Since I don't live in FL (and this thread suddenly became a "Well, in Florida, blah, blah, blah" thread), this is the only useful thing I learned in this thread.  This is very interesting.  There's no stamp for amnesty registrations?  Do you still have a Form 4, or is there some other unique form?

During the 1968 amnesty, firearms were registered on Form 4467.

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3005

I'm curious to know what form his M2 is on also. He didn't say it was amnesty-registered, just pre-68 to LEO.
@dogrunner

I've got NFA firearms on Forms 5 & 1 with no stamps.

I shoot on private land and the few times I’ve taken my stuff to a public range no one has batted an eyelash

As far as Range Personnel and other non-LE asking, you're entitled to your opinion... but when it comes to LE asking... might want to slow down a minute and read the following with an open mind.

I don't think you understand how this legally works in FL.

SBR's are illegal in FL per se... if encountered by LE you will/might have to demonstrate you meet the exception listed in the law, depends if the officer gives a shit. If you don't understand that or refuse to accept that, I don't know what to say. Hopefully you only run into officers who don't know or care. There are plenty of dick heads in my line of work that would love to butt heads with a guy like you.

Two things are at play here: 1) the legal status of the SBR (is it registered IAW Fed law); and 2) the status of the person possessing the SBR (are they the owner, with the owner, on the trust, or with a person listed in the trust).

It's not as simple as you knowing your SBR is lawful therefore LE has no right or grounds to confront you for verification that your SBR, and you, meet the exception in the law. Your comment  "A citizen engaged in lawful “anything” is not subject to “show me your papers”." does not apply here. The mere fact you have possession of an SBR gives FL LE the lawful right to inquire to ascertain if you and the SBR meet the exception. Sorry if you don't like that but that's the reality.

We all know the owner can possess the SBR, a friend can possess the SBR when accompanied by the owner, a person listed in a trust can possess an SBR listed to the trust, or another person when accompanied by a person listed in the trust. So lets look closer at the two aspects at play here...

THE STATUS OF THE SBR ITSELF FOR STARTERS

1. By law, SBR's are illegal in FL per se.
2. SBR's becomes lawful BY EXCEPTION when lawfully registered IAW Federal law.
3. A Form 1 or Form 4 (Tax Stamp if you will) demonstrates meeting the "IAW with Federal law" exception.

So your statement about the tax stamp being of no use to anyone is not quite accurate, it's very helpful to LE. It is proof that the SBR meets the required exception as far as being registered IAW Fed law. A secondary function of the Form 1 or Form 4 will address the issue of who can be in possession of the SBR. So once again, your assertion that the Tax Stamp does not provide ownership is wrong as it will steer LE in the direction necessary to determine possession limitations. In your case, as in mine and others, it's a trust.

If it's an individual on the form(s), end of inquiry, if it's a Trust on the form(s), the right for further inquiry is justified to ascertain if the person in possession is on the trust or accompanied by a person listed in the trust.

THE STATUS OF THE PERSON IN POSSESSION

1. If the SBR is registered on a Form 1 or Form 4 to an individual, then that individual or anyone accompanied by the owner can possess the SBR. That can be easily determined in seconds. End of inquiry.
2. If the SBR is registered on a Form 1 or Form 4 to a trust, then LE can demand from the person in possession that they demonstrate that they are either on said trust or accompanied by someone listed on said trust.

So really it's a two-part process for LE to ascertain if an SBR meets the exception under the law... and LE can compel you to demonstrate you meet both aspects of SBR Status and Person In Possession Status or enforcement action can be taken, and if you "push back", you probably will get hooked up.

If you disagree or don't like what I posted, I don't what to say... but it's correct for where I work and I've been at it for 18 years here in FL. Again, tell other non-LEO to piss off if you want to, but I highly suggest you reconsider that approach and attitude concerning the extremely rare and highly unlikely chance you ever get confronted by LE.

