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Posted: 3/26/2019 8:48:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see these are rated for M855, but I dont see any mention of M193? Does RMA make a III+ plate that handles both? Lab results M193 is stopped by UHMWPE. Their IIIA+ SRT plate which is pure PE will stop M193. Since the same material is used in the backer of this plate, it will stop it, at speeds probably unobtainable for any real world M193. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 6:08:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes: Lab results M193 is stopped by UHMWPE. Their IIIA+ SRT plate which is pure PE will stop M193. Since the same material is used in the backer of this plate, it will stop it, at speeds probably unobtainable for any real world M193. That's interesting. Is that why most plates are ceramic strike face with poly backing? |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 6:09:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see these are rated for M855, but I dont see any mention of M193? Does RMA make a III+ plate that handles both? I've always been impressed with Buffmans videos and in This video he tests our level IIIA+ plate with some M193. Now remember, Buffman isn't happy unless he destroys armor and his Carl Gustav 62gr Steel Core is a wicked round that is above rating. That IIIA+ plate in the video was PE, and our III+ has ceramic with it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 6:28:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talked to the boss today. We're going to do a video soon shooting a III+ with M193. It'll probably be a raw cell phone video so you can see it exactly as we see it. I've always been impressed with Buffmans videos and in This video he tests our level IIIA+ plate with some M193. Now remember, Buffman isn't happy unless he destroys armor and his Carl Gustav 62gr Steel Core is a wicked round that is above rating. That IIIA+ place in the video was PE, and our III+ has ceramic with it. Are there temp considerations with these plates? Meaning, will leaving them in a hot patrol car for a few hours cause problems? I'm pretty ignorant in regards to rifle armor and what can cause it problems. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 6:40:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talked to the boss today. We're going to do a video soon shooting a III+ with M193. It'll probably be a raw cell phone video so you can see it exactly as we see it. I've always been impressed with Buffmans videos and in This video he tests our level IIIA+ plate with some M193. Now remember, Buffman isn't happy unless he destroys armor and his Carl Gustav 62gr Steel Core is a wicked round that is above rating. That IIIA+ place in the video was PE, and our III+ has ceramic with it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 7:03:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you both, I appreciate the information. I have a set of Lvl 4 plates that I purchased during the Ferguson mess a few years ago. I'd like something lighter that will stop what I'm most likely to face. Are there temp considerations with these plates? Meaning, will leaving them in a hot patrol car for a few hours cause problems? I'm pretty ignorant in regards to rifle armor and what can cause it problems. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 8:13:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No need to worry about temps. Although III+ rating doesn't have a certification standard right now, other plates that are NIJ certified go through a temperature testing (heat chamber and cold chamber.) With the materials that are used on our III+ there are no worries about being left in a hot car or trunk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Thank you both, I appreciate the information. I have a set of Lvl 4 plates that I purchased during the Ferguson mess a few years ago. I'd like something lighter that will stop what I'm most likely to face. Are there temp considerations with these plates? Meaning, will leaving them in a hot patrol car for a few hours cause problems? I'm pretty ignorant in regards to rifle armor and what can cause it problems. |
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Posted: 3/26/2019 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just to add a bit more. Are the 1091 series plates able to stay in a hot car all day as in left in the trunk permanently for active shooter rig or is only able to handle it for a little while? May be repeating what was said just want to be clear. |
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Posted: 3/27/2019 1:04:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: No need to worry about temps. Although III+ rating doesn't have a certification standard right now, other plates that are NIJ certified go through a temperature testing (heat chamber and cold chamber.) With the materials that are used on our III+ there are no worries about being left in a hot car or trunk. Quoted:
NIJ Cert'd plates must undergo a pretty hot temperature for conditioning. There are discussions as to a breakdown of the PE overtime due to unnecessary heat, but I'm not sure that is a temperature obtainable inside the trunk of your car. I know one manufacturer who puts a 160F temp warning sticker on their plates. I do appreciate it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2019 5:47:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks once again gentlemen. I do appreciate it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2019 9:42:31 PM EDT
[#11]
These threads suck for my bank account......
