@coltshorty14

What kind of report?

Just a list of recent approvals?

I think that's what she meant. Not approved forms, but background check results from the FBI. They must send the info to atf in batches.

Do you request to speak to an Examiner?

Yes, I just asked for my examiner.

... this is the best place for me to come clean about my NFA, Form 4 failure, (I have four other NFA approved stamps too), yes, I'm way disappointed - but I hope others can learn from my debacle. Back in 1992 my wife at the time went off on wild drug fueled "binges" whilst I was was still working for the company I retired later in 2017. We got into a verbal a fight in that time frame. Cops were called. I was arrested for DM even though she was the one out of control. Charges were subsequently dropped, case dismissed.

25 years later, post 41P, I apply for a transfer of an M16. Get denied by FBI for, "inconclusive BGC". Local court has since expunged all records of incident. FBI cannot confirm or deny outcome.

I'm in an NICS Purgatory. Cannot get past go. I'm FUCKED.  Even though I have a clean AZ State CCW and NO RECORD AT ALL since

It's OK, I really don't care enough to get my blood pressure up over it. I'll sell the M16 through another friend and make a profit. Just wanted to let you know

To the BATFE credit, they say that they haven't come across a case like this and there's no precedence , they only make the call on the FBI dispo

Not looking for sympathy, just warning those that might be in similar situations

Ugh, just spoke with my examiner - my dec form 4 that's in pending FBI is there because my NICS in June had a "delay".

He says the FBI isn't even processing delays in a timely manner and last he heard they were looking into delays from March.

This is pretty fucked up imo. First, theres federal law saying that without word from NICS in x days they have to allow the transfer. That clearly isn't happening. Second there is no way for the person to clear it up.

How has an attorney for the firearm community not taken this up? The blatant disregard for the law and  bureaucracy of this whole thing is completely absurd.

@NoloContendere

Okay… but that isn't really relevant to this thread. There's clearly a bug that happened that caused people without cause to get delayed and the delays aren't getting processed. That has nothing to do with your case.

Disregard. I can't read.

The federal law (Brady Law) you reference only applies to standard gun purchases … it explicitly does not apply to NFA items. That's been covered.

In terms of why nobody has taken it up, I believe it's because the issue just isn't big enough or well known enough. NFA is already an inanely small percentage of the gun industry and the people being affected by it is a small subset of that.

I reached out to the president of the NFAFA on Facebook about a month ago and he said it was the first he had even heard of it. He said he'd poke around but that the agencies are hard to deal with and get info. I'm guessing he hasn't thought about it since. To me this is the most disappointing part because this is literally the mission statement of the NFAFA to take care of crap like this and they seem to be too caught up with bump stocks still. They're like a year behind on current issues lol.

I also reached out to Tim of Military Arms Channel, a pretty well known YouTuber who has dealt with a lot of NICS garbage in the past. He just got back to me a few days ago and asked for some evidence. I'll send him this thread and a few Facebook threads but unfortunately the information and the issue isn't all consolidated into one easy place to look up and posts like Winston_Wolf's up above just muddy the waters.

I think if we want to make any headway on this thing we're going to need to start compiling some sort of data with a spreadsheet where we list this stuff out and keep track of it. There's still a lot of questions that haven't been answered here that could be if we got together some data. I currently have 8 cans stuck in this mess so it's a huge bummer. I've also been trying to reach my examiner (Jesse Huff) since pbjunkiee's experience and haven't been able to get ahold of him.

@revottuneda4  ever hear back from Carol Ripley?

I called again this afternoon and asked for her directly. Got her voicemail and left a message.

Ill call again tomorrow. Monday too.

I know there are people saying that we shouldn't call because it slows them down. Well, f-that. They haven't been held up in a bogus BGC for 6 months like I have.

I wonder if an email to the NFA Branch director, and CCing in the NICS director, congressman, and a few NFA legal orgs is in order here...

I'm aware it (Brady) doesn't apply to NFA items. (ETA: just read a bunch of laws, apparently it does in a way - "firearm" definition includes silencers. It doesn't state however that the ATF must do this)

As a matter of fact theres NO legal requirement requiring background checks for NFA items. It's all "internal rules or policies". The 34 NFA law only requires prints, a photo, an application and the tax payment. That's it.

