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Posted: 2/17/2006 6:46:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 6:46:24 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Just received ANOTHER disturbing phone call that ITT is having ANOTHER price hike!! With the latest hike, it looks as if we are seeing a total of 50 to 60% increase on the price of tubes!! Geez, we are already seeing ANPVS-14's (NON-MIL SPEC, Non-Gated, normal 64lp WITH some blemishes) going for above 4K! I stated it earlier in another post, if you want to get a quality NVD, DO IT NOW with your tax return! I've heard STRONG rumors what ITT is gearing torward and it's NOT pretty! This does not seem like it's going to get any better I'm afraid. It REALLY has started and I REALLY feel sorry for the middle man dealers out there.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 6:36:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:44:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:14:43 PM EDT by MHrabarchuk]
***Oops, wrong thread***

Moved to NV discussion and FAQ
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:12:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 7:03:13 PM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:14:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 8:21:57 AM EDT by 96Ag]

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By 96Ag:
Victor,

I saw that you have mentioned foreign tubes. Can these be purchased now or they like the tube sales mentioned above used only by other manufacturers? Which manufacturers are using the foreign tubes and What is the upside/downside to them?

Thanks in advance, I am becoming more and more interested in NV.


96Ag



Most of the better tubes are coming from the Netherlands. The "DEP" tubes are close to our Pinnacle units but VERY expensive. Their other tubes are equal to our Gen 2+ units.

I hear US Night Vision and others are using more and more Euro type tubes due to they are having a hard time getting qaulity ITT tubes. Times are tough to get consistant IIT quality due to the military demand at the present time. Just be sure when you purchase a unit, you always ask waht EXACT tube is being used in the unit. Hope this helps

Vic




So, is a DEP tube more than an ITT tube? If not would it be as good or durable (sorry I'm not quite up on what to look for in a NV) as an ITT? I appreciate you keeping up with this thread.


96Ag

ETA: Victor I just found your Industry section, I'll read it then post questions there.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:49:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:44:08 AM EDT
Victor,

I saw that you have mentioned foreign tubes. Can these be purchased now or they like the tube sales mentioned above used only by other manufacturers? Which manufacturers are using the foreign tubes and What is the upside/downside to them?

Thanks in advance, I am becoming more and more interested in NV.


96Ag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:26:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By bp_968:
>-NV Fed legislation and possible limmited sale restrictions?
>

I see this as extremely unlikely and pointless. People in the US buying and sending NVDs to enemy combatants isn't really a problem. Most of the equipment found in the hands of the bad guys so far is of russian design. Not to mention an enemy equiped and trained with even 1st generation night vision would be a huge equalizing power in night conflicts. We use flashing becons to denote friendlies and lasers to engage targets and those can all be seen with any IR capable device.

There are so many non-criminal civilian uses for NV, NOT related to firearms I just don't see it high on the congress critters priority lists. (hopefully)

That said, .gov has done stupider things before, and will again. I certainly hope your wrong.

I've also heard something about the UN taking NVD of of a restricted list? (not sure what that means).

bp



Of course I hope you are correct on ALL! ITT would be VERY happy if some sort of legislation were past!! They (themselves) just about dropped ALL commercial tube sales last year. We all get to play the waiting game this year to see what their disposition will be. It's all called greed!



I must be really confused about how business works. Why would ITT be HAPPY to have their sales market or available customer base reduced? As prices reduce, the market for civillian NV will increase by a huge amount. If you could get a low end third gen scope into sporting goods stores for 1000$ or less I could see a market in the tens of millions. Why in the world would telling even a small percentage (even 2-3%) of your market they can't buy your product help you in any way?

It would be like you not selling to non-ar15.com team members, it would be foolish.

Maybe I could see IR laser manufactures limiting sales to civilians for liability reasons (high liability for a small market) but NV is totally passive.

Basically if the feds limit sales of light enhancing or thermal imaging equipment then it will be obvious to anyone what they intend. They intend to setup and maintain a huge force multiplier over their "subjects".

bp
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:41:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:43:11 AM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:42:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:56:39 AM EDT
>-NV Fed legislation and possible limmited sale restrictions?
>

I see this as extremely unlikely and pointless. People in the US buying and sending NVDs to enemy combatants isn't really a problem. Most of the equipment found in the hands of the bad guys so far is of russian design. Not to mention an enemy equiped and trained with even 1st generation night vision would be a huge equalizing power in night conflicts. We use flashing becons to denote friendlies and lasers to engage targets and those can all be seen with any IR capable device.

There are so many non-criminal civilian uses for NV, NOT related to firearms I just don't see it high on the congress critters priority lists. (hopefully)

That said, .gov has done stupider things before, and will again. I certainly hope your wrong.

