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Posted: 9/13/2010 7:43:33 AM EDT
both rifles are 5.56/.223

Mine is a 10.5" LMT upper with the GRSC 1-4x Scope on a Bobro mount.

My buddy's is an 18" Vltor VIS upper with a 4x Acog on a Larue base.


Waddau guys think would work for our rifles? thanks.


cheers, Benji
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:51:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:53:14 AM EDT by Harlikwin]
Originally Posted By benjio:
both rifles are 5.56/.223

Mine is a 10.5" LMT upper with the GRSC 1-4x Scope on a Bobro mount.

My buddy's is an 18" Vltor VIS upper with a 4x Acog on a Larue base.


Waddau guys think would work for our rifles? thanks.


cheers, Benji


What exactly do you want the rifles to do?

Standard choices are
Rifle Scope (on QD mounts) (sort of cheap)
IR laser + Goggles/mon (Flexible but spendy)
Mono-behind your optic (Versatility/sort of cheap)
Unitiy type front sight in front of your optics (big $$$)

How many thousands do you want to spend? 2-10k?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:22:41 PM EDT

What exactly do you want the rifles to do?

Standard choices are
Rifle Scope (on QD mounts) (sort of cheap)
IR laser + Goggles/mon (Flexible but spendy)
Mono-behind your optic (Versatility/sort of cheap)
Unitiy type front sight in front of your optics (big $$$)

How many thousands do you want to spend? 2-10k?


(good post ^) I'll add one more Harlikwin. What ranges will ya'll be shooting? Mono's are going to be more for up close in personal unless you throw a magnifier on it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:51:24 PM EDT
This idea was spawned from wanting to hunt nutria and other vermin after dark. Probly never gonna take a shot post 100 yds and most will be 30-50yds. That's the only use I can think of now.

We were guessing something along the lines of a PVS-14 behind the optic would be the most reasonable solution. But I'm not sure how that'll work with the specific optics we've got. I will have to ask/find out if the GRSC scope's lowest "brightness" setting is NV compatible. I'm thinking that was part of his design, but I haven't asked. And I'm not sure how the eye relief will work with that type of scope when you move your eye so far behind it by putting a monocular in that space. And what about the Acog? Will a mono behind that work with the illuminated reticule that thing's got?


thanks, this place (you guys) are always helpful.


cheers, Benji
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:05:23 PM EDT
If it doesn't have a NV setting or the lowest setting can be seen by your naked eye then the Ret will be to bright for NV. I've seen people use the lowest setting on non NV EO's and the circle dot was so bright it would drown the image out, and the bloom was pretty bad.

I've never used the trij with a mono. The regular issues with mounting a mono behind a day optic is the great loss of light due to extra glass, and also the extra length of the mono behind the daytime optic. Think of your regular cheek weld that your used to then throw the mono with a added 4in or so of length behind it. To mount it where it would be comfortable you would have to mount the trij up on the rail causing you to loose your daytime zero.

I've shot several beavers with a EO and Pvs set up. Works pretty dam good. To be honest I like it for that application better than using the d-760. You have a much greater FOV allowing you to pick the target up quickly. Only thing that you will need to do is PRACTICE mounting your pvs behind your EO in dark conditions. I mostly hunt with a mono on my helmet, and use the scope for shooting, so I haven't had a lot of time putting my mono behind my EO in a Night time environment. With practice you'll be able to go from scanning to weapon mounted in a few seconds.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:28:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By benjio:
This idea was spawned from wanting to hunt nutria and other vermin after dark. Probly never gonna take a shot post 100 yds and most will be 30-50yds. That's the only use I can think of now.

We were guessing something along the lines of a PVS-14 behind the optic would be the most reasonable solution. But I'm not sure how that'll work with the specific optics we've got. I will have to ask/find out if the GRSC scope's lowest "brightness" setting is NV compatible. I'm thinking that was part of his design, but I haven't asked. And I'm not sure how the eye relief will work with that type of scope when you move your eye so far behind it by putting a monocular in that space. And what about the Acog? Will a mono behind that work with the illuminated reticule that thing's got?


thanks, this place (you guys) are always helpful.


cheers, Benji


The GSRC has an unlit reticule option right? If so, then it will work in that mode, perhaps not ideal but it will work. I've used both monos behind unilluminated scopes as well as dedicated units with an unlit reticule and while a lit reticule is a bit easier to pickup and use the unlit ones work ok.
Mounting options vary widely, but there are "generic" units that basically attach the PVS-14 directly to the back of most normal sized scopes.

Your ACOG is a no-go, I think Vic has even posted some pics somewhere showing that it is too bright for NV use.
Best bet with the acog is either a front mounted optic (open your wallet) or a headmounted system and laser (This will work fine for the ranges you are talking about).

