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Posted: 6/25/2005 10:39:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2005 9:12:25 PM EDT by RhinelandArms]
We have started work on a .17HMR and a 5.7mm version of the Rhineland Arms R22 rifle. And we were wondering if there is any interest in these.

The magnum version of the R22 would look the exact same as the standard R22 22LR but have some changes to the receiver and mag well, it would also have a new bolt. We will probably go with a Marlin or Remington mag, this is much easier to work with than the Ruger mags, it would also enable me to guarantee accuracy as well as function straight out of the box. My guess is it would be priced at $415-$450.

We also have the parts ready to go for a 5.7mm version of the R22. This is the cartridge used in the FN P90 submachinegun. We would be using the FN FiveSeven pistol magazine to feed it thus you would have a option of 10 or 20 rounds. This would use a lot of common parts as well. I would like to use a AR type stock. Price would be around $450-$475 on this one. We would build this one only if we could get California approval.

Any interest in either of these?
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 12:40:49 PM EDT
how accurate are we talking? any idea on a goal?

I would be interested
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 2:16:13 PM EDT
I would suggest coming up with your own high-cap mags as well.
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 4:18:52 PM EDT
count me in! Put me on the list
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 6:43:59 PM EDT
5.7 mm would be sweet
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 6:55:28 PM EDT
I'm very happy with my R22 in .22LR. If a "barrel, bolt and mag" conversion to 17HMR were available, I MIGHT be interested. If it required a new receiver, I would not be.

If the 17M2 bug ever bites me, I would consider converting my R22 to that, if you get it worked out. But as I said I am very happy with it in .22LR and am not at this time looking to switch.

Good idea waiting for CA approval before proceding with the 5.7. I imagine that CA will be a major market for you since they cannot easily own .22 AR conversions. If they consider a centerfire version of your gun to be interchangable with the rimfire, that would kill that market. CA just issued a "recall" on the Walther 22 pistol because it has a threaded barrel--all examples already approved and legally in the state have to go back to the mfgr for a retrofit to stay legal. You don't want to get caught up in something like THAT mess. You never know what those CA nuts are going to do next.
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 9:02:41 PM EDT
i would love to have a 5.7x28 rifle i love my 5.7 pistol
plus i already have 3 20rds
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 4:13:20 AM EDT
The 5.7X28 model would be great -- the ammo is reloadable, but I think you might run into a wall in California since I think there is a lot of opposition to that round due to bad press from the Brady Bunch. The next best choice would be a .17 HMR/.22 Magnum version but the magazines are the downfall -- unless you can come up with something better than the 7 round Marlin.

Best of luck to you!
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 5:54:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AdamTheFarmer:
5.7 mm would be sweet




+1 I want one
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 12:12:56 PM EDT
I would love to have both but I don't see CA approving the 5.7 version. Pistol grip would have to go and then what'd be the point? Damn hippies.
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 6:11:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RhinelandArms:
We also have the parts ready to go for a 5.7mm version of the R22. This is the cartridge used in the FN P90 submachinegun. We would be using the FN FiveSeven pistol magazine to feed it thus you would have a option of 10 or 20 rounds. This would use a lot of common parts as well. I would like to use a AR type stock on this one. Price would be around $450-$475 on this one. We would build this one only if we could get California approval.

Any interest in either of these?



You know, I think I would really like the 5.7X28 with the AR type stock -- could you maybe make both rifles, the one that will fit California laws and the 5.7X28 rifle for the rest of us? $475 isn't that much for a good semi-auto.
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 6:14:38 PM EDT
Very interested in the 5.7mm!
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 11:31:41 PM EDT
I am not sold on the 5.7mm round. I read and studied about it when it was brand new. Very good for the purpose it was designed for, but nothing else. I'de take a .17HMR over it any day.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 7:35:06 AM EDT
44-Canon,
Each one of us has our likes and dislikes but I'd love to see Rhineland build both -- not just what was acceptable in California. The 5.7X28 is expensive right now but that will come down as soon as the volume of that ammo increases. The reason I would like it is it's very similar to the 22 magnum in power but that was testing out of the 10" P-90 barrel -- the new civilian PS-90 has a 16" barrel and the bullets run about 450fps faster (2700fps for a 35gr bullet). The big plus is the fact that the ammo can be reloaded and we can each build up our own special loads.

I know you live in California and that state will probably not take well to the 5.7X28 round.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 7:52:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2005 7:53:49 AM EDT by slipjoint]
Guys, the Cal DOJ did approve the FN FiveSeven for CA sales. This was amidst all that paranoia and bad press.