I've also heard something about the UN taking NVD of of a restricted list? (not sure what that means).


bp
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:28:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:34:56 PM EDT
So...what's the current price for a PV14 (or whatever it's called) NVD with ADJUSTABLE gain?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:46:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:41:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:21:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 8:27:30 PM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:07:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:
Here is some news from the Army Times...GREAT NEWS for our servicemen and famlies out there for buying NVD's and other gear as well.

<<<In an October issue dated 10/17, Army Times page 32, the Dept
of Defense has finally provided the forms for servicemen to download, to apply
for reimbursements. The website where they can go to download the
reimbursement form is www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd2902.pdf

They can get hard money for buying tactical gear and apparel, $1100 each!

Also, at the moment, the Senate has proposed to extend this reimbursement
program out until Oct 2006!

Unhappy with how the Defense Department limited a program to reimburse service
members, family and friends who pay for protective gear and other items the
military has not provided troops deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Senate
approved an amendment to expand the program.

The cutoff date for purchases, which already passed under current law, would be
extended to Oct 1 2006. The items covered would expand to include collective
armor or protective equipment for vehicles, advanced hydration systems, guns
scopes, global positioning systems and communications devices>>>



I am a little confused at how this is a good thing (at least for NV gear). If I spent 3500$ on a PVS14 and the government gave me 1100$ to help out, that would be great. But that form clearly states that the equipment becomes US government property. I'm sorry but the government getting used NV gear for 1100$ after the troops spent 3500$ on it is far from fair.

Now for body armor and stuff (usually under 1100$) its not a bad deal if you dont want it when your done over there.

bp
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 1:27:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:26:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 6:39:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2005 6:40:01 AM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 11:32:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2005 11:36:52 AM EDT by pevrs114]
Victor,

There is an ITT plant in Roanoke VA, do you know if this is where they make NVD's? I'm going to check their website, as I'm curious to what other products they make. I may be giving you a call when the bank account allows.

Thanks


ETA-Disregard!

ITT Night Vision

ITT Industries Night Vision
7635 Plantation Road
Roanoke, VA 24019

Telephone: 1-540-563-0371
Fax: 1-540-366-9015
Toll free: 1-800-448-8678

I wonder if they do factory seconds
Link Posted: 11/7/2005 9:51:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 7:48:24 PM EDT
What is the price you offer an a PVS 14 kit. If you have multiple kits, please price them here.

Thanks

Link Posted: 11/3/2005 8:09:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2005 8:54:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 7:36:31 AM EDT
hey vic- your right itt tubes are gonna go up from what i hear, looks like we will be diggin deaper in our pockets yet again-
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 7:23:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2005 8:54:33 AM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:25:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2005 3:29:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:
...it is a COMPROMISE. You do not get the best daytime performance nor the best night vision performance.


Grrrr.

Originally Posted By steven1513:
Is the AN/PVS-22 aka Universal Night Sight (or it's variants) available for civilian consumption?


Looks like I'm back to the UNS.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 1:27:01 PM EDT
Victor,
You mention and tout the qualities of the ~$7k Raptors and ~$4k D-7x0s. But I don't see the sense of changing scopes during a day/night or night/day deployment.

The ~$6k F7201/D-830 seems like a better deal since it is a 24 hour scope. Do you have anything negative to say about the F7201/D-830? Specifically, does adding the NV module change the eye relief and make it impractible?

From OpticsHQ:
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 5:04:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 2:34:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:35:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:01:01 AM EDT
jlford30,

+1 for Victor, I just bought a PVS-14D kit from him and it's everything and more!! You won't find a nicer guy and his service is 2nd to none. IMO he's one of the best to get NV equipment from... don't wait, prices on tubes are going up according to all my sources.

Good Luck,
Bill V.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 10:55:34 AM EDT
Thanks for the kind words Bill....Now for some big news...

It seems that the BIG Omni VII contract I talked about in a previous thread was DUALLY awarded to BOTH ITT AND Litton for approx. 3,3 BILLION!! Yikes!
www.fedvendor.com/contract_award/index.htm?fstype=3&fkeyword=NIght%20Vision
www.fedvendor.com/contract_award/view.htm?dataid=ADP11267527530006621&keyword=night|night|nighte?s?|vision|vision|visione?s­?&ftype=3

I thought this was a "winner take all" contract, but it looks as if Litton was given a BIG bone to stay afloat. They have had several contracts yanked from under their feet over the last several years, I wonder how long this will take?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:41:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:


too bad all those goggles will become museum pieces if their research works out.



