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Posted: 11/9/2005 10:57:20 AM EDT
I'm looking to silence my 11.5 SBR I'll most likely be leaving the can on this gun. So I'm not to concerned about quick detachment. I'm currently looking at the AAC Ranger and the Gemtech Piranha. Any comments or sugguesstions about either of these models? Is their a better model out there that I'm missing in the same price range? Is it easier to do the purchase through a local (given the hardest part will be the BATF wait) dealer rather than shopping here on the EE?
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 11:08:26 AM EDT
I have the M4-02, and it does its job fine (keep you from going deaf). On my 11.5", it's shorter than a 16" bbl with an A2 FH. If you can get a good price from a local dealer, I would do that. No sense wasting time with an extra dealer->dealer transfer. I don't have any experience with the Ranger.
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 6:51:11 PM EDT
I have 3 AAC cans and the Ranger is one of them. While I originaly bought the can for full auto .22's, I have tried it on an AR w/ 16.5 inch barrel and it works well at bringing the noise down below the pain threshold. I have not tried it with any subsonic .223 though. No experience with Gemtech. I believe the ranger has the same baffle stack as the M4-2000 so you may be able to check the reviews and opinions of others that own that can. There seems to be more owners of the M4-2000 than the Ranger.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 9:41:10 PM EDT
I would get an M4-2000 but iff you are asking just about the M4-02 vs the Ranger -- they are about equal. Also consider the SWR Wolverine which is the same idea and very good.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:35:49 AM EDT
Given your two options I would go with Gemtech.

With an item like this, customer service is essential, and AAC has been voted as a company to use caution when dealing with arizonashooting.com/firearms/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5257
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:50:34 AM EDT
Oh please. At this point I have delt with AAC a lot. Kevin, the owner of AAC, is THE MOST generous person I have ever met in my entire life. I am very serious when I say that.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 6:33:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 3:45:06 PM EDT
I love my Gemtech cans, no experience with AAC.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:37:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hamptonyellowdog:
I'm looking to silence my 11.5 SBR I'll most likely be leaving the can on this gun. So I'm not to concerned about quick detachment. I'm currently looking at the AAC Ranger and the Gemtech Piranha. Any comments or sugguesstions about either of these models? Is their a better model out there that I'm missing in the same price range? Is it easier to do the purchase through a local (given the hardest part will be the BATF wait) dealer rather than shopping here on the EE?



Gemtech has been in business longer, has a better reputation, has excellent customer service, etc...

Buy from Gemtech and you won't regret it.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:39:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Oh please. At this point I have delt with AAC a lot. Kevin, the owner of AAC, is THE MOST generous person I have ever met in my entire life. I am very serious when I say that.



That wouldn't have anything to do with...... aw, fuck it. Not worth it.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 6:13:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Oh please. At this point I have delt with AAC a lot. Kevin, the owner of AAC, is THE MOST generous person I have ever met in my entire life. I am very serious when I say that.



That wouldn't have anything to do with...... aw, fuck it. Not worth it.



Link Posted: 11/23/2005 6:18:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Oh please. At this point I have delt with AAC a lot. Kevin, the owner of AAC, is THE MOST generous person I have ever met in my entire life. I am very serious when I say that.



That wouldn't have anything to do with...... aw, fuck it. Not worth it.






Link Posted: 11/23/2005 6:34:47 PM EDT
I don't get it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:55:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I don't get it.


I believe the implication is that you're shilling for AAC.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 4:00:17 AM EDT
Either one will be good.

I have a SWR Warlock, I REALLY LIKE IT...
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 4:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I don't get it.


I believe the implication is that you're shilling for AAC.



I see. Well that is not the case. All I did to earn that was say how good the Evo-9 was and stand by my tests that another can -- claimed to be as quiet, was actually a lot (6-10db) louder. The supporters of the other can fought my contention and then the next I know it, I was accused of being a shill because I said the best can was the best. Strange because everything I said was demonstrably true.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 4:51:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:51:39 PM EDT
Hold your money before you are on hold for an AAC can... Gemtech may have some new designs out.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:15:08 PM EDT
Gemtech has an ad out which shows three new cans. AAC is also coming out with new cans before the Shot Show.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:26:59 PM EDT
AWC <- great cans.