There is no reason why a rifle that doesn't fall in the "Assault Weapons" category would be disapproved.

That said, I'd be interested in a 5.7x28. I already have many .22 tack drivers
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 8:17:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2005 9:16:27 AM EDT by phobos512]
The 5.7 round is a centerfire is it not? If the rifle Rhineland makes to shoot it looks ANYTHING like the R22 (that being, pistol grip), it won't be approved. It'll be an assault weapon.

" 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

So what about a fixed 10-rd internal mag...That'd work. Still would suck though.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 8:21:39 AM EDT
Sure.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 12:04:36 PM EDT
I'd be interested in a 5.7 version of it I think, Would be VERY interested in a .22 magnum/.17 HMR interchangeable one if high-capacity magazines existed for it.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 1:46:16 PM EDT
+1 for 5.7
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 3:32:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2005 3:38:14 PM EDT by AR-fan]
A little information on the 5.7X28 rounds. There are several rounds and several firearms for the ammo. The FiveseveN pistol, the 10" barreled P-90 carbine and the 16" barreled civilian PS-90 -- I'm listing these only to give you an idea of what the little round can do.

Here are the velocities, projectile weights, and resulting muzzle energies for the basic 5.7x28mm ammunition types when fired from the P-90, PS-90, and Five-seveN:

Muzzle Velocity:
|---------------P90-------|----------PS90---------|------FiveseveN----|

SS190 |----(2350 fps)-----------(2750 fps)-------------(2150 fps)-----|
SS192 |----(2350 fps)-----------(2750 fps)-------------(2150 fps)-----|
SS196 |----(1850 fps)-----------(2250 fps)-------------(1650 fps)-----|
SS197 |----(2200 fps)-----------(2600 fps)-------------(2000 fps)-----|

Projectile Weight:
SS190 |-----------------31 grains (2.02 grams)
SS192 |-----------------28 grains (1.81 grams)
SS196 |-----------------40 grains (2.58 grams)
SS197 |-----------------40 grains (2.58 grams)

Muzzle Energy:
|---------------P90-------|----------PS90---------|------FiveseveN----|

SS190 |----(380 ft. lbs)---------(520 ft. lbs)------------(320 ft. lbs)---|
SS192 |----(345 ft. lbs)---------(470 ft. lbs)------------(290 ft. lbs)---|
SS196 |----(305 ft. lbs)---------(450 ft. lbs)------------(240 ft. lbs)---|
SS197 |----(430 ft. lbs)---------(600 ft. lbs)------------(355 ft. lbs)---|


This is a comparison of the 22 magnum on the right and the 5.7X28 round.

Yes, I am a little partial to the 5.7X28, but only because I already have all kinds of rimfire stuff. The 22 Magnum and the .17 HMR are easily bought at the local Wally World stores so that is a big plus for the rimfires.

Link Posted: 6/27/2005 4:14:52 PM EDT
OK, I have to ask this stupid question because I've been searching for an hour and can't determine the answer through Google...Is the 5.7x28 a centerfire or rimfire cartridge?
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 4:52:20 PM EDT
phobos512,
It's a centerfire cartridge.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 5:04:44 PM EDT
Ok good then all the statements I made are valid. :)
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 7:17:35 AM EDT
That Cali rule sucks, as for me in Ohio, I'd be 10 times more likely to buy a Rhineland arms rifle if it came with a collapsible stock in .22 mag. Ever thought of doing one in .40 cal or .357 sig? That would be one bad-ass carbine.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 7:23:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2005 9:44:46 AM EDT by pyro6988]
I would be interested in a 5.7mm one too.


Where do I sign up?
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 2:51:44 PM EDT
Absolutely. .17HMR or 5.7mm.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 4:49:11 AM EDT
If you do the .17HMR please do some high cap mags for it too.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 6:40:10 PM EDT
I would eventually have to get one in 5.7 to go with my USG!
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 12:12:25 AM EDT
I will take one in 308 :)
That would be the king of all kings for off brand HK clone.

wolf
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 12:34:48 AM EDT
.17hmr....*droooool*
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 8:31:46 AM EDT
Id be down with the 17HMR or the Mach 2. , you at least have to make make one version of the .17. you got the perfect platform for one.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 9:26:37 PM EDT
I'd love to see a 5.7!!!! Please make that rifle.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 11:02:50 PM EDT
308


ym
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 2:11:09 PM EDT
We have started on a 5.7mm prototype. This one is moving along nicely as it uses a massive amount of very common parts. Should have a working unit soon.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 3:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2005 6:03:02 PM EDT by 44-Canon]
If I send you a fourend with a built-in bypod, will you examin it and consider making your rifles with them.
Also, let me know what magazine you will make your .17HMR model to fit, and i'll see if I can't cook you up an easy to make high-cap body.
I decieded to toss the stuff on hand and make my final Batch of Ruger 10/22 XM-8 stocks out of those new air soft XM-8s, so I will have a boat load of magazine bodies on hand very soon.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 5:50:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RhinelandArms:
We have started on a 5.7mm prototype. This one is moving along nicely as it uses a massive amount of very common parts. Should have a working unit soon.



