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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:51:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 5:52:28 PM EDT by panzersergeant]
Just picked this one up at a pawn shop. There are no markings on this rifle anywhere and I am curious
as to when and where this gun was made. The buttstock has been replaced with one that is lighter in color.
Other than that, the action is crisp and the metal is in good shape.

Any clues as to what I got here?



Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:00:57 PM EDT
I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt.

If I read the markings right it looks like "No.2*" on the left side.
If I remember right this is an original enfield mk4 brought up to the No.2 standard, that is the reason for the * after No.2.
They simplified the bolt removal and changed the rear site to the L type site. The manufacture should have been on the bolt side of the metal band behind the trigger. It was sometimes ground off during rebuild or when it was brought up to current standards of the time.

Google Lee Enfield collectors and you will find more info.

Rifle looks good BTW.

I currently have a Savage and am looking to add a regular mk4.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:54:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 10:57:55 PM EDT by 199]
Looks like someone did a rather poor job of refinishing the forend, too.

Other than that, it appears to be a nice looking rifle.

On the ones I’ve seen, the manufacturer’s markings have been on the left side of what (IIRC) is called the “buttstock socket”, which is the big band of steel at the rear end of the receiver which the rear of the triggerguard is attached to.

It almost appears there are some really fine markings yours, but maybe not.

Does the upper receiver have a “POF” marking on it? If so, that probably stands for “Pakistan Ordnance Factory” and likely means they rebuilt it. OTOH, if it was rebuilt there, I’d think it would be covered with black paint.

Other parts like the barrel bands, front sight protector, and such may have codes indicating where the parts were made. Also look at the top of the barrel underneath the handguard for marks.

However, if it was ever rebuilt (as is likely considering the scrubbed buttsocket) you could have a mix of parts.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 11:49:38 PM EDT by tangeant]
Well it says right on the side " No4 Mk1 ROF ---4/4? " faint serial vis on socket " BC xxxxxxx " BC series should be 1943ish

Don't have a ref handy for a full info regurgitation but it looks like a 4/43 vintage No4Mk1 made at Fazarkaly to me.

Metal finish looks original ( blackened ) turned patina'd , stock has been refinished and the butt has been changed. Looks like a import from India.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:23:22 AM EDT
Looks like a many-times rebuilt Fazakerly, mix of parts and furniture.

A good old warhorse. Shoot the hell out of it!

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:47:07 AM EDT
Well - if it’s “ROF”, then it’s Royal Ordnance Factory, which is a far cry from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory that I mentioned above.

If the SN prefix is “BC” (which I absolutely cannot see ) I believe that puts it from Maltby.

Not that it necessarily means anything, but it doesn’t appear to have the dreaded “Isshy screw”.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:01:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
Well it says right on the side " No4 Mk1 ROF ---4/4? " faint serial vis on socket " BC xxxxxxx " BC series should be 1943ish

Don't have a ref handy for a full info regurgitation but it looks like a 4/43 vintage No4Mk1 made at Fazarkaly to me.

Metal finish looks original ( blackened ) turned patina'd , stock has been refinished and the butt has been changed. Looks like a import from India.



Whoa... I guess I should have looked a little closer. I did not see the markings on the receiver. I will take it apart and look for more indentification marks on it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:56:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 3:58:20 AM EDT by tangeant]
If you could put the safety on so we could see the date and get a better pic of the electro pencilled markings it would help. Don't bother taking it apart as there isn't any more markings neccesary for ID.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:16:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 199:
Well - if it’s “ROF”, then it’s Royal Ordnance Factory, which is a far cry from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory that I mentioned above.

If the SN prefix is “BC” (which I absolutely cannot see ) I believe that puts it from Maltby.

Not that it necessarily means anything, but it doesn’t appear to have the dreaded “Isshy screw”.



You're right, BC is maltby. Dunno why I thought Fazakerly (F). Duh, I should know better.

There have been some Indian reworks that came in without the "screw", but usually the Indians did reinforce them. There have also been an influx of Turkish & Greek No4's, this gun could be either, as well.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:29:36 PM EDT
Didn't Gibbs or Navy Arms put a bunch of these together back in the late 80's? I remember seeing a few of these at a dealer ,and or course hearing stories, and you could see where they had taken different parts to assemble a rifle.

Still for the right price it is a great rifle to shoot and enjoy.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:44:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sajer:
Didn't Gibbs or Navy Arms put a bunch of these together back in the late 80's? I remember seeing a few of these at a dealer ,and or course hearing stories, and you could see where they had taken different parts to assemble a rifle.

Still for the right price it is a great rifle to shoot and enjoy.



I paid a hundred bucks out the door.
If it doesn't blow up when I shoot it I will have gotten my money's worth.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:04:44 PM EDT
The location and style of the markings are indicative of Fazarkeley though the markings right after " ROF " are hard to make out in the pic . If it were a Maltby esp a 43 you expect to see " M 1943 BC xxxxx " stamped on the socket and " No4MkI " stamped on the side of receiver forward of ejector screw...

Deff need a clearer pic ....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:11:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
If you could put the safety on so we could see the date and get a better pic of the electro pencilled markings it would help. Don't bother taking it apart as there isn't any more markings neccesary for ID.



"No4 Mk1 ROF --- 4/43" is all I can make out. There are other characters in between but they are illegible. My camera wizard's not working right now but I will post another pic with the safety lever moved when I get it fixed.

Thanks for the input!
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