea that they guys at TNVC are gonna like you... |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 6:36:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got my WP pvs14 from TNVC and I love it over the standard PVS14 I had, that died a painful death at the hands of Duracell. BTW use only Lithium Ion batteries in your toys |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 6:43:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would rec the Pulsar XP series over the REAP for sure. Reap is good pic quality but PITA to operate. Pulsar is super user friendly plus records internally. XP50 for reaching out or XP38 for shorter distance shots. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 7:12:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Wow that's gonna be a nice set up. Pics for sure.
I think you made a good choice going anvis so you can use a remote batt pack. I am not familiar with the specifics of that set up but know having a batt pack in back is going to be lots more comfortable on long missions. Airframe is also an awesome lid. Boy, the wait times, that's tough. I'd at least wait for the new L3 filmless tech, if I could. Whether you go green or white phosphor. With your budget there's no reason not to treat yourself to the very latest tech. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 7:13:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Double tap.
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Posted: 9/22/2017 8:41:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good question. my understanding is that the sentinels don't automatically switch off when raised up with dovetail mounts but they do with the anvis mounts. Also choose anvis to move the batteries to the back doubling as a counterweight and extending battery life. Those may be false assumptions on my part so please correct me if I'm wrong. I may indeed wait for WP. He didn't give an exact time, just several months. Green was ready to go. One thing I will say is battery life is not an issue with the Sentinels. Even a single cr123 seems like it runs forever. And I'm sure the battery pack does run forever lol. I think that either way you go you're going to be happy. If for some reason you're not, the Sentinels housing is easy to switch from Anvis to dovetail and Vice versa... If green filmless is available I would pick that over the L3 Omni VIII... But I would still probably hold out for the WP tubes. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 8:58:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long did you wait? Thanks for the tip Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just got my WP pvs14 from TNVC and I love it over the standard PVS14 I had, that died a painful death at the hands of Duracell. BTW use only Lithium Ion batteries in your toys |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 9:24:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got it earlier than I expected, I guess it all depends on the availability of the tubes and TNVC under promised and over delivered. I can't say enough good things about TNVC. The really awesome part was it came just days before Irma and I was good to go for the 9 days without power. that was an awesome help Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got my WP pvs14 from TNVC and I love it over the standard PVS14 I had, that died a painful death at the hands of Duracell. BTW use only Lithium Ion batteries in your toys |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 12:31:40 PM EDT
[#34]
UNV might have WP tubes in stock.
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Posted: 9/22/2017 1:05:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got it earlier than I expected, I guess it all depends on the availability of the tubes and TNVC under promised and over delivered. I can't say enough good things about TNVC. The really awesome part was it came just days before Irma and I was good to go for the 9 days without power. that was an awesome help Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got my WP pvs14 from TNVC and I love it over the standard PVS14 I had, that died a painful death at the hands of Duracell. BTW use only Lithium Ion batteries in your toys The L3 WPT tubes are worth the wait, our specs and cosmetics are really impressive. |
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Posted: 9/23/2017 1:55:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i will post pics for sure. Spoke at length with Chip at TNVC. Great customer support and a wealth of information. Heres the list, i will place the order next week: Helmet: Crye Airframe Ballistic, Rails, Crye cover Shroud: Wilcox L4 3 hole Mount: Adams industries surface ANVIS mount Battery: Mohawk MK2, Air/ground warrior Battary pack Laser: MAWL(already ordered) Light: SF M600(already own) NVG goggles: Sintinel NV L3 omni VIII. Im a little torn here. wanted the white phosphor but wait time is long. im still thinking about focus: Hoplite x2 Thermal optic: REAP-IR 35mm scope. ( for bustin them yotes) thats a hair over 20k. thoughts on green filmed vs. unfilmed white? i still have time to change my mind. we covered a lot of ground on the phone so if i have something down there thats incompatible somebody let me know Ive purchased from both companies. It could just be what I ordered but with one company there was a wait for every single thing I've ordered(the exception was some random '14 parts I got in person when I stopped by their Redlands location) and with UNV, it all shipped within days. They both like to talk to you and make sure you're getting what you want(which I'd expect from any company selling high end, niche items) so that's a plus either way. BLUF: Don't hamstring yourself by limiting yourself to what is in stock by ONE vendor when you're looking to drop that kind of money. The L3 filmless WPT are where it's at. |
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Posted: 9/23/2017 4:40:33 PM EDT
[#37]
There is no bluff here whitehotdown....
We pride ourselves on the some the best specs in the industry along with our CS and build everything in house as why we feel the OP went with us and then talked with Chip. We are a direct distributor with both L3 and Harris and folks have gotten some of the highest specs and are willing to wait a bit for some. We also give worst case scenarios. Our TNV-14's also have a 10 year warranty and 5 year on the Sentinels. Some of the best in the Industry.
