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Posted: 2/4/2018 11:48:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Welcome to combat arms.
You kind of get used to the weight and general discomfort. If you wear it long enough it feels wierd when you take it off. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 12:06:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Armor sucks regardless but it sucks more if it’s heavier than needed and you are out of shape. And it sucks more the first few times you wear it until you get use to it. Few people hate working out more than me but I do it because it’s necessary (and need more than I do). Discipline has to be developed.
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Posted: 2/5/2018 12:07:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not DevL but he uses Hesco 3610s. I like those and high com makes a guardian 3 series that's equivalent and is cheaper with all the 20% codes they have. Remember the reason level IV plates are often so cheap is because they only have to stop 1 M2 round. Level III plates have to stop several M80 rounds. Look for a plate that's boron carbide and UHMWPE composite that's the most expensive way to make a plate but it's the lightest weight. Supposedly There's a new way to make unidirectional PE that improves the molecular allignment enough to stop M855 out of 16 and 18in barrels. When that makes it to the market that's what to go with. A medium SAPI is over 8.5 pounds. Steel armor of the same size/cut is 9 pounds. There's not much weight difference between steel and the common cheap ceramic plates. Highcom makes a 3++ stand alone that is 6 pounds in a medium SAPI cut. $390 each if you can get them 20% off. I think this is the plate referenced above. Highcom 3S9M Bottom line, get in shape and get used to wearing it. I used to sprint wherever I needed to go (within a few hundred meters) wearing my IOTV/SAPIs, rifle, and assault pack. It got me winded, but wasn't that bad. I think I'd keel over and die if I did that now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 2:59:02 AM EDT
[#4]
To put it down n Army and Marine Corps parlance:
Shit’s heavy. Carry your weight and dont be a bitch. A good chunk of us in this thread have worn all four plates (in an actual vest, not a plate carrier) plus combat load with frags, 2-4L water, a helmet, assault pack, and more for literally days on end in temperatures exceeding 115, have gone on foot patrols, raided buildings, chased guys, crossed (literal) shit canals, and wrestled guys dressed in tracksuits to the ground all while wearing a 35-40lb+vest. Your complaints are falling on deaf ears, and now is the time you get to decide wether this tactical gear is for cosplay or if you are serious about prepping for a worst case scenario. Wear it enough and you barely notice it’s there. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 8:34:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Again more interesting replies. After all the tough love advice of get in shape, I think you now know what you need to do. In the meantime, I would concentrate on what I can do NOW, versus what I want to do later. If all that shit is too heavy to fight in, realistically, then you need to consider whether to shit-can the armor until you can fight in it. If you start now with a good training program it might be several months before you see any results. So I would figure out what I can fight in, right now, and then upgrade as you're able.
I think 25 lbs is a good goal for fighting loadout, another 25 lbs for sustainment, so all up, yeah, around 55 lbs. I think any heavier than that is unrealistic for most folks. Someone mentioned times. A 6:30 min/mile under load is Olympic stud territory. I think that gives you the wrong impression for what to realistically shoot for. I would start with a unloaded run program, with a goal of getting to 10 min/miles, then maybe 9 min/miles. After a solid base of this (you could take 6 months or more), then add in the weight. If you can do 12 min/mile with 25 lbs, you're doing good. If you can do 15 min/miles with 35-40 lbs, you're doing good. I would not run with over say 30 lbs. I would then "Tab", "hump", Yomp", whatever you want to call it, at a fast hiking (walking) pace. You need to be careful here, as it is easy to blow out your knees with too much weight. A slow, incremental program works best. I know it's easy say, hard to do. But I think when you jock up with armor, as someone mentioned, it separates the boys from the men. I think you're response is typical, and really funny, because it illustrates the point that most of what you read on line is pure bullshit because the vast majority of guys are not out there seriously training with this shit. If you decide to do so, you will be joining a very small minority. But it's good company. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 9:14:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, the plates with ceramic strike face with UHMWPE backing offer a good mix of weight and protection. They are supposed to stop M855, while the all UHMWPE plates will not. There are a bit more expensive though. A medium SAPI is over 8.5 pounds. Steel armor of the same size/cut is 9 pounds. There's not much weight difference between steel and the common cheap ceramic plates. Highcom makes a 3++ stand alone that is 6 pounds in a medium SAPI cut. $390 each if you can get them 20% off. I think this is the plate referenced above. Highcom 3S9M Bottom line, get in shape and get used to wearing it. I used to sprint wherever I needed to go (within a few hundred meters) wearing my IOTV/SAPIs, rifle, and assault pack. It got me winded, but wasn't that bad. I think I'd keel over and die if I did that now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 9:32:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If your suckin Butter milk now.... https://i.imgur.com/PrkXVwa.jpg Wait til you hit your 50's....  Exercise harder. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 10:31:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Had some plates from a group buy around 8 or so years ago that was going to be the beginning of an active shooter kit to keep in the trunk of my patrol car. 2 years later, I’m out of LE and they ended up in the top of a closet.
