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Posted: 3/14/2006 2:48:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 2:49:53 AM EDT by NeoWeird]
Just curious. I had always assumed that most, if not all, of the weapons the CMP had for sale had never seen real combat. They were either drill/training weapons, loans, ceremony weapons, guards, etc. and never really saw combat in their technological lifetime (ie WWII) and as they became outdated or something better came along they were simply put out of service to the CMP.

That was until I got my serial numbers from my CMP purchase and apparently my 1903 is a first year Remington production (1942), which would make you believe that if it was first year it was probably badly needed during the war and while it is possible it may have never seen real combat, there is a good chance it was at least issued to some random GI.

So what are the odds that anything the CMP has was actually issued for combat? Is there any database of numbers where you can check to see if a rifle was issued? It's not important, just would add a little pride factor knowing that my Garands or my 1903 helped protect the world, and not just Greece.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:06:14 AM EDT
Yours was the decisive weapon that won the battle of Wounded Knee!
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:07:58 AM EDT
Dollars to doughnuts says we don't have a RELIABLE system today that accts for serial #s to personell issued & where & when, much less in the 1940s when we had better things to do, like engage in a world war.

It would be cool though.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:42:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 6:45:55 AM EDT by MauserMark]
Impossible to know really.

think of it this way, if you have a russian captured K98, at one time it was in German hands, and later by either surrender or the death of that soldier, it was placed into soviet hands.

but again, it could have been with a huge pile of surrendered arms after the war was over and could of just been used by a prison guard or the like.

another, are the vet bring back Arisakas and other vet bring backs. My Grandfather eventually gave me a Type 99 (Arisaka) Bayonet he took from a dead Japanese soldier (He landed on Okinawa with the marines). Can I ever be sure of this? No not really, do I know if he actually killed that soldier? Never will since he's gone (God grant him peace), but to me I like to think he did actually take it from a dead one, since that island was littered with them.

Just beware of the carnie dealers at fun shows who tell you "that there rifle, yes sir straight from Stalingrad I was told!"

they have no real idea where it came from and the importers would never say anything about that seeing that they probably wouldn't know either.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:12:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Just curious. I had always assumed that most, if not all, of the weapons the CMP had for sale had never seen real combat. They were either drill/training weapons, loans, ceremony weapons, guards, etc. and never really saw combat in their technological lifetime (ie WWII) and as they became outdated or something better came along they were simply put out of service to the CMP.

That was until I got my serial numbers from my CMP purchase and apparently my 1903 is a first year Remington production (1942), which would make you believe that if it was first year it was probably badly needed during the war and while it is possible it may have never seen real combat, there is a good chance it was at least issued to some random GI.

So what are the odds that anything the CMP has was actually issued for combat? Is there any database of numbers where you can check to see if a rifle was issued? It's not important, just would add a little pride factor knowing that my Garands or my 1903 helped protect the world, and not just Greece.





You can request a war year rifle from CMP, but probably impossible to tell if the weapon (or more likely parts of a weapon) saw combat.

My stepfather is a WWII vet. He was issued the 1917 during the war and never handled the Garand.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:07:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

My stepfather is a WWII vet. He was issued the 1917 during the war and never handled the Garand.



Where did he serve?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:19:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

My stepfather is a WWII vet. He was issued the 1917 during the war and never handled the Garand.



Where did he serve?




I believe he was in Greece.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:49:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

Is there any database of numbers where you can check to see if a rifle was issued?




About the only place that *might* have the history of your rifle is the Springfield Research Service. Do a Google on that and it will take you right there. Not all rifles are there and it is usually only a brief snapshot in history of where your gun was.

Think about the amount of paperwork that would be needed to keep the history of where each and every small arm went and to which unit. The amount of manhours needed just to keep up with this is incredible. The amount of warehouse space needed would be incredible as well. Between just Garands and Carbines, we're talking how many *millions* of rifles?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:00:05 PM EDT
My grandfather brought back his own M-1 Carbine and 1911. He also brought back an S.A. Honor Dagger and a Luger. His brother brought back an Arisaka 99 with bayonet. I know for a fact that my grandfater saw combat and his rifle and 1911 were right there beside him. The thing that sucks is that he gave away the M-1 carbine, 1911, and luger to friends as soon as he got back. It would be cool to have those pieces of history but I cant really complain because if he would have died over there then I wouldnt even be here in the first place. Luckily I do have the dagger and arisaka. Who knows if the arisaka was ever used or not.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:12:05 PM EDT
While you can't prove WW2 usage, it did help stem the spread of Communism in Greece. Many of the early Remingtons were Lend-Lease to British Commonwealth countries and were used the in Middle East and Italy. I've heard rumblings that some of these rifles were either refurbed overseas after they were turned back in and then sent straight to Greece or handed straight over by the Commonwealth troops in Greece at the wars end to the Greek govt. This info is from 3 or 4 years ago when the Greek returns first surfaced.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:20:12 PM EDT
Of course I don't mean a detailed history of the weapon or even specifics, but I was just curious as to records along the lines of "[manufacturer] contract for rifles [number] through [number] sent to [base] [location] for [military branch]." Know what I mean? Like "Springfield Armory 1,000,000 through 1,025,000 to Random Base in Random State for Army 101 Airborne." or "Winchester 1,000 through 1,500 Random Base in Random State for on base rifle drills and training."

