So I have a Savage No4 Mk1* with the late war 300/600 sight. I went to the range today and could not hit the target at 200 yards with a 6 o'clock hold except for once out of 20 single fired rounds. Out of these I tried moving my hold up and down to no success.

When I moved it into 100 yards, I finally found I hold to hold on the bottom horizonal piece of wood frame to get the shots in the photo. Thats about 1.5-2 ft above point of aim at 100 yards using the 300m sight. This seems excessive. Was using S&B factory ammo FMJ 180gr. I'm not sure if I should have my gunsmith look at it. I also have an early war sight with battle zero at 200m with adjustable sights as well. I was able to make these 200 yard shots with my M1A.


Thanks guys.

Box of 50 pistol cartridges there for reference.




The toys that day:




Saved this little guy on the way in:

Needs a taller post. About an 1/8" taller by my mental math.

I'd like to know if this is normal before I start swapping sights. Its all original as far as I know so

Nothing is likely wrong with your rifle as zeroed from factory.

Shooting a 25 meter away target will also be your zero at 300 meters. Trying to shoot at 100 and 200 yards with a 300 meter battle sight WILL be off.


Modern ranges in the US have their targets set up in yards.

Surplus rifle sights are usually in meters.


You need to convert your hold from meters to yards to see where you need to aim. Unless you plan on doing competition shooting and need it perfect for a modern range, I would not mess with the sights.

That being said, look up how to factory zero for an Enfield. If it's actually off, and not just you, then adjust as needed.


Try doing some shooting with a 1903 Springfield. The battle sight zero (sight flipped down) is 547 yards. You HAVE to use the ladder to shoot those at shorter ranges.

Brit surplus rifles are in YARDS.  Not meters.

When I shoot my #4 with the 300/600 site, I have to hold at the bottom of the frame for a 100 yard target.  Here's a picture of my target - 100 yards, with an aim point that was well below.  Using 300 yard peep.  This was also rested on the range block.

SavEnfTarget by depercy, on Flickr

If you're still having issues, I recommend getting/borrowing something like a lead sled or similar shooting rest so you can remove as many issues as possible.  Then you can determine if the rifle has issues or not.

Thanks guys for the confirmation. I was using a rest as well. I could not for the life of me find where to hold on the 200 yard target. Its really hard to hit stuff with this rifle. Do you think it's worth having my gunsmith swap the flip sight for an early wall sight? I believe the minimum on that is 200 yards.

There are a few companies who sell enfield sight in different heights.


I had to do this with the few that I gave to get them to zero. It takes time, and a file to get it perfect.

Changing out the rear sight on an No 4 Enfield is very easy.  No gunsmith needed.  

You might also change ammo.  I've been using PRVI and found it to be pretty good. 174 grain FMJ.

I believe thats what I've been using. I'll play with it a bit more than maybe swap out the sight for an early war one I've had laying around

Unless you reload. An M2 bullet propelled by 13gr Red Dot at ~1550fps ought to be spot on at 100yds.

A 300yd zero should impact about 6-7" high at 100yds with a 174gr FMJBT at 2400fps, according to JBM Ballistics.

A cast 314299 Lyman over sr4759 shoots to the sights well.  I like playing with my milsurps with cast.  Light loads are a joy to shoot.

They are indeed a joy. They're also recommended for short-range deer loads. I've gotten several people hooked on the 4759 load. It's a shame they stopped making it.

I have an Enfield #4 Long Branch 1944 that has been  rearsenal. When I bought it 5 or so years ago it tried some Prvi 180 gr. Had 1 foot size 10 shot groups at 100 yds. Tried the Prvi 150 gr., groups now like 3-4 inches. I buy all of it I can find when I see it.

I would try a different bullet grain and see how it works.

Ill try to mess with bullet weight and see what happens. I don't have a lot of options... gonna have to buy online.

Still have a bunch of wolf that keyholes. Wasnt military spec in the 160s or 70s?

IIRC, when I was shooting my Savage with a flip sight I had to aim at the bottom of the sheet to get it in the black. What I would recommend is to remove the flip sight and put it in a baggie, then buy a ladder sight to replace it for shooting.

I have a couple No4's. I mostly shoot my BSA and leave the Savage in the safe.

Yes try some ppu. My no4 likes the 150gr loads
Getting a milled ladder sight from Liberty Tree Collectors is the way to go.
I did, the sight is really nice.

My Savage Enfield's stock was so full of dried African mud that it warped my barrel and I was a foot left at 25 yards.

Pretty normal esp with the 300/600 flip, sights are meant to shoot high so the front sight doesn't totally obscure the target ( Person ). Most Mil BITD doctrine was to hold at feet or belt line.

Hold lower, Get a taller front sight, try different ammo .

I just de Bubba'd a long branch.   It came with a milled adjustable sight.   With sierra 150 grain pro hunters its less than 2 moa at 100.  Not bad for something that needed new wood all around.  I got real lucky finding a used set from a great guy on falfiles.  Free!  

OP check out your front sight.  There is an off chance I can send you a front sight.  I have two British front sights marked zero. They ran from -30 to +75.  About six or seven heights made.     When I did my recent de Bubba I bought a three pack of sights from Apex that were supposed to be varied heights but they jack wagons sent me three of the same height.   They are nice folks but don't seem to get things right half the time.  

Anyways if you have a negative marked sight I can get you a little closer.   For really knowledgeable Enfield part suppliers Springfield Sporters is very good.  They have premium prices but they deliver.

ETA I recently read an post I stumbled across while searching for No4mk1 sight info.   A Brit poster explained what a convoluted system they went through on sight zeroing.  After ww2 during refurbishment many rifles couldn't be zeroed with the then available sight heights.  One unauthorized move was to use the taller sight from a Sten IIRC.   Since that was unauthorized they made up new sight bases with different heights so They could be zeroed with the standard height sights.  (A silly endeavor when making sights was much cheaper).  

You might heck your sight base for markings.  I think 2 marked were in that later base


http://forums.gunboards.com/#/topics/178189


l found what read.  Skip my comments and read the link.

With my Savage, I have to put the front post all the way at the bottom of the peep aperture to hit at 100 yards.

As has been said, that is normal with the flip sight. Pick up a ladder sight and adjust 'til your mojo is right. Easy to install and easily returned to original condition.

Sorry I've been off this. Its been crazy and I've bought some new toys to play with so the No4 hasnt seen a lot of love.

I bought an early way ladder sight a long time ago and will probably get around to installing it this winter at some point. Not sure how to do it, hopefully I can do it without breaking something.

As I recall, its adjustable 300 and up with a 200 battle zero? I'll have to look.