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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:44:59 PM EDT
OK, I sent off my application and am looking at online sellers doing a little window shopping.

One thing I notice is several dealers speak about how their current inventory is not as clean/nice as past shipments. Is this the trend? Are the typical popular C&R guns (Mausers, K31s, etc.) drying up? Or are their warehouses of this stuff still out there waiting to hit the C&R market? If not, what happens when the current supplies are gone?

Does the clock keeps ticking and what isn't a C&R today become one tomorrow? It seems like mostly we're dealing with military guns, aren't we? I doubt we'll ever see M-14s on the C&R list so what are we looking at down the road? AK? FAL? Or will those kinds of guns not make the list?

We're 8 years away from a pre-64 Winchester being 50 years old. Will common sporting arms get reclassified?

Dust off your crystal ball and tell me what you think the C&R dealers will be carrying in 5 to 10 years.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:08:35 PM EDT
I don't see wholesalers playing a significant role such as they have for the last 20 years. There's still going to be a lot of C&R's around.

Dennis Jenkins



Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
OK, I sent off my application and am looking at online sellers doing a little window shopping.

One thing I notice is several dealers speak about how their current inventory is not as clean/nice as past shipments. Is this the trend? Are the typical popular C&R guns (Mausers, K31s, etc.) drying up? Or are their warehouses of this stuff still out there waiting to hit the C&R market? If not, what happens when the current supplies are gone?

Does the clock keeps ticking and what isn't a C&R today become one tomorrow? It seems like mostly we're dealing with military guns, aren't we? I doubt we'll ever see M-14s on the C&R list so what are we looking at down the road? AK? FAL? Or will those kinds of guns not make the list?

We're 8 years away from a pre-64 Winchester being 50 years old. Will common sporting arms get reclassified?

Dust off your crystal ball and tell me what you think the C&R dealers will be carrying in 5 to 10 years.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:56:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
OK, I sent off my application and am looking at online sellers doing a little window shopping.

One thing I notice is several dealers speak about how their current inventory is not as clean/nice as past shipments. Is this the trend? Are the typical popular C&R guns (Mausers, K31s, etc.) drying up? Or are their warehouses of this stuff still out there waiting to hit the C&R market? If not, what happens when the current supplies are gone?

Does the clock keeps ticking and what isn't a C&R today become one tomorrow? It seems like mostly we're dealing with military guns, aren't we? I doubt we'll ever see M-14s on the C&R list so what are we looking at down the road? AK? FAL? Or will those kinds of guns not make the list?

We're 8 years away from a pre-64 Winchester being 50 years old. Will common sporting arms get reclassified?

Dust off your crystal ball and tell me what you think the C&R dealers will be carrying in 5 to 10 years.



Some common sporting arms have been reclassified before they are 50 years old. For instance, several pre-64 Winchesters have been classified as a C&R for many years.

Here is a sampling from the C&R list:

Winchester, Model 12, pump action shotguns, mfd. from 1912 through 1963, S/Ns 1 through 1962017.
Winchester, Model 12, Shotgun, 12 gauge, prototype, for Ducks Unlimited Commemorative, S/N Y2002214.
* Winchester, Model 12 Y, pump action shotguns, all variations, manufactured between 1972 and 1979, S/Ns Y2000100 through Y2026399.
Winchester, Model 37, single barrel shotguns, all gauges, manufactured between 1936 and 1963.
* Winchester, Model 70, .300 Winchester Magnum, 50th Anniversary bolt action rifle, serial numbers 50 ANV 1 through 50 ANV 500.
Winchester, Model 70, bolt action rifle, all cals., mfd. in or before 1963 having S/Ns less than 581472.
Winchester, Model 70, rifle, cal. .308 rifle, 19" barrel and Mannlicher type stock, made from 1968 to 1971.
Winchester, Model 70, rifles, .308, .270 Winchester, and 30-06 cal., 19" barrel and Mannlicher type stock, made from 1968 to 1971.
Winchester, Model 71, all original, mfd. from 1936 to 1958 with 16"or longer barrel and 26" or Longer overall length.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
Some common sporting arms have been reclassified before they are 50 years old. For instance, several pre-64 Winchesters have been classified as a C&R for many years.

Here is a sampling from the C&R list:

Winchester, Model 12, pump action shotguns, mfd. from 1912 through 1963, S/Ns 1 through 1962017.
Winchester, Model 12, Shotgun, 12 gauge, prototype, for Ducks Unlimited Commemorative, S/N Y2002214 . . .