The only time any other law applies for a BGC is if a firearm is being transferred, and that's at the dealers end.

My problem is this whole thing is out of control. Federal law regarding NFA items is not being followed. Rights are essentially being denied with a clear goal of making it so burdensome that people just give up. Its astounding.

ETA: If you want a common place, a google spreadsheet you track it all. Put in initials, masked out control number, examiners, and dates.

I called again today for shit and giggles since my examiner said it should get approved this week. My status has went from waiting for BGC, to "processing". Anyone know what processing means?

Now that you mentioned it, when I called today I think the guy said "processing" too instead of the normal "just waiting on the fbi background check."

I was too pissed to take in exactly what he said, and immediately asked him to connect me to my examiner.

I completely mirror your frustration on the rights being denied part. I think we're all in the same boat it's just that nobody has any clue what can be done about it that'd *actually* work and get these processed.

We're only on this earth for 80 or so years and the fact that we have to spend 1 of those waiting on permission to own a stupid pipe with washers in it is absurd. But these agencies have made it such a black hole that there's really nothing us pawns can do … and all the people in power that claim to care about this stuff are either ignorant of it or just don't.

No reply from her. I want to call, but I’m holding back. I at least figure itsbon their radar now. I was calling once a week because I was pissed but I’m toning it down.

I think it means the same thing honestly. I talked to a guy once instead of the usual Melissa/whatever other lady you usually get and he just told me processing instead of pending bgc

I'm going in the opposite direction as you.

I'm growing exceedingly more impatient by the day.

@TinyCrumb

Have you got a pro-gun congresscritter available? In your shoes, I might think about calling him.

No doubt in my mind that you're right.

Unfortunately I live in a pretty liberal state. Out of our 5 reps and 2 senators only 1 rep is a republican and he's recently been talking about how he'd like to see tighter gun control and age limits raised. So I haven't had a lot of faith in that avenue.

If someone had those email addresses, I'd do it since I'm stuck in this hole as well.

I called yesterday for my bi-monthly check-up and talk to a guy who seemed a little agitated and was very "short" with me and also got the response it was "processing"  I also asked for my date it went into "processing" and he could not give me that information

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Well my examiner emailed me this morning that she contacted the fbi and that they are "working on it".
Said she would let me know as soon as she hears from them.

Well I guess I should be happy that my form is not lost, at least.

Day 338 of pending, and still counting.

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Nice that you at least heard back from her. Since we first heard about junkie's success I've been calling semi-daily and leaving voicemails occasionally for my examiner and haven't heard back. I've been weary about leaving too many voicemails so I've only left a few.

I'm not quite is in bad of shape as you though, all mine are only roughly at 300 days pending.

The answer of the FBI "working on it" is of course B.S.. Can pretty much guarantee that's just a generic response she got back from them and passed it on to you.

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@NoloContendere

Where do I sign up?

That's literally not what I was implying at all - It's clear that we the lowly people cannot do anything about this. Hence asking why attorneys for the firearm community had not taken it up and pressed the gov hard on it. Also, no disrespect to you, but filing a complaint on behalf of a number of plaintiffs does not solve the issue for the rest of us. You know as well as I that the gov will just remedy their situations and then nothing else will come of it. Is it a good thing? YES, does it solve the overall problem? Not from my point of view, but I could be wrong obviously, and I'm willing to admit that.

Also your amended complaint has one delay issue in it, and its for a firearm purchase. That plaintiff also was allowed the transfer after five days and an ATF agent investigated and found no issue. My specific delay issue is that the NFA branch received a "delay" in my NICS check for an NFA application almost 2 months ago and both the NFA branch and the FBI have done nothing about this. The ATF won't process my Form 4 application without the "proceed" / review by the FBI on my "delay", and the FBI won't process "delays" for the ATF in a timely manner. As you know this is directly against 28 CFR 25.6(c)(1)(iv)(B):

I've called, spoken in detail with my examiner, tried to speak with the FBI (whom you know will not discuss anything over the phone), and am formulating an email to the head of the NFA branch, NICS section chief (who I'm still trying to research - latest info I have is a Kimberly J. Del Greco), as well as my congressman, and whoever else might need to know. Yeah, its probably gonna piss off a few people, maybe I'll get another document in my FBI file, but a FOIA request about it next year and the ensuing communications would be quite interesting and telling, if not helpful for future cases.