We also train with this stuff called NV for a living and our IN-HOUSE training staff is made up from Special Operations personnel we pride ourselves on. We are also a VET owned company. In the future, (teddy does not know current lead times as he is our locale shipping Manager). If you have talked with Chip, like the OP has for his purchase, we all have a better pulse of what is going out the door and our Florida office who actually builds our units. Also, glad you got into our facility, that is usually reserved for active, LE, Fed and Miil. For the OP and others who are interested in WPT and our units. Here is a White Paper on two of the subject matters. Thank you.
GREEN vs. WHITE True Speak TNV/PVS-14 and what sets us apart |
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Posted: 9/23/2017 9:28:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for the kind words Sir! The L3 WPT tubes are worth the wait, our specs and cosmetics are really impressive. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 1:22:18 AM EDT
[#39]
If you're spending that amount of $, I think you'd be foolish not to get the White Phosphorous.
JMHO. ETA: go ahead and get a couple IR strobes. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 10:15:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're spending that amount of $, I think you'd be foolish not to get the White Phosphorous. JMHO. ETA: go ahead and get a couple IR strobes. What's the significants of the strobes? Safety? |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 10:24:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check with Ultimate Night Vision(UNV). You can rent both an OMNI VIII filmed green tube and a filmless white L3 PVS14 to try and compare(you'll get the WP tubes. Hands down.) Then the rental price will be taken off of the purchase price. I'd talked to Teddy at TNVC about some L3 filmless tubes and was told it would be months! I called UNV and they told me they had them in stock and that they get 10-15 of them from L3 monthly. Ive purchased from both companies. It could just be what I ordered but with one company there was a wait for every single thing I've ordered(the exception was some random '14 parts I got in person when I stopped by their Redlands location) and with UNV, it all shipped within days. They both like to talk to you and make sure you're getting what you want(which I'd expect from any company selling high end, niche items) so that's a plus either way. BLUF: Don't hamstring yourself by limiting yourself to what is in stock by ONE vendor when you're looking to drop that kind of money. The L3 filmless WPT are where it's at. I'm going with TnVC for a couple reasons. One, I want the sentinel housing rather than the mod3 and UNV doesn't offer it. Two, TNVC has offered great customer service through out this and the few things I've ordered before. Chip spent probably close to an hour on the phone giving me the history and ins and outs of NV. UNV seems like a great company to and I really like the rental option but they don't have exactly what I want so I'm willing to wait a little bit to get it. I appreciate the heads up though |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 12:21:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I'm going with WP. What's the significants of the strobes? Safety? |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 12:35:31 PM EDT
[#43]
On the strobes, yeah safety out there. Having read some recent threads on night hunting, I think it is a very good idea to have some kind of IR identification out there. Much the same as wearing orange during daytime, the IR lights, strobes, patches, etc. are going to make sure someone else out there knows you are human rather than prey. The military uses this stuff extensively, even at the top levels. Obviously for them, working within larger teams than a typical hunting group, you have to have positive ID on targets before pulling the trigger. But, still the same, I would want to tell anyone else with IR and thermal that I'm not an animal and I'm going to be pissed if you shoot at me.
So if it was me, taking my son out with me hunting with IR and thermal, I would damn sure want to tell the world who we are. Yes the purest are gonna say the animals can also see some of that stuff so I'm not gonna use it. But I'd rather be sure nobody put rounds in me or my boy than get a game kill. I guess this is a personal decision, based on your estimate of the situation. All I know is guys that run around with this stuff for a living usually wear some kind of IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) and it would seem to be a really good idea for hunters as well. If you have to opportunity to take a NV tactics class, I would almost guarantee the studs will all be wearing some kind of IR and perhaps viz IFF. So the instructors can keep track of everybody and insure safe training. I would apply those same standards to hunting missions, because you are still live fire, and there are other possible hunters around. As always, YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 1:04:53 PM EDT
[#44]
On picking the vendors. I have this personal thing about it, which I will throw out there for your consideration, but as always, feel free to do what you want. When I am new to some skill set and I go to a vendor to get schooled up on what is what, I try much as possible to buy from that vendor. Why? Because this guy just shared valuable info with you, that took him years to accumulate. I think that has value add and want to compensate him for that. Now later on, as you gain knowledge, you may make or buy elsewhere, but at the entry level, I think the vendor should be compensated for his time and effort in educating you about your purchase. Frankly I think it's a real asshole who will call a guy up, pump him for an hour for info, and then go out and buy somewhere else at a discount. Obviously opinions vary; some guys think they're being oh so smooth by pulling this kind of shit.