So, that raises what is probably a stupid question. When they list a serial number on the C&R list do they mean just that number or any gun with a number lower than that number?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:40:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 12:02:25 PM EDT by cyrax777]
doesnt have to be on the list to be a C&R anything over 50 years old is automaticaly a C&R.

the list is just to make it easyer to tell that and some stuff has been declared c&r do to collector value such as original ar-15's the full auto ones rollmarked armalite and colt and some other stuff.

as for the future I see alot of pistols coming in as more and more countrys update there old models to newer stuff.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 1:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
doesnt have to be on the list to be a C&R anything over 50 years old is automaticaly a C&R.

the list is just to make it easyer to tell that and some stuff has been declared c&r do to collector value such as original ar-15's the full auto ones rollmarked armalite and colt and some other stuff.

as for the future I see alot of pistols coming in as more and more countrys update there old models to newer stuff.



That's what I posted, examples of C&R firearms less than 50 years old. They do have to be on the list.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 1:08:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
Some common sporting arms have been reclassified before they are 50 years old. For instance, several pre-64 Winchesters have been classified as a C&R for many years.

Here is a sampling from the C&R list:

Winchester, Model 12, pump action shotguns, mfd. from 1912 through 1963, S/Ns 1 through 1962017.
Winchester, Model 12, Shotgun, 12 gauge, prototype, for Ducks Unlimited Commemorative, S/N Y2002214 . . .





So, that raises what is probably a stupid question. When they list a serial number on the C&R list do they mean just that number or any gun with a number lower than that number?



They mean just that number or range of numbers. There are several single firearms listed by serial number.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:51:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
doesnt have to be on the list to be a C&R anything over 50 years old is automaticaly a C&R.



Really! Is that right? I thought I had read several places that you couldn't assume something is a C&R just because it''s 50 years old.

BTW, I'm not doubting you. I just want to make sure I understand.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 8:00:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
doesnt have to be on the list to be a C&R anything over 50 years old is automaticaly a C&R.



Really! Is that right? I thought I had read several places that you couldn't assume something is a C&R just because it''s 50 years old.

BTW, I'm not doubting you. I just want to make sure I understand.



Anything over 50 years old is automatically C&R unless BATF has ruled on certain items, such as receivers, which they do not consider C&R regardless of age. Here is the definition from the regulation. Note that to be a C&R the firearm only has to meet one of the three criteria.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Definitions

Sec. 478.11 Meaning of terms.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to
collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with
firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.
To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of
the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the
current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal,
State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics
of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their
monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or
because of their association with some historical figure, period, or
event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this
category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence
that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or
that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial
channels is substantially less.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:30:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:54:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
Anything over 50 years old is automatically C&R unless BATF has ruled on certain items, such as receivers, which they do not consider C&R regardless of age. Here is the definition from the regulation. Note that to be a C&R the firearm only has to meet one of the three criteria.



Cool. Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:40:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:
So an AK or a FAL can have the full auto guts swapped with semi parts and then come in as a C&R in a few years? Or just come in full auto?


no

sadly ATF holds one a machine gun always a machine gun.

hence why no surplus m14's from CMP.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:37:17 PM EDT
ok so..the QUESTION is...what kind of MILITARY SURPLUS firearms will be coming available for our purchase? ideas?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:37:07 PM EDT
Most likely NOT a lot of CHEAP stuff from the wholesalers.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally Posted By Dieter122:
ok so..the QUESTION is...what kind of MILITARY SURPLUS firearms will be coming available for our purchase? ideas?

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 2:48:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By MRW:
So an AK or a FAL can have the full auto guts swapped with semi parts and then come in as a C&R in a few years? Or just come in full auto?


no

sadly ATF holds one a machine gun always a machine gun.

hence why no surplus m14's from CMP.



That would be nice.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:08:07 PM EDT
So Garands, SKS's and M1 Carbines made over 50 years ago are C&R?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:45:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
So Garands, SKS's and M1 Carbines made over 50 years ago are C&R?

yes.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
So Garands, SKS's and M1 Carbines made over 50 years ago are C&R?

yes.



Even Garands made less than 50 years ago are C&R since they are specifically listed. Also, all USGI M1 carbines were manufactured more than 50 years ago.
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