So before you get a little salty, please try to understand it from my (our) point of view. Some of us ARE trying to do some legwork. We're doing this in an environment intentionally devoid of any information to help us. Some of the things we do, and the communications we get could help one another or you in your cases. We're all in this together, equally getting fucked and deprived of our Second Amendment rights. It needs to be attacked from all angles and we need to be relentless until the agencies in question get the point and do what they are bound by law to do.

That particular regulation in the CFR does not apply to the transfer of NFA regulated firearms. Your answer to this is found in 26 USC 5812 (a) at the bottom of the paragraph;
"(a) Application
A firearm shall not be transferred unless (1) the transferor of the firearm has filed with the Secretary a written application, in duplicate, for the transfer and registration of the firearm to the transferee on the application form pre- scribed by the Secretary; (2) any tax payable on the transfer is paid as evidenced by the proper stamp affixed to the original application form; (3) the transferee is identified in the application form in such manner as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe, except that, if such person is an individual, the identification must include his fingerprints and his photograph; (4) the transferor of the firearm is identified in the ap- plication form in such manner as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe; (5) the firearm is identified in the application form in such man- ner as the Secretary may by regulations pre- scribe; and (6) the application form shows that the Secretary has approved the transfer and the registration of the firearm to the transferee. Applications shall be denied if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of law."

ATF uses a NICS check for the NFA transfers. The law regarding NICS checks specifically says the transfer can occur after three days of being in a "delay" status. Therefore the CFR on NICS checks absolutely applies to the transfer of NFA items as the ATF uses that system to determine approval or denial of forms.

A delay does not mean anyone is in violation of law - it means the FBI can't / hasn't verified everything, and that the person is not specifically prohibited from the transfer, therefore if the FBI finds nothing and takes no action the transfer can proceed according to law.

A denial, and subsequent transfer would mean a violation of the law. I'm not discussing flat out denials here, they're distinctly different from delays.

You are absolutely correct and I hope you accept my apologies. I opened my mouth before reading deeper, and the definitions for NFA regulated firearms are included in 18 USC 922, which is where 28 CFR 25 draws its authority from. As I were. That makes my 250 days since pending status hurt even more.

No problems - but any chance you spoke with your examiner? All you have to do is call up and ask them, and if they say pending background, press them for more info.

They can tell you when you were sent over for a NICS check and what the initial response from NICS was. I'm betting it's  "delayed" as well.

I have, and yes it’s pending BGC due to a delayed NICS response. Multiple Form 4s mailed Nov 2, all checks cashed Nov 20th (my birthday, coincidentally) and pending BGC since at least Apr 27.

So basically the release of an NFA item is at the discretion of the ATF if the FBI hasn't responded after 3 business days.

Makes sense. I know PSA's delay policy is that they will not turn over a weapon no matter how long the delay is. I don't agree with it, but it is their company.

I don't understand how a government agency can take it upon themselves to make it their policy though.

Just a guess here, but because USC says they need a determination, and delay is not a determination, but a delay of longer than three days is, but it’s not and no bureaucrat is going to put their neck on the line without a clear yes or no. So while it might not be official policy, it is officially policy.

The more I think about this, the more egregious it is. By law, any permit holder in a state that is on the Permanent Brady Permit Chart should be exempted from the get go.

Permit Chart

Holy hell.

Good find.

@NoloContendere

No skin in the game on this one but I thought of you as soon as I read his situation and thought you might be able to fix that problem.

I'm seriously considering forwarding that link to my examiner.

The female call center employees have always been polite and nice to speak with. The male employees not so much. He was always agitated and he would just say "processing" unless pushed further.  He always got mad when I asked to be transferred to my examiner.