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:37:17 PM EDT
Yah, the GRSC (CRS 1-4x model) is also unlit/black. So the PVS-14 is the current standard for that, eh? Are there other options that are worth anything, or is everything else just kind of a waste of the money spent on it?

I'm sure it's in here, but what are the best options for a helmet-mounted unit and and laser? Will a normal red or green laser work or are we talkin' strictly IR here?


thanks a bunch, Benji
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:04:21 PM EDT
Yah, the GRSC (CRS 1-4x model) is also unlit/black. So the PVS-14 is the current standard for that, eh? Are there other options that are worth anything, or is everything else just kind of a waste of the money spent on it?

I'm sure it's in here, but what are the best options for a helmet-mounted unit and and laser? Will a normal red or green laser work or are we talkin' strictly IR here?


thanks a bunch, Benji


To much bloom when you get the laser on your target.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:12:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By km2006dmax:
Yah, the GRSC (CRS 1-4x model) is also unlit/black. So the PVS-14 is the current standard for that, eh? Are there other options that are worth anything, or is everything else just kind of a waste of the money spent on it?

I'm sure it's in here, but what are the best options for a helmet-mounted unit and and laser? Will a normal red or green laser work or are we talkin' strictly IR here?


thanks a bunch, Benji


To much bloom when you get the laser on your target.


Actually you can use a visible light laser. Just make sure its hella weak, which is the exact opposite of what you want in a quality day laser. And no I don't think anyone has done a bunch of testing on this. I did use a super cheap airsoft laser a while back and while being bright it was usable IMO (I never weapon mounted it though). If you can find a variable power laser that should work too.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:48:41 PM EDT

Actually you can use a visible light laser. Just make sure its hella weak, which is the exact opposite of what you want in a quality day laser. And no I don't think anyone has done a bunch of testing on this. I did use a super cheap airsoft laser a while back and while being bright it was usable IMO (I never weapon mounted it though). If you can find a variable power laser that should work too.


It looks fine while just looking at the beam threw the NOD, but when your hunting with it and put it on the target it blooms the whole animal. I used a otal 2 vis laser for awhile as a quick shot type of system with the 760 on my hog rig. I used it a few times but it was touchy. Example, you would have to turn it on and drop to a certain part of the target. It would bloom the whole animal, so you would kind of have to repeat process to make sure laser was in the right place. This is on hogs smaller animals would be pain in the ass in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:51:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Harlikwin:
Originally Posted By km2006dmax:
Yah, the GRSC (CRS 1-4x model) is also unlit/black. So the PVS-14 is the current standard for that, eh? Are there other options that are worth anything, or is everything else just kind of a waste of the money spent on it?

I'm sure it's in here, but what are the best options for a helmet-mounted unit and and laser? Will a normal red or green laser work or are we talkin' strictly IR here?


thanks a bunch, Benji


To much bloom when you get the laser on your target.


Actually you can use a visible light laser. Just make sure its hella weak, which is the exact opposite of what you want in a quality day laser. And no I don't think anyone has done a bunch of testing on this. I did use a super cheap airsoft laser a while back and while being bright it was usable IMO (I never weapon mounted it though). If you can find a variable power laser that should work too.



I have several visible lasers that work great with NV. You either power starve them with a trim pot or buck converter to barely light up, or use a small piece of neutral density filter to dim the dot. Reasearch the Corsak red laser. (i know they have a IR one too)

That said i still prefer a dedicated or add on if im shooting small targets. 3x minimum for me.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:18:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By benjio:
Yah, the GRSC (CRS 1-4x model) is also unlit/black. So the PVS-14 is the current standard for that, eh? Are there other options that are worth anything, or is everything else just kind of a waste of the money spent on it?

I'm sure it's in here, but what are the best options for a helmet-mounted unit and and laser? Will a normal red or green laser work or are we talkin' strictly IR here?


thanks a bunch, Benji


As for the PVS-14, there are other monos such as the MUM that are cheaper and can have comparable tubes and still take many of the accessories. Or the D300, and I'm sure there are others. What you are paying for with the PVS-14 is:

1. Many quality military accessories, compass, sacrificial lenses, 3x and larger magnifiers and so forth
2. Variable Gain feature, which can be a nice thing to have, but isn't always "necessary" its mainly nice in environments that have large variations in lighting (urban etc).
3. Since it is mil-spec basically everyone knows how to work on them and there are a lot of spare parts if it ever breaks. I have NVGs from the mid 80's that I still can find obscure parts for without too much problem. And I also have "commercial" systems that I figure if it ever breaks I'm left fixing it myself with spit and bailing wire.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:20:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:22:16 PM EDT by Harlikwin]
Originally Posted By km2006dmax:

Actually you can use a visible light laser. Just make sure its hella weak, which is the exact opposite of what you want in a quality day laser. And no I don't think anyone has done a bunch of testing on this. I did use a super cheap airsoft laser a while back and while being bright it was usable IMO (I never weapon mounted it though). If you can find a variable power laser that should work too.