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Posted: 4/2/2019 8:27:46 PM EDT
[#12]
UHMWPE degrades at 160 F. Above that, say 180 F, it degrades quickly. At 220 F it degrades in seconds. Testing in the lock box in the back of my police Tahoe showed 40 degrees over ambient max temp difference. The back seat hit 60 degrees difference. Also keep in mind even if you set a UHMWPE plate on fire, buring at many hundreds of degrees it takes time for each layer to heat soak and denature. You have to get the whole plate to over 160 F to cause an issue. 10-15 seconds of being on fire would only ruin the first few layers. You could still get out of a burning vehicle, have your plate carrier on fire with buring gasoline, and take multiple AK rounds to the chest no problem. Its not like if you spill hot coffee on it it will be ruined.
So... I dont put my armor exposed in a car to direct sunlight, I put in in a box, or in a bag. I dont worry at all until temps get over 100 F and the vehicle is parked in direct sunlight. Then I just make sure I run the A/C for a bit so it cant totally heat up the whole plate to over 140 F. Keep in mind, putting on armor that is over 140 F is not going to be comfortable, so I try to make sure I can actually put it on if its needed. The real temperature you need to worry about is 160 F and you only get that if you leave your armor exposed to direct sunlight in a car or dont put it in a container of some type. |
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Posted: 4/2/2019 9:12:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UHMWPE degrades at 160 F. Above that, say 180 F, it degrades quickly. At 220 F it degrades in seconds. Testing in the lock box in the back of my police Tahoe showed 40 degrees over ambient max temp difference. The back seat hit 60 degrees difference. Also keep in mind even if you set a UHMWPE plate on fire, buring at many hundreds of degrees it takes time for each layer to heat soak and denature. You have to get the whole plate to over 160 F to cause an issue. 10-15 seconds of being on fire would only ruin the first few layers. You could still get out of a burning vehicle, have your plate carrier on fire with buring gasoline, and take multiple AK rounds to the chest no problem. Its not like if you spill hot coffee on it it will be ruined. So... I dont put my armor exposed in a car to direct sunlight, I put in in a box, or in a bag. I dont worry at all until temps get over 100 F and the vehicle is parked in direct sunlight. Then I just make sure I run the A/C for a bit so it cant totally heat up the whole plate to over 140 F. Keep in mind, putting on armor that is over 140 F is not going to be comfortable, so I try to make sure I can actually put it on if its needed. The real temperature you need to worry about is 160 F and you only get that if you leave your armor exposed to direct sunlight in a car or dont put it in a container of some type. |
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Posted: 4/3/2019 7:58:21 PM EDT
[#14]
any RMA free shipping or other codes floating out there? Not complaining about their pricing, looks like a hell of a deal...
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Posted: 4/3/2019 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
any RMA free shipping or other codes floating out there? Not complaining about their pricing, looks like a hell of a deal... |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:47:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you both, I appreciate the information. I have a set of Lvl 4 plates that I purchased during the Ferguson mess a few years ago. I'd like something lighter that will stop what I'm most likely to face. Are there temp considerations with these plates? Meaning, will leaving them in a hot patrol car for a few hours cause problems? I'm pretty ignorant in regards to rifle armor and what can cause it problems. The thickness of these does have me a bit concerned though. Does anyone know if they would fit in a condor EXO carrier? |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:56:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im actually in the exact same boat - I bought a set of highcomm level IV plates after the Ferguson stuff happened. They are single curve and don't fit terribly well when I toss the carrier on top of my vest, uniform, and other crap I carry in my pockets, plus they are pretty dang heavy and a bit undersized for me. Was looking at these as an alternative since they are so much lighter, plus I work in an urban area where 5.56 and 7.62x39 are the usual rifle calibers we deal with, vs some high end hunting round. Getting these in a larger size since I'm 6'4", while still being lighter than my current 10x12 plates, is tempting. The thickness of these does have me a bit concerned though. Does anyone know if they would fit in a condor EXO carrier? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:20:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Dumb question: After seeing the video, why wouldn’t one just go all out get their level IV plates? This would stop everything that got through the IIIA plate, right?