I just got my rifles today (almost a month of waiting) and from what I picked up on the internet it's a 42 Remington 1903, 43 Winchester M1 Garand, and a 44 Springfield Armory M1 Garand. I Figure the dates may be cutting it close on the Springfield as it would take time to go from manufacturer date, to warehouse, to being transported, issued, etc. but the 1903 and Winchester are pretty good candidates for an issued wepaon. Like I said, I'm not saying my rifle was the rifle that killed so and so, or that was the first/final shot and somewhere; it would just add a little pride to know that the rifle was first issued to a GI and was a second hand to some foreign country than just a simple mass produced model that was shipped somewhere else. If that makes sense.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:17:45 PM EDT
My M1 was used to take down no less than 100 Germans.

At least thats the way it is in my mind.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:27:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Of course I don't mean a detailed history of the weapon or even specifics, but I was just curious as to records along the lines of "[manufacturer] contract for rifles [number] through [number] sent to [base] [location] for [military branch]." Know what I mean? Like "Springfield Armory 1,000,000 through 1,025,000 to Random Base in Random State for Army 101 Airborne." or "Winchester 1,000 through 1,500 Random Base in Random State for on base rifle drills and training."

I just got my rifles today (almost a month of waiting) and from what I picked up on the internet it's a 42 Remington 1903, 43 Winchester M1 Garand, and a 44 Springfield Armory M1 Garand. I Figure the dates may be cutting it close on the Springfield as it would take time to go from manufacturer date, to warehouse, to being transported, issued, etc. but the 1903 and Winchester are pretty good candidates for an issued wepaon. Like I said, I'm not saying my rifle was the rifle that killed so and so, or that was the first/final shot and somewhere; it would just add a little pride to know that the rifle was first issued to a GI and was a second hand to some foreign country than just a simple mass produced model that was shipped somewhere else. If that makes sense.



Problem is rifles weren't issued in consecutive serial number lots. Didn't even leave the factory in consecutive lots.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:12:29 PM EDT
try armscollectors.com,

look to the left and click on U.S. Military Serial Numbers
(springfield research service)

you may or may not get a hit with your serial #,

like the rebel rifle said, it is only a smapshot in time, but you never know!!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:31:38 AM EDT
My Garand receiver was made in 1954, so no chance, but my stock has a very low serial number so it probably saw combat.

And my M1 Carbine has low numbers so I am guessing it saw service too.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 2:13:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JThompson:
My M1 was used to take down no less than 100 Germans.

At least thats the way it is in my mind.



Mine is an Oct. '43 Springfield. It was wearing a worn out SA 5 - 1945 barrel when I got it. It's mostly Springfield parts too. The only postwar parts were the M14 metric sight and postwar op rod.

I picture it marching across Europe after coming ashore in Normandy and kicking Hitler's ass. Then being rebarreled for the Japanese invasion.

But who really knows. <shrug>
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:50:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
Dollars to doughnuts says we don't have a RELIABLE system today that accts for serial #s to personell issued & where & when, much less in the 1940s when we had better things to do, like engage in a world war.

It would be cool though.

well then you get stuff like happened to my grandpa.

"here you go m1 garand now clean that grease of soldier"
a little later

"wait a minute your a radio man Heres a m1 carbine"
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:49:50 PM EDT
Wouldn't mind owning Sgt. York's '03...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:00:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Face_Stabber:
Wouldn't mind owning Sgt. York's '03...




Someone probably does, they just don't know it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:34:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 4:37:34 AM EDT by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By Face_Stabber:
Wouldn't mind owning Sgt. York's '03...



Don't think that'll ever happen as Alvin C. York didn't carry an '03 Springfield.

York carried a 1917 Lee-Enfield Model 17 rifle.

Mike

ETA - fairly current event story on Sgt. York: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11965337/
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:49:43 AM EDT
Grandpa was issued a 1903. Late in the war too.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:02:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By Face_Stabber:
Wouldn't mind owning Sgt. York's '03...



Don't think that'll ever happen as Alvin C. York didn't carry an '03 Springfield.

York carried a 1917 Lee-Enfield Model 17 rifle.

Mike

ETA - fairly current event story on Sgt. York: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11965337/




The US model of 1917 was NOT a Lee-Enfield rifle.

As to what York carried and/or carried out his famous action with is up to debate as of late. His son has said one thing, the issuing records of York's unit say another and York's own personal diaries are vague as well. I doubt we will *really* know.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:03:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
Grandpa was issued a 1903. Late in the war too.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/twonami/discharge2.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/twonami/cmp5.jpg



Very cool!
Thanks for posting that
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:13:38 AM EDT
My SA is an Aug 43 item. I can smell the saltwater in the wood from Normandy and Iwo Jima even though it has Danish Birch Stocks.

I would love to shake the hand that carried it in the War. Hell it could have went to Korea as well.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:19:42 AM EDT
Here's a few more that I posted a while back.(sorry for the hijack)












Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:27:02 AM EDT
Great hijack twonami.

Thanks for posting those pictures. I love looking at them. Wish my family had some.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:50:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 4:50:44 PM EDT by NeoWeird]
twonami is just jealous, because of all the souvenirs his grandapa could have given him all he got was a shirt that said "My grandpa served in WWII and all I got was this lousy t-shirt".
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:56:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
twonami is just jealous, because of all the souvenirs his grandapa could have given him all he got was a shirt that said "My grandpa served in WWII and all I got was this lousy t-shirt".


According to my brother, my dear sweet mother(I still love her)threw away a whole bunch of his stuff that he had.
He didn't care about it anymore or didn't say anything but my brother remembers seeing the local kids grabbing all the stuff that got tossed
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:59:32 AM EDT
My Dad had LOTS of goodies,but somehow most of it disapeared between Hawaii and the mainland. I've still got some of his WWII stuff,and it's PRICELESS to me.And I cringe to think of the stuff I destroyed as a kid.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:43:27 PM EDT
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