No experience with gemtech but the .223 cans from AWC are waaay quiet.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:51:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Gemtech has an ad out which shows three new cans. AAC is also coming out with new cans before the Shot Show.



Any details on the new AAC cans yet??
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:56:50 AM EDT
I know of some new cans but I don't know which will be available to anyone vs. SOCOM only. Cans that AAC developed for the SCAR rifles come to mind. Pretty sure they will be sold to anyone in a few months. Also I was told that the R&D that came out of that will be added into the M4-2000 internals and in some cases already has. The latest M4-2000, for example, is down to 19 ounces. As light as the SureFire can is, I am not sure it is any lighter once you factor in the flash hider weight.

I did the math, and Titanium is about 60% the weight of steel. If AAC made the M4-2000 out of Ti, it would be around 11 ounces. If they sold that for less than the price of a Surefire, well, it would be delicious. Unfortunately the price of Titanium is much higher than even a few years ago.

I asked AAC to develop some kind of published upgrade policy so anyone could always have the latest version without new paperwork.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 9:32:21 AM EDT
GemTech!
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 9:37:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 11:01:14 AM EDT
It sound tests fine. It mounts well. A solid buy if you want that kind of thing instead of a dedicated flash hider.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 8:27:00 PM EDT
And another Gem-Tech fan pipes up.
And so far they are running 2 for 2.
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 4:02:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I know of some new cans but I don't know which will be available to anyone vs. SOCOM only. Cans that AAC developed for the SCAR rifles come to mind. Pretty sure they will be sold to anyone in a few months. Also I was told that the R&D that came out of that will be added into the M4-2000 internals and in some cases already has. The latest M4-2000, for example, is down to 19 ounces. As light as the SureFire can is, I am not sure it is any lighter once you factor in the flash hider weight.

I did the math, and Titanium is about 60% the weight of steel. If AAC made the M4-2000 out of Ti, it would be around 11 ounces. If they sold that for less than the price of a Surefire, well, it would be delicious. Unfortunately the price of Titanium is much higher than even a few years ago.

I asked AAC to develop some kind of published upgrade policy so anyone could always have the latest version without new paperwork.



Mr. Silvers,

What is the likelihood that AAC will indeed manufacture an M4-2000 variant (or any other suppressor, for that matter) from Ti? What would the cost increase be vs. an ordinary suppressor?

Also, what is your experience with the carbon fiber suppressors?

Thanks.

Justin
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 4:17:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2005 4:18:04 PM EDT by rsilvers]
I think it is very likely AAC will make a 5.56mm can from Ti in the near future as I have seen some of their Ti prototypes, so they have gone through the process with it already and know how to do it well. I don't know if it will be an M4-2000 or another design as they developed some new designs for the SCAR rifle that might trickle down. As for price -- I am not sure, but since SureFires are selling for $1200, it would not surprise me if it was in that price range. It should be an easy sell for someone who was about to spend $1200 on a Surefire to instead put that money towards a quieter and lighter can with a better mount.

I don't like carbon fiber because you can't clean it in solvents.
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 5:14:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I think it is very likely AAC will make a 5.56mm can from Ti in the near future as I have seen some of their Ti prototypes, so they have gone through the process with it already and know how to do it well. I don't know if it will be an M4-2000 or another design as they developed some new designs for the SCAR rifle that might trickle down. As for price -- I am not sure, but since SureFires are selling for $1200, it would not surprise me if it was in that price range. It should be an easy sell for someone who was about to spend $1200 on a Surefire to instead put that money towards a quieter and lighter can with a better mount.

I don't like carbon fiber because you can't clean it in solvents.



I thought Ti doesn't dissipate heat as well as other common materials, no?
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 7:36:15 PM EDT
It does not transfer heat well. And I used to care. But I decided to shop caring about theoretical differences and start caring about actual differences. I thought "If heat transfer is low, it might be louder because it can't rob the propellent gasses of energy."

Well, if it is quiet, that is what matters, not robbing gasses.

Link Posted: 12/3/2005 8:24:04 PM EDT
Saw Gemtec at the SAR show, great guys!
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 6:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
It does not transfer heat well. And I used to care. But I decided to shop caring about theoretical differences and start caring about actual differences. I thought "If heat transfer is low, it might be louder because it can't rob the propellent gasses of energy."