A RSO asked me once, and I said let me see a copy of your technical qualifications and legal qualifications in your ability to read and understand a tax stamp.

He gave me a bunch of lip back blabbering about legality and liability, and I kindly stated that was fine but he needed to prove he has an ability to read and understand a tax stamp and show his legal requirement that I need to show him.  I also stated that before I handed anything over to him he would need to wash his hands as I didn't want my documents contaminated and also I came to shoot and not talk to an RSO.

He ended up running with his tail between his legs to some manager.  The manager came over to me and apologized and stated the RSO would be getting better training.

LE? No
Gun ranges? yes, all the time. They claim legal reasons but I think the guy behind the counter just wants a closer look at some awesome firearms.

The registration form is the old form #1.......revision of 11/66.   Signed by then Director Harold Serr..............................the IRS code during that time provided for tax free acquisition by a LEO WITH his CLEO's approval.

In my instance, I was considering a tax paid transfer and in researching the law discovered that provision............Took it to my Chief and he signed off........only issue I had with it was that the IRS (then ATTD) kept sending me the wrong paperwork................I finally called their offices and managed to get the proper form.........Amusingly, even with the screw up delay on their part it took less than a month to have a signed registration in hand.

Somebody else mention the 4467 amnesty forms..........I acquired a mint MP40 during that 30 day allowed period............did the paperwork on it and it took about five months for a turnaround, course the volume was high and I don't believe IRS (ATTD) had that many employees.

Nice!
Thanks for the info.

ATF still allows LE to register official-use NFA firearms tax-exempt, but currently if you want to register your own firearm you must F1 in the agency's name, then F5 to yourself.

Of course that doesn't work for post-86 MGs, unless the individual officer happens to hold a FFL/SOT as well (in which case it'd be quicker to F2 it).

I time I did have an older fudd comment “that I better have ALL the paperwork for that thing!”

I asked what thing?

He points to the can on my sbr, I played dumb and told him “it was just a .22, with a big hand guard, that’s what it’s so quite”

He ran off to the RO who I’ve chatted with about the suppressor’s because he’s in the market to get a few.

So he knows I have the stamps as I explained the process to him.

He was chuckling as the old timer stormed off.

Colorado is the same way and has been for decades.

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that, in most states where we say "NFA is legal," it would be more accurate to say "NFA is illegal under state law too BUT the legislature carved out an affirmative defense of compliance with BATFE rules."

For all that, in the fifteen years that I was the police, I had never asked anybody but a department member to show me his NFA paperwork. I felt that I was responsible for keeping the peace of the City of FUArock, CO, and BATFE was responsible for enforcing unconstitutional gun laws, and that we should stay out of each other's lanes. (When I put on my armorer hat, I insisted on seeing them for any personally-owned NFA item that a department member wanted to carry on duty. Yeah, I'm a bad person for that but I cringed at both the liability and the inevitable GD thread if one of my guys had a shooting with an SBS which he legally couldn't have even possessed.)

Anyway, I love picking fights with officious AH'es, be they range nazis or bureaucrats, as much as anyone, but I can only endorse the idea of "Make sure you know what the fight really is, before you start it."

Just as a point of interest, Arizona also has a law saying all NFA items are illegal, but possessing the NFA paperwork is an affirmative defense.  I suspect it’s common in quite a few states as a means of giving local cops power to ask to see papers.  I’ve never seen any cop here ask, but they could.

I got pulled over for speeding a couple months ago.  Cop asked for my license, registration and proof of insurance.  I didn’t tell the officer to pound sand and call Allstate for my insurance. Gave him my insurance card wasn’t a big deal.

Blows my mind how many blowhards here demanding not to do something simple for something many have never been asked to do!!!  No wonder a lot of gun owners are perceived by non gun people as stupid little wiener d bags.

Don’t you think if a cop takes the time and asks to see the paperwork for an ATF item he’s going to be satisfied with a “fuck off” response?  What if he asked for your concealed permit?  Same fuck off response?