It looks fine while just looking at the beam threw the NOD, but when your hunting with it and put it on the target it blooms the whole animal. I used a otal 2 vis laser for awhile as a quick shot type of system with the 760 on my hog rig. I used it a few times but it was touchy. Example, you would have to turn it on and drop to a certain part of the target. It would bloom the whole animal, so you would kind of have to repeat process to make sure laser was in the right place. This is on hogs smaller animals would be pain in the ass in my opinion.


I would imagine an OTAL would be WAYY too bright to use with NV. I used to have one, and that sucker was BRIGHT I wouldn't even think to use it with NV.

With the airsoft laser, I meant the target dot when placed on target, like a fence or the ground etc. Like I said I never did a whole lot with it aside from testing whether or not it worked. And yes if you can get neutral density filters for the laser I'm sure that would work great, just keep adding them up until you have the beam intensity that you want. Many laser microscopy systems work this way. And if you want to try it with your OTAL I'm sure it would bring the brightness down substantially.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:35:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:36:28 PM EDT by km2006dmax]

I would imagine an OTAL would be WAYY too bright to use with NV. I used to have one, and that sucker was BRIGHT I wouldn't even think to use it with NV.

With the airsoft laser, I meant the target dot when placed on target, like a fence or the ground etc. Like I said I never did a whole lot with it aside from testing whether or not it worked. And yes if you can get neutral density filters for the laser I'm sure that would work great, just keep adding them up until you have the beam intensity that you want. Many laser microscopy systems work this way. And if you want to try it with your OTAL I'm sure it would bring the brightness down substantially.


LOL.. Ya, it would make the laser look like it was going to burn a whole threw them!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:02:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 7:11:08 AM EDT by benjio]
What about the D550 Digiscope? That seems like not a horrible thing and it's an all inclusive unit that could just come on and off for occasional night work, right? At $1400 it definitely doesn't break the bank. Anyone here have/use these?

And then there's the even-cheaper NVRS-F; how bout that unit?

cheers, Benji
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:12:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By benjio:
What about the D550 Digiscope? That seems like not a horrible thing and it's an all inclusive unit that could just come on and off for occasional night work, right? At $1400 it definitely doesn't break the bank. Anyone here have/use these?


cheers, Benji


If ~1500 is fine for your budget you could look into something like a D300 for a mono or a used PVS-4 for a night sight. You have lots of options. If your budget is a bit more ~2k+ you could get into better Gen2 systems like mums or even lower end gen3 systems, I think a site sponsor is selling PVS-14/ITT 6015 with the mx10160 (gen3) tubes here for 2500ish? One of the more recent posts.

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:22:25 AM EDT
Where is the info/primer on how to mount a PVS-14 to a flattop AR? I'm a newb, I know...
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:25:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 9:32:30 AM EDT
The M845 is a good scope as well, much lighter than pvs-4 but only ~2x magnification IIRC.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 9:35:26 AM EDT
Where is the info/primer on how to mount a PVS-14 to a flattop AR? I'm a newb, I know...



There's a few types of mounts for the pvs. I have a larue on my rig that works pretty good with a throw lever. Here's one of Vics mounts that I've heard good things about. You have a base that stays on the weapon. The ring stays on the pvs so for fast transition from helmet mount to weapon. Works pretty well. I've been practicing alot with mine lately due to me being without my 760.

twist mount


Aimpoint

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:35:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 10:39:31 AM EDT by benjio]
The M845 looks like a great budget setup. If we're using it within 125yds, would we need any additional IR illumination? How would this unit compare to the 550 Digiscope? There aren't any "through" pictures for reference.

I like that its got a QD base so I could just take it off and switch. My current optic is on a QD Bobro mount so it comes off easy. Same thing would go for the Acog.

And 2x is fine; 4x Would be nice but might be a bit much at night at targets 30yds, eh?
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:58:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 11:10:45 AM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:50:16 AM EDT

While you cannot order directly from the new site until we go official live (you can call us), HERE is a sneak peak of our NEW upcoming web site showing the M845 2.8x with some brand new through the tube pics. At 125 yards, not much need for any IR supplemental lighting. We cannot say enough good things about these units for the price point. Hope this helps.

Vic



Dam Vic those pics look good! What kind of conditions were those pics taken? Would be awesome for picking up targets quickly.


Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:18:05 PM EDT
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