Well, if it is quiet, that is what matters, not robbing gasses.




But it still would not be a QD suppressor (at least in theory), no?
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 7:20:40 AM EDT
Yes, certainly.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:45:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 4:47:05 PM EDT by edwin247]

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I know of some new cans but I don't know which will be available to anyone vs. SOCOM only. Cans that AAC developed for the SCAR rifles come to mind. Pretty sure they will be sold to anyone in a few months. Also I was told that the R&D that came out of that will be added into the M4-2000 internals and in some cases already has. The latest M4-2000, for example, is down to 19 ounces. As light as the SureFire can is, I am not sure it is any lighter once you factor in the flash hider weight.

I did the math, and Titanium is about 60% the weight of steel. If AAC made the M4-2000 out of Ti, it would be around 11 ounces. If they sold that for less than the price of a Surefire, well, it would be delicious. Unfortunately the price of Titanium is much higher than even a few years ago.

I asked AAC to develop some kind of published upgrade policy so anyone could always have the latest version without new paperwork.



I know Ti is pretty expensive, but isn't inconel expensive too??? Well at least compared to Stainless.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:09:03 AM EDT
I am reading all I can about .223 cans since I want one for my SBR just as the threads author does

I tis still difficult to pinpoint the "best" choice.

I realize Gemtech is a big name option and make great products, but when I read the AAC rates at 32db and the Gemtech @ 35, its tough to whip out for the higher db rated can

In short, what is the consensus, or is it a Colt-Bushmaster, Ford-Chevy thing?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:16:13 AM EDT


Even in Ford vs Chevy there is no contest that a Corvette is better than a Mustang. For trucks it is more of a personal preference. But there are clear winners with some sileners and some cars.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:22:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:

Even in Ford vs Chevy there is no contest that a Corvette is better than a Mustang. For trucks it is more of a personal preference. But there are clear winners with some sileners and some cars.




Oh, that clears it up!

Being the 'can-man', if you were to have one for an 11.5 or 10.5", which would it be?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:32:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 2:33:48 PM EDT by rsilvers]
The M4-2000 is the best 5.56mm can for most uses. I would get that. The alternativeis to get a compact thread on like an M4-02, Ranger, or Wolverine and leave it on. The downside is that you would really need to Nordlock it on so it does not shoot loose, and then it is too hard to remove to clean it. If you don't remove it, your threads will rust as water forms in a can from combustion. Fast-detatch cans won't shoot loose.

I have learned the a fast-detatch can is really the way to go. If you look at them all, the M4-2000 has the best mount, and the Surefire has the second-best mount, and the KAC has the third best mount. The M4-2000 is 1/2 the price and quieter and less than 2 ounces heavier.

Look at the poll and see what others think http://www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1418
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:56:26 AM EDT
I own a Gemtech M4-96D which has been great, from my perspective. I may also purchase some AAC products in the future. They're both top tier manufacturers, and frankly, I'm just happy that the suppressor industry is so vibrant and competitive. It helps keep prices down and drives innovation.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:08:10 AM EDT
The way to really get prices down would be to ditch the regulation. If there was no paperwork, the prices would instantly be cut in half and then go down further over time.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:05:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 9:07:38 AM EDT by KogaShuko]
Why arnt they considering carbon fiber. I know there was a few issues with the only carbon fiber can early on but it sounds like a better choice than titanium. They can also aford to screw around with it in the R&D phase since the stuff costs very little once you are setup for it. Seems to me that the baffels would fault way before the outside of the can. Or at least that is what I saw, haha.

____________________________________________________________
petition for more 5.7 ammo choices.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:17:30 PM EDT
Why isn't who considering carbon fiber?

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:43:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 1:44:29 PM EDT by fizassist]

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
The way to really get prices down would be to ditch the regulation. If there was no paperwork, the prices would instantly be cut in half and then go down further over time.



Yep, and it would probably bring forward a bunch of novel designs.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:52:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 4:53:17 AM EDT by Slug-O]
OK im going outside the box and going SRT Hurricane. Got one on my 11.5 and very happy with it.Yes I DO have a gass buster handle.... Would not leave home without it!!!


Slug-O
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:31:48 AM EDT
That is a fine looking rifle. Do you like the AIMPOINT magnijobby?
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