Really?  You equate your insurance card with a Form 4?  Having someone ask to see what is absolutely a tax document is equivalent to seeing a piece of paper with your name and car VIN on it?

Are you one of those "why not let him search your car if you have nothing to hide" guys, too?  After all, if he says "I'd like to search your car," he might not be "satisfied with a 'fuck off' response," but sometimes that the right one.

One proves I’m driving legally with insurance and the other proves I own an NFA item legally. What do I give up by presenting the form?  Officer knowing my address?!?  Lol, they could get that from your license plates/tags..  Most attorneys would advise you to keep the form with your item.  You can say it’s only a “tax document” but without the tax document it makes me a felon in the eyes of a certain Leo.

Not sure what a tough guy attorney’s advice is for a tough guy like you, but I guess you’re used to being pulled over a lot in your monster truck and affliction shirts...  “driving while tough” a crime in NH?

Does saying "tough guy" a lot make you happier?  I'll bet the law in your state says "must show proof of insurance to LEO when stopped" or words to that effect.  Again, if you're state requires it, fine.  But if you have no right to see it, then you have no right to see it.  If you did, the law would say "show upon request to any LEO." It doesn't.

"...makes me a felon in the eyes of certain LEO." Not in my state, so it's "No," if they ask to see it.

Yes, calling you “tough guy” felt good to me and made me chuckle. That’s why I did it more than once,

Look I’m not arguing that it’s explicitly required by law... I’m arguing that it’s dumb not to present your paperwork when prompted by an LEO.  You give up nothing in doing so and likely avoid a hassle.

You know as well as I do that there are a ton of gun laws that aren’t written well, has zero case law/precedent and there are many situations that have not been tried or put into the “test case”.  Why even risk being wrongly arrested?  out of principle?  Who even knows if your refusal to prove it’s a legal NFA item gives them probable cause to search you?

I’m a FL resident and believe what bowhntr is accurate.

This TX attorney has an FAQ on it, carrying papers is not explicitly required by law in Texas:

https://www.myguntrust.com/what-documents-should-i-carry-with-my-nfa-firearm.html

The difference here is that New Hampshire doesn't appear to have a "Defense to Prosecution" type of law on their books regarding NFA firearms.

So if you are in NH there is nothing at the State level that I can find in their criminal statues that would put you at risk at the State level for an arrest just for possession of an NFA firearm.

I don't believe that the State of NH could legally prosecute you even if you possessed an unregistered machinegun as their legal statues are completely devoid of any reference to possession of NFA firearms.  That said,  I presume that a dedicated City or State Law Enforcement officer in NH could potentially confiscate your federally illegal firearms and turn it over to the BATFE for investigation if push comes to shove.  However,  nothing would legally happen at the State level as an unregistered machinegun would be technically legal according to the State of NH.

However, this is in direct opposition to most states like Florida, Texas, Colorado, etc. that do have State laws stating that the mere possession of an NFA firearms as illegal.... unless you as the possessor can prove you meet one of the legal exemptions.

Obviously when and how you decide to provide evidence of compliance of the State legal requirement(s) to the inquiring local law enforcement officer is up to you.... either on the side of the road or after spending the night or weekend in jail.

Unfortunately, a felony weapon arrest (even if there is no conviction) is going to show up on most  background checks and will impact your employment opportunities down the road as many employers now-a-days look at both conviction and arrest history.

So for most folks who take a ride for a felony arrest (especially a weapons related arrest),  it makes financial sense to hire a lawyer to expunge the arrest record which is usually a couple grand in cost.  In this case more than likely you will just pay the lawyer who you already hired (to deal with getting the criminal charge dismissed and to get your confiscated guns back) another couple thousand bucks to get the arrest record expunged as part of the legal cleanup process.

Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer as to how to deal with inquisitive local law enforcement.