On wait times. I have found that sometimes, the really good shit has longer wait times. When you want something state of the art. Or a can, or a SBR. There are certain things that just take longer to acquire. Because of the instant gratification times we live in, you can be tempted to just buy what's available instead of waiting for the really good shit. But over the years I have found that stuff like this that takes longer to get has never disappointed. It's well worth it to get in line, and wait for the really good shit. I would hate to have thin-filmed tubes and then see how good L3 filmless looks like. There are many of us out there right now with really good thin-filmed tubes that are wanting to upgrade to L3 filmless. When you have the opportunity and money to do so, I'd order them and wait for it. You won't be disappointed. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 1:37:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On picking the vendors. I have this personal thing about it, which I will throw out there for your consideration, but as always, feel free to do what you want. When I am new to some skill set and I go to a vendor to get schooled up on what is what, I try much as possible to buy from that vendor. Why? Because this guy just shared valuable info with you, that took him years to accumulate. I think that has value add and want to compensate him for that. Now later on, as you gain knowledge, you may make or buy elsewhere, but at the entry level, I think the vendor should be compensated for his time and effort in educating you about your purchase. Frankly I think it's a real asshole who will call a guy up, pump him for an hour for info, and then go out and buy somewhere else at a discount. Obviously opinions vary; some guys think they're being oh so smooth by pulling this kind of shit. On wait times. I have found that sometimes, the really good shit has longer wait times. When you want something state of the art. Or a can, or a SBR. There are certain things that just take longer to acquire. Because of the instant gratification times we live in, you can be tempted to just buy what's available instead of waiting for the really good shit. But over the years I have found that stuff like this that takes longer to get has never disappointed. It's well worth it to get in line, and wait for the really good shit. I would hate to have thin-filmed tubes and then see how good L3 filmless looks like. There are many of us out there right now with really good thin-filmed tubes that are wanting to upgrade to L3 filmless. When you have the opportunity and money to do so, I'd order them and wait for it. You won't be disappointed. It’s easy to talk on the phone about the product you like and know about. Conducting yourself properly is obviously a different item all together. Anybody can scream they are the real deal and straight up. Primary Arms. Geissele. And a few others are the only people I buy from now for very good reason. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 2:06:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the strobes, yeah safety out there. Having read some recent threads on night hunting, I think it is a very good idea to have some kind of IR identification out there. Much the same as wearing orange during daytime, the IR lights, strobes, patches, etc. are going to make sure someone else out there knows you are human rather than prey. The military uses this stuff extensively, even at the top levels. Obviously for them, working within larger teams than a typical hunting group, you have to have positive ID on targets before pulling the trigger. But, still the same, I would want to tell anyone else with IR and thermal that I'm not an animal and I'm going to be pissed if you shoot at me. So if it was me, taking my son out with me hunting with IR and thermal, I would damn sure want to tell the world who we are. Yes the purest are gonna say the animals can also see some of that stuff so I'm not gonna use it. But I'd rather be sure nobody put rounds in me or my boy than get a game kill. I guess this is a personal decision, based on your estimate of the situation. All I know is guys that run around with this stuff for a living usually wear some kind of IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) and it would seem to be a really good idea for hunters as well. If you have to opportunity to take a NV tactics class, I would almost guarantee the studs will all be wearing some kind of IR and perhaps viz IFF. So the instructors can keep track of everybody and insure safe training. I would apply those same standards to hunting missions, because you are still live fire, and there are other possible hunters around. As always, YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 6:41:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote History[b] Frankly I think it's a real asshole who will call a guy up, pump him for an hour for info, and then go out and buy somewhere else at a discount. Obviously opinions vary; some guys think they're being oh so smooth by pulling this kind of shit.
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Posted: 9/25/2017 6:20:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Yeah, the strobes n stuff are important. Professionals use this stuff all the time. The closest most of us will ever get to this community is training classes with recently retired spec ops vets. Based on what they employ in classes, I think we should transfer that to our own nocturnal activities. As Vic stated viz chemlites are employed in their training; I would think at least IR chems would be used for hunting activities, at a minimum. Besides showing where everyone is at, IR chems could be used to "bread crumb" your trail, to assist in naving back to your origin point. An IR strobe would be even better for recognition at longer distances. Strobes just show up better than steady light and draw the eye to them. If you spread out a bit as you are patrolling for prey, IFF patches on your helmet and shoulders will allow you to keep roughly on line, so nobody is out in front of anybody else's muzzle. Or luminous/IR "ranger" eyes on the back of your helmet for when you're walking single file through heavy bush. So yeah, lots of techniques to stay safe at night.
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Posted: 9/25/2017 11:15:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, the strobes n stuff are important. Professionals use this stuff all the time. The closest most of us will ever get to this community is training classes with recently retired spec ops vets. Based on what they employ in classes, I think we should transfer that to our own nocturnal activities. As Vic stated viz chemlites are employed in their training; I would think at least IR chems would be used for hunting activities, at a minimum. Besides showing where everyone is at, IR chems could be used to "bread crumb" your trail, to assist in naving back to your origin point. An IR strobe would be even better for recognition at longer distances. Strobes just show up better than steady light and draw the eye to them. If you spread out a bit as you are patrolling for prey, IFF patches on your helmet and shoulders will allow you to keep roughly on line, so nobody is out in front of anybody else's muzzle. Or luminous/IR "ranger" eyes on the back of your helmet for when you're walking single file through heavy bush. So yeah, lots of techniques to stay safe at night.
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Posted: 9/25/2017 11:21:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100% agree. Also, thanks for the tip about the strobes, makes sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
[b] Frankly I think it's a real asshole who will call a guy up, pump him for an hour for info, and then go out and buy somewhere else at a discount. Obviously opinions vary; some guys think they're being oh so smooth by pulling this kind of shit.
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