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Posted: 4/17/2019 7:49:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dumb question: After seeing the video, why wouldn't one just go all out get their level IV plates? This would stop everything that got through the IIIA plate, right? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:30:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The IVs are extremely heavy. Armor so cumbersome you're less willing to use it won't stop anything if you don't wear it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dumb question: After seeing the video, why wouldn't one just go all out get their level IV plates? This would stop everything that got through the IIIA plate, right? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 11:39:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RMA's level IV only weigh 4.4 pounds. I guess, it just comes down to cost. If cost was not a factor, the level IV at 4.4 lbs would be the way to go right? Asking, as I am looking at buying armor and the level IVs seem to be the way to go. I don't know the threats in your area, or what you're expecting to do with these. I can tell you that as a civilian in the US I'm not spending a lot of time worried about muzzle velocity 7.62x54R API and black tip .30-06. If you are, by all means look into level IV, but know that unless you spend a lot of money you're going to have a heavier and less comfortable setup. A lot of people just getting into armor think they need to stop everything under the sun and cover too much space on their bodies, and down that road leads a carrier you won't want to use. Plates aren't designed to keep you from getting injured, they're designed to keep you alive long enough to fight off whatever injured you and get you to a medical facility. After using a set of 8.6 pound level IV plates for a while and weighing the options and thinking about realistic threats and situations I went the opposite direction. I now have plates which protect against much less but weigh a LOT less and have almost no impact on my mobility. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The IVs are extremely heavy. Armor so cumbersome you're less willing to use it won't stop anything if you don't wear it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dumb question: After seeing the video, why wouldn't one just go all out get their level IV plates? This would stop everything that got through the IIIA plate, right? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 12:05:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are a 10x12 plate with an 8x10 strike face, not a 10x12 strike face. That's why they look lighter. If cost is truly not a factor you have some options for high-end level IV, but we're talking at or over $1,000 per plate and that would be better spent on going much lighter IMO. I don't know the threats in your area, or what you're expecting to do with these. I can tell you that as a civilian in the US I'm not spending a lot of time worried about muzzle velocity 7.62x54R API and black tip .30-06. If you are, by all means look into level IV, but know that unless you spend a lot of money you're going to have a heavier and less comfortable setup. A lot of people just getting into armor think they need to stop everything under the sun and cover too much space on their bodies, and down that road leads a carrier you won't want to use. Plates aren't designed to keep you from getting injured, they're designed to keep you alive long enough to fight off whatever injured you and get you to a medical facility. After using a set of 8.6 pound level IV plates for a while and weighing the options and thinking about realistic threats and situations I went the opposite direction. I now have plates which protect against much less but weigh a LOT less and have almost no impact on my mobility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: RMA's level IV only weigh 4.4 pounds. I guess, it just comes down to cost. If cost was not a factor, the level IV at 4.4 lbs would be the way to go right? Asking, as I am looking at buying armor and the level IVs seem to be the way to go. I don't know the threats in your area, or what you're expecting to do with these. I can tell you that as a civilian in the US I'm not spending a lot of time worried about muzzle velocity 7.62x54R API and black tip .30-06. If you are, by all means look into level IV, but know that unless you spend a lot of money you're going to have a heavier and less comfortable setup. A lot of people just getting into armor think they need to stop everything under the sun and cover too much space on their bodies, and down that road leads a carrier you won't want to use. Plates aren't designed to keep you from getting injured, they're designed to keep you alive long enough to fight off whatever injured you and get you to a medical facility. After using a set of 8.6 pound level IV plates for a while and weighing the options and thinking about realistic threats and situations I went the opposite direction. I now have plates which protect against much less but weigh a LOT less and have almost no impact on my mobility. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 1:05:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for that informative write-up. It definitely helped me to re-think things. I am new to armor, so your post helped me immensely. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:13:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are a 10x12 plate with an 8x10 strike face, not a 10x12 strike face. That's why they look lighter. If cost is truly not a factor you have some options for high-end level IV, but we're talking at or over $1,000 per plate and that would be better spent on going much lighter IMO. I don't know the threats in your area, or what you're expecting to do with these. I can tell you that as a civilian in the US I'm not spending a lot of time worried about muzzle velocity 7.62x54R API and black tip .30-06. If you are, by all means look into level IV, but know that unless you spend a lot of money you're going to have a heavier and less comfortable setup. A lot of people just getting into armor think they need to stop everything under the sun and cover too much space on their bodies, and down that road leads a carrier you won't want to use. Plates aren't designed to keep you from getting injured, they're designed to keep you alive long enough to fight off whatever injured you and get you to a medical facility. After using a set of 8.6 pound level IV plates for a while and weighing the options and thinking about realistic threats and situations I went the opposite direction. I now have plates which protect against much less but weigh a LOT less and have almost no impact on my mobility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: RMA's level IV only weigh 4.4 pounds. I guess, it just comes down to cost. If cost was not a factor, the level IV at 4.4 lbs would be the way to go right? Asking, as I am looking at buying armor and the level IVs seem to be the way to go. I don't know the threats in your area, or what you're expecting to do with these. I can tell you that as a civilian in the US I'm not spending a lot of time worried about muzzle velocity 7.62x54R API and black tip .30-06. If you are, by all means look into level IV, but know that unless you spend a lot of money you're going to have a heavier and less comfortable setup. A lot of people just getting into armor think they need to stop everything under the sun and cover too much space on their bodies, and down that road leads a carrier you won't want to use. Plates aren't designed to keep you from getting injured, they're designed to keep you alive long enough to fight off whatever injured you and get you to a medical facility. After using a set of 8.6 pound level IV plates for a while and weighing the options and thinking about realistic threats and situations I went the opposite direction. I now have plates which protect against much less but weigh a LOT less and have almost no impact on my mobility. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:57:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Coming up on a month since ordering. Hope they get here soon.
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:04:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It should also be noted their III+ is their only multi curve plate, every other plate they make is single curve. We're currently working with material dealers (mainly ceramic) to get be able to get more multi-curve options and more size options, along with working on reducing weights/thickness on some current models. It all takes time, money, and working with material manufacturers. We're excited to release new and even better stuff later on in 2019 and the years to come. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:09:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It should also be noted their III+ is their only multi curve plate, every other plate they make is single curve. We're currently working with material dealers (mainly ceramic) to get be able to get more multi-curve options and more size options, along with working on reducing weights/thickness on some current models. It all takes time, money, and working with material manufacturers. We're excited to release new and even better stuff later on in 2019 and the years to come. |
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Posted: 4/18/2019 2:04:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My rig would never be in direct sunlight and I don't think my vehicle would reach those temperatures but what's your opinion on using a type of insulated bag Like this? |
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Posted: 4/20/2019 7:05:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We actually have another multi-curve option in our 1061-1064 series We're currently working with material dealers (mainly ceramic) to get be able to get more multi-curve options and more size options, along with working on reducing weights/thickness on some current models. It all takes time, money, and working with material manufacturers. We're excited to release new and even better stuff later on in 2019 and the years to come. 
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Posted: 5/7/2019 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Coming up on a month since ordering. Hope they get here soon. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 6:03:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Coming up on a month since ordering. Hope they get here soon. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 6:18:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Nope. I'll shoot them an email today.
