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Posted: 4/3/2006 2:34:14 AM EDT


Found these today at the local flea market. Anybody have a clue?

Strange stuff............
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:35:23 AM EDT
training....
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:38:32 AM EDT
That is one of the oddest things I have ever seen...... the wood actually stays together??? I wonder if it picks up the rifling
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:47:25 AM EDT
You can see a retail listing here:

http://www.samcoglobal.com/ammo.html

Also, as it notes, the wooden bullets can still penetrate and caution should be used. I would also be catious of the bullet splitting or fragmenting into slivers in air, so make sure a good field of view/aim is open before firing, even to your sides. It might just be better yet to pull the bullet, and reload with the same powder but with a new bullet just to be on the safe side.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:09:23 AM EDT
Yes, it was used for training. IIRC, there is a muzzle device that actually does shred the wood projectile to prevent it going too far down range. I think the one I saw was for a Swedish M96 (that's what the threaded muzzle is for).

X
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:15:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 5:24:58 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
While I don't know for certain that "these" rounds above apply;

FWIW, the Germans, at one time used "wooden-bullets" from one of their MGs during WWII.

My uncle told me so and my aunt (rip) used to tell me when I was a kid about him waking up w/ nightmares about the "sound" of these wooden bullets coming thru the trees in the Hurtengen (sp.) forest.

Apparent they were way BAD news if they hit ya.

Mike

ETA - couple links for ref: www.usafa.af.mil/df/dflib/SL3/stalag/bullet.cfm?catname=Dean%20of%20Faculty

www.trailblazersww2.org/divisionhistory/wooden_bullets.htm
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:13:35 PM EDT
Vampires.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:16:59 PM EDT
Wooden bullets were much more realistic than blanks. The Swedes and maybe others had muzzle attachments that would pulverize the bullet.

I can't see them being used for combat. The laws of physics are unbreakable. A lightweight wooden round would be too unstable and lose energy too quickly.

However, at very close ranges, very deadly.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:42:24 PM EDT
It has been a long time, but I read a paratrooper's account of his landing in Normandy in the Reader's Digest. He specifically mentioned that the Germans had used those for the hideous wounds inflicted to try to demoralize/scare US soldiers.

wganz

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:24:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:
It has been a long time, but I read a paratrooper's account of his landing in Normandy in the Reader's Digest. He specifically mentioned that the Germans had used those for the hideous wounds inflicted to try to demoralize/scare US soldiers.

wganz




That would make sense. Woodens bullets wouldn't have as large a range as normal bullets, so they would be far more safe to use when in the situation that a Paratropper drops in the midst of troops and the potential to miss/penetrate the paratropper and kill a fellow German is very likely, not to mention as discused the horrible wounds they could inflict would just be that much more advantageous to use them.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:43:06 PM EDT
i have shot these out of a mauser and they do nothing but turn to sawdust 20 feet out of the barrel. the rifling spins them to shreds probably before they even reach the muzzle. they are only used as blanks for training. the fact that something actually does come out of the barrel is really just a drawback. think about it. these use the same brass as real ammo, probably using the same exact loading equipment as real ammo, and the wooden projectile will feed much better in the gun as opposed to a crimped brass tip blank. these are real assets in a time of war.
having said that, i have no doubt that soldiers would occasionally aim and fire these at people or prisoners out of cruelty.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:51:58 PM EDT
I remember reading somewhere that the Viet Cong made wooden bullets out of some of the super-dense jungle hardwoods and used them more than a few times. Same kind of egregarious wounds. Probably were a bit more shootable as well, with the kind of ironwood species that grow in those regions.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 9:52:28 PM EDT
My father was a captain in the 101st Airborne in both France and Holland. He brought home a five round clip of wooden tiped Nazi bullets. He told me that they were practice rounds - none of them contained any gunpowder. He's gone now, so I can't ask him anymore questions. It's been many a year, but I remember that they looked like the 5 rounds in-the-clip type of 8mm bullets.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:14:23 PM EDT
I have some of these. The muzzle protector for my M48 has reverse threads/rifling to shred them. I havn't tried shooting them, they just sit on a shelf and look neat.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:20:17 AM EDT
You don't need a wooden bullet to have horrific wounds. Regular ball ammo will do the same. It is not your goal to wound the enemy. You don't have to try to wound the enemy. In battle, only a minority of the wounds are fatal. If you shoot the enemy, you will have plenty of wounded, non-dead people for the other side to have to process.

This whole idea that they wanted to just wound us so we would have to care for the wounded is just silly on the face of it.

Wooden machine gun bullets are the other silly idea. Wood swells and it burns. You really want to arm your defensive MG with ammo that runs the risk of not feeding because of high humidity or might catch fire from a super heated weapon?

The are for training soldiers in the use of bolt action weapons.

With all due respect to our vets, both living and dead, many didn't know anything about armament prior to being issued a Garand or carbine. War does not make people instant weapons experts.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:37:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 6:38:57 AM EDT by Meademac]

Originally Posted By slap_shot:
i have shot these out of a mauser and they do nothing but turn to sawdust 20 feet out of the barrel. the rifling spins them to shreds probably before they even reach the muzzle. they are only used as blanks for training. the fact that something actually does come out of the barrel is really just a drawback. think about it. these use the same brass as real ammo, probably using the same exact loading equipment as real ammo, and the wooden projectile will feed much better in the gun as opposed to a crimped brass tip blank. these are real assets in a time of war.
having said that, i have no doubt that soldiers would occasionally aim and fire these at people or prisoners out of cruelty.



Slap_shot is right on- these are training rounds only and the wooden "projectile" acts only to enable a round to be chambered like an actual round and are essentially blanks. Not that I would stand in front of a rifle shooting wooden rounds....disclaimer.

Hey archer2- Do you have picture of the headstamps?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:56:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 7:57:48 AM EDT by archer2]

Originally Posted By Meademac:

Hey archer2- Do you have picture of the headstamps?



No, I don't have pictures, but the cases are stamped with:
LO
V,9r
and a snake looking line.

Someone told me maybe Syrian 8mm practice rounds...........
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:42:01 PM EDT
From your headstamp description, I would say some sort of middle eastern type training rounds as well.

Yes the Germans had wood bulleted rounds....for training and for grenade launching. The training rounds, or Blatzpatrone were usually loaded in once or twice fired brass...which you could tell by the knurled ring(s) put on the cases, one for once fired, two for twice fired....they were discarded after that. They also usually had violet or pinkish colored wodd projectiles.

The grenade blanks were virgin cases and had a natural wood bullet.

Unless someone was completely out of ammo and was really desperate, the Germans would not have used any wood bulleted rounds in combat.....
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:58:29 AM EDT
As stated above, they used a blank firing device at the end of the barrel to shred the bullets. And yeah, I doubt a wood bullet could hold up to the forces it would be under, it would just spray splinters for a few yards.

For the m39 it looked like this from e-gunparts.



Buymilsurp.com sells them for Swedish mausers.



I was told that the cleaning rod guide attachment that comes with the yugo m48 served the same purpose, but I never wanted to risk trying it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:48:51 AM EDT
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