Think "inexpensive SURPLUS" instead.



Gosh, I hope not!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:32:23 AM EDT
Gosh, I JUST found out ITT is raising their prices AGAIN!! It seems your average 14 or MUM could cost a 100 bones more or so very soon! You'd think these guys work for thr oil companies!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:20:25 AM EDT
hey vic-

your right, prices are going up! hold onto your seats boys- prices are gonna continue to rise
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:24:47 PM EDT
Where's a good place to buy and what should I be looking for?
Looking for a a/npvs-14 style monocle.

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:56:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jlford30:
Where's a good place to buy and what should I be looking for?
Looking for a a/npvs-14 style monocle.

Thanks



Email/IM sent to you.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:21:47 PM EDT
Good to hear.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:27:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:


too bad all those goggles will become museum pieces if their research works out.



Think "inexpensive SURPLUS" instead.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:36:47 PM EDT
It seems more Tubes ARE becoming available from ITT, BUT high performance/blem free tubes to selective dealers "HIGH on the food chain" is what I am hearing! More to come I'm sure.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:01:23 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:54:38 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:50:17 PM EDT
I heard from a friend yesterday who is a crystal growing engineer. He says that the NVG industry may be caught off guard anyways. He says that his company is working on a NV contract to develop a new seeding and growing process that will lead way to NV visors. The process allows for larger optic field of view and curvature of the display. The application is likely to be a wrap-around goggle from what he says. This will have a considerable advantage for aviation applications where a more 3-d view is needed.

too bad all those goggles will become museum pieces if their research works out.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:18:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 12:22:20 PM EDT by Victor]

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
I heard from a friend yesterday who is a crystal growing engineer. He says that the NVG industry may be caught off guard anyways. He says that his company is working on a NV contract to develop a new seeding and growing process that will lead way to NV visors. The process allows for larger optic field of view and curvature of the display. The application is likely to be a wrap-around goggle from what he says. This will have a considerable advantage for aviation applications where a more 3-d view is needed.

too bad all those goggles will become museum pieces if their research works out.



Interesting news and good news in this field due to using goggles for air vehicles causes visual preception errors. This phenomenon has caused countless mid-airs over the years. Wright-Patt has done various studies over the years looiking into various cockpit screens. www.hec.afrl.af.mil/Organization/HECV/hecvl9.asp

Thanks for the informative post.

Edited to add: Gotta love that screen name you have!! I wish I could shoot tabacky at a roach 10 fett away!
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 12:27:31 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:46:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By inkaybee:

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By steven1513:

Originally Posted By Victor:
...this WEAK spec criteria (specifically the photo response!) in terms of the tube.
<break>
•Signal to Noise Ratio: 25:1
• Photocathode Response: 1,800 µA/lm
•Halo: <1.0mm
• EBI: 2.5 x 10-11 phot
• Resolution: 64 lp/mm
• High Light Resolution: 36 lp/mm


Vic, what does a weak PR of 1800 uA/lm mean in real world performance?



Means the image would not be very bright, especially in a dark desert environment our boys are fighting in afganny. I guess in an urban environment, this Photo Response would be average. I normally see a PR in the 23 to 26 range in the units I have dealt with. I feel 18 is REALLY too low.



Though, about half the electrons are lost to the ion barrier. IF these are thin filmed or filmless ,1800 may be enough. I am no expert just guessing.



Hey Ink,

Probably won't be "filmless", usually cannot use a filmless with any type of recoil. I think the forces want to mount these.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 8:53:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By inkaybee:

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By steven1513:

Originally Posted By Victor:
...this WEAK spec criteria (specifically the photo response!) in terms of the tube.
<break>
•Signal to Noise Ratio: 25:1
• Photocathode Response: 1,800 µA/lm
•Halo: <1.0mm
• EBI: 2.5 x 10-11 phot
• Resolution: 64 lp/mm
• High Light Resolution: 36 lp/mm


Vic, what does a weak PR of 1800 uA/lm mean in real world performance?



Means the image would not be very bright, especially in a dark desert environment our boys are fighting in afganny. I guess in an urban environment, this Photo Response would be average. I normally see a PR in the 23 to 26 range in the units I have dealt with. I feel 18 is REALLY too low.



Though, about half the electrons are lost to the ion barrier. IF these are thin filmed or filmless ,1800 may be enough. I am no expert just guessing.



Hey Ink,

Probably won't be "filmless", usually cannot use a filmless with any type of recoil. I think the forces want to mount these.



Not arguing but I thought it was the thin film that gave out under recoil and that eliminating the film did away with the possibility of the film breaking? I don't know this for sure -- that's just what I thought I had read.
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