This is the one I'd really love to see -- ammo is a little hard to find right now but FN has contracted Fiocchi USA to manufacture the FN 5.7X28 and it should start shipping in the fall so the ammo should be easier to find and at a better price.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 5:54:26 PM EDT
A 5.7x28mm would be great. The 17HMR would be a boatload of fun if 20 round mags could be conjured up somehow.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 2:59:39 PM EDT
5.7 that takes USG mags would be awsome!

Link Posted: 7/6/2005 8:40:23 PM EDT
Stink on shit
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 10:54:35 PM EDT

A 5.7x28mm would be great. The 17HMR would be a boatload of fun if 20 round mags could be conjured up somehow.


Just make sure I know what mags it will use, and i'll dig Rinland up a body that'll hold more then 20. That is, if it's a double-stack.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 8:34:10 AM EDT
I'd buy one in 17hmr, or even 17m2(I think you said you were already working on a M2?)...especially if you could make hi-caps for them. Not interested in 5.7 though. Ammo is too expensive/scarce for me.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 9:03:16 AM EDT
Would jump on 22mag or 5.7.
CH
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 10:47:54 AM EDT
just letting you know that i would absolutely commit for a 5.7mm version of this rifle. no hesitation whatsoever. i'd even be willing to put a deposit in to get one of the earlier models.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 11:55:16 AM EDT
Just a small question.... Why do you care if it is Calif. compliant or not?
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 1:33:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kingpinGTI:
just letting you know that i would absolutely commit for a 5.7mm version of this rifle. no hesitation whatsoever. i'd even be willing to put a deposit in to get one of the earlier models.



+1 me too.

Hell, I'd buy the working prototype if you let me.....seriously
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 2:02:41 PM EDT
Normally I would not care about the poor suckers in California.

However, they are a huge market that cant be ignored by our small company.

Sorry, no deposits accepted.

Our rifle will be using the FN FiveSeven magazines in either 10 or 20 rounds.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 6:25:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RhinelandArms:
Our rifle will be using the FN FiveSeven magazines in either 10 or 20 rounds.



That sounds great -- any idea as to when you might have the 5.7 model ready for sale? Will we be able to get extra mags with the rifle?
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 6:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By phobos512:
The 5.7 round is a centerfire is it not? If the rifle Rhineland makes to shoot it looks ANYTHING like the R22 (that being, pistol grip), it won't be approved. It'll be an assault weapon.

" 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

So what about a fixed 10-rd internal mag...That'd work. Still would suck though.



I wouldn't buy it with a fixed mag
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 9:42:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR-fan:

Originally Posted By RhinelandArms:
We also have the parts ready to go for a 5.7mm version of the R22. This is the cartridge used in the FN P90 submachinegun. We would be using the FN FiveSeven pistol magazine to feed it thus you would have a option of 10 or 20 rounds. This would use a lot of common parts as well. I would like to use a AR type stock on this one. Price would be around $450-$475 on this one. We would build this one only if we could get California approval.

Any interest in either of these?



You know, I think I would really like the 5.7X28 with the AR type stock -- could you maybe make both rifles, the one that will fit California laws and the 5.7X28 rifle for the rest of us? $475 isn't that much for a good semi-auto.




IMHO, putting an AR type stock on it would be a leap back in time! The HK fit is so much more natural. I just dont get people wanting to put ar stocks on everything from 10/22s to shotguns

CH
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:33:39 AM EDT
Well then much like an AR I guess you won't buy it all.

Let me just say, I HATE CALIFORNIA.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 3:27:53 AM EDT
As much populearity is going around about this 5.7 round, I can't seam to find any justice in going with it over the .17HMR or .22 Magnum. I don't see where it fills a gap between them and other rounds, particularley at such a high price, although I DO see this round becoming very populear fast and therefor, dropping in price.
Rihnland, I figured you would be using FN mags for the 5.7 version. I was thinking of the .17HMR and .22 Magnum.
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