Depending upon how your local laws are written regarding NFA firearm possession, the amount of free time and disposable income you have, your personal aversion level to spending time in confinement, whether you care if your firearms are confiscated for some undetermined period of time,  whether a felony arrest record is going to be a significant issue for your future professional career, etc...... its ultimately up to you to either start quoting portions of the 2nd amendment to the local Barney Fife as your roadside legal defense strategy or acquiesce to his request for paperwork to confirm compliance with local law(s).

For me personally I have been engaged with local LE twice in the past 20ish years and walked away both times because I produced a F1/F4 to provide evidence of compliance with Texas law.  I also always have a binder full of paperwork I take with me when shooting in case it ever happens again.

I had the exact same thing happen. I realized when I showed him what I had, I only brought SBR paperwork not machine gun. He didn't notice.
It seemed easier than explaining they don't have the authority to make me show it.

As long as the officer is respectful and you have nothing to hide, just show them damn form. 50/50 shot that they know what they are looking at. Plus, it’s awesome seeing the rookies get antsy and their FTO is laughing quietly in the background while winking at you for the good laugh.

I was involved in a car accident last year after leaving the range. After telling the SO/FHP that I had MANY firearms in the trunk, their eyes widened up a bit. Needless to say, the FHP and the St. Johns County sheriffs office only asked if I had the proper paperwork for each suppressor and SBR in my trunk. I said yes and they proceeded to finish processing the scene. The car was totaled and I needed a ride on the ambulance. They didn’t want to do the paperwork needed to take custody of my “arsenal”. What was funny was the looks of all the rubber-necks was when my wife pulled up to unload the totaled car. 8-9 ammo cans, 10 rifles/SBR’s, handful of cans, 6-7 pistols...1 thing I learned that day is that I needed to buy more cases ??

i goto one particular range and same range when i got my supressor and i never have been asked. They only do their look over check when you actually sign into the range. Meaning they just glance to see what you have mainly to check your ammo i guess.

I do have copies folded up and inserted in the pistol grip for the 3 sbrs i have and for the supressor theres  a copy in the mpx sbr's pistol grip its usually living on.

Twice.  First time was at SeaTac airport.  I got called back to ticketing after the TSA guy x-rayed my case and saw what he thought were silencers.  He had already inspected the gun case after I unlocked it; the cans were right on top.  By the time I got back to ticketing he had picked the locks, airport police and airport security already there.  I gave them my retired military ID when they asked for identification.  Asked if I was on duty, a gunsmith, dealer etc.  Said no, but I do have registration forms.   I handed them to TSA who passed them around to the others.  They obviously did not have any idea what they were looking at, but the security guard nodded and they all visibly relaxed.  They wrote down my WA driver's license number and the serial numbers of two bolt guns.  They didn't want info on the semi's or cans.

Bring extra locks, TSA will cut them if they can't pick them.  I wrote to TSA a few times to get answers to their strange behavior.

2nd time I was accused by a local range officer of violating federal law by not having copies of my forms with me at the range; I normally bring them.  He flouted his authority as a former police officer while I was only a shipyard worker.  I spoke up at the next club meeting and was told by the president that it was not the club's job to enforce federal law.  I also waved around a hard copy of the law that does not require that copies be kept, just that any ATF agent can demand to see the original.  The offending person quit serving as range safety officer.  :)

The only time anyone has questioned legality of my SBRs or cans was at a steel match when I was shooting mp5. The RO asked if that was a stock on my pistol? I said no, that's a stock on my rifle. RO asked if that was legal? I said it was with the right paperwork. If I remember correctly I finished 1st in PCC that day, good times

Have had the local popo come out several times when we were shooting. Some are real cool and want to shoot with us and others are jackasses and act like we are terrorists and check stamps, cars, etc.

There is nothing I can do to stop them from looking so I cooperate so I can go home to see my family.

It is not fun to come off a dirt road and see 2 red faced cops with their guns out waiting on you.