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Posted: 5/13/2019 4:38:17 PM EDT
[#34]
I ended up calling and they rejected the latest batch, so things are running behind. I'll give it a couple more weeks and then I'll have to move on to something else.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 2:50:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ended up calling and they rejected the latest batch, so things are running behind. I'll give it a couple more weeks and then I'll have to move on to something else. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:48:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Main thing is I've already purchased items that have a return window and I may have to send them back (at my expense) since I don't have the plates to see if they fit and are usable. Not RMA's fault I did that, but it sucks enough that I'm kind of souring on the whole deal.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:08:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Main thing is I've already purchased items that have a return window and I may have to send them back (at my expense) since I don't have the plates to see if they fit and are usable. Not RMA's fault I did that, but it sucks enough that I'm kind of souring on the whole deal. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:31:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Ordered medium plates. Carrier is medium LBT-6094A. 30 days left to return.
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Posted: 5/15/2019 2:54:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ordered medium plates. Carrier is medium LBT-6094A. 30 days left to return. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 12:22:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ended up calling and they rejected the latest batch, so things are running behind. I'll give it a couple more weeks and then I'll have to move on to something else. I just wanted to let you know we do truly care and are upset about it. So much so that 2 of our managment team went to one of our material suppliers and had a talk because of this and other reasons. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 2:11:41 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an RMA employee I check up on this thread every couple of days. It really does pain us that we had to reject our last batch because it didnt meet our quality standards. We know it usually doesnt matter to the customer because they just want what they ordered, which is how I am with most things I order from places. I just wanted to let you know we do truly care and are upset about it. So much so that 2 of our managment team went to one of our material suppliers and had a talk because of this and other reasons. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 4:22:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an RMA employee I check up on this thread every couple of days. It really does pain us that we had to reject our last batch because it didnt meet our quality standards. We know it usually doesnt matter to the customer because they just want what they ordered, which is how I am with most things I order from places. I just wanted to let you know we do truly care and are upset about it. So much so that 2 of our managment team went to one of our material suppliers and had a talk because of this and other reasons. |
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Posted: 5/20/2019 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I completely understand, but to have issues on an already pretty far out build time is, well, not good. I probably just need to go ahead and cancel at this point to make sure I get my money back for my carrier at LBTC. Unless you think the plates will be shipped in the next couple of weeks... |
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Posted: 5/20/2019 12:08:00 PM EDT
[#44]
@Cclark0719 Thanks a ton for the updates. I'll hang in there and see how things play out. I will say when I called in the woman offered to refund the shipping charges, which again is much appreciated. Thanks again for the response.
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Posted: 5/21/2019 1:27:54 AM EDT
[#45]
I'm in the market for plates, if these are good I think I'll pick some up. I was already browsing RMA's site before I came across this thread, and being a n00b I almost ordered the level IV plates. Nice price but heavy. I'm a little confused by their site, which plate do you order for the rear? Are they interchangeable and you just order two? I'm new to all this armor plate stuff.
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Posted: 5/21/2019 2:52:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm in the market for plates, if these are good I think I'll pick some up. I was already browsing RMA's site before I came across this thread, and being a n00b I almost ordered the level IV plates. Nice price but heavy. I'm a little confused by their site, which plate do you order for the rear? Are they interchangeable and you just order two? I'm new to all this armor plate stuff. ETA: To answer your question they are interchangeable. It doesn't matter which goes in the front or rear. If it's a set of the same model/size. |
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Posted: 5/21/2019 10:34:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just buy two of the same exact plate. A small amount of people run a different cut or size in the rear but you would be be best suited to buy a set of two. RMA makes great plates at an amazing price. Look up Buffmans videos on YouTube shooting RMA plates. ETA: To answer your question they are interchangeable. It doesn't matter which goes in the front or rear. If it's a set of the same model/size. |
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Posted: 5/22/2019 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Cclark0719 Thanks a ton for the updates. I'll hang in there and see how things play out. I will say when I called in the woman offered to refund the shipping charges, which again is much appreciated. Thanks again for the response. 
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Posted: 5/22/2019 2:06:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Do you have sizing guidelines somewhere? I'm tall but thin. I saw some reference to measuring distance between nipples, I'm at 9".
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Posted: 5/22/2019 2:19:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have sizing guidelines somewhere? I'm tall but thin. I saw some reference to measuring distance between nipples, I'm at 9". |
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