Got a wild hair last month to do something with them. Bought an esstac daedon. Put it together yesterday. Kinda had the same feeling as OP. The weight wasn’t really a issue as much as felt bulk. I used to wear level II soft armor under my class A uniform as well as a heavy leather duty belt. This was different. It also made me realize how much weight I’ve gained looking at it on in the mirror. I tried to shoulder a recently built carbine and it was...awkward. Stock ended up on the outside of my shoulder instead of in the “pocket” above the armpit I’m used to. I definitely need to work with it. Maybe look at shooters cut for the front plate. I thought that’s what I had but maybe not. Wake up call time. Guess it’s time to exercise! |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 3:26:24 PM EDT
[#9]
You get used to it.
Like others said, go for walks/jogs/runs with it on every few days. Itll get better and you’ll get less fat. It’s win win. Also side plates suck |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 4:02:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had some plates from a group buy around 8 or so years ago that was going to be the beginning of an active shooter kit to keep in the trunk of my patrol car. 2 years later, I'm out of LE and they ended up in the top of a closet. Got a wild hair last month to do something with them. Bought an esstac daedon. Put it together yesterday. Kinda had the same feeling as OP. The weight wasn't really a issue as much as felt bulk. I used to wear level II soft armor under my class A uniform as well as a heavy leather duty belt. This was different. It also made me realize how much weight I've gained looking at it on in the mirror. I tried to shoulder a recently built carbine and it was...awkward. Stock ended up on the outside of my shoulder instead of in the "pocket" above the armpit I'm used to. I definitely need to work with it. Maybe look at shooters cut for the front plate. I thought that's what I had but maybe not. Wake up call time. Guess it's time to exercise! A more steeply cut option is swimmers cut plates. This usually a pretty steep/extreme cut on the top corners. You lose coverage but gain some mobility and it may help with shouldering a rifle. I wear 8x10 shooters cut plates and can't shoulder a rifle how I normally would without plates, the bottom of the stock will rest on the edge of the plate. You usually have to adjust your shouldering position outward slightly and angle/twist the rifle a bit to make it clear the plate. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 4:27:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 4:31:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A medium SAPI weighs 4 pounds, a set of them weighs 8. A single steel plate of the same size weighs about 9 pounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yep, the plates with ceramic strike face with UHMWPE backing offer a good mix of weight and protection. They are supposed to stop M855, while the all UHMWPE plates will not. There are a bit more expensive though. A medium SAPI is over 8.5 pounds. Steel armor of the same size/cut is 9 pounds. There's not much weight difference between steel and the common cheap ceramic plates. Highcom makes a 3++ stand alone that is 6 pounds in a medium SAPI cut. $390 each if you can get them 20% off. I think this is the plate referenced above. Highcom 3S9M Bottom line, get in shape and get used to wearing it. I used to sprint wherever I needed to go (within a few hundred meters) wearing my IOTV/SAPIs, rifle, and assault pack. It got me winded, but wasn't that bad. I think I'd keel over and die if I did that now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 4:56:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Soldier-ing is a young mans sport...
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Posted: 2/5/2018 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#14]
I`m 64 and wear ceramic plates around my shop, on the tractor, in the truck and just in general everywhere a couple of days a week. I can`t run anymore anyway so I just tried to put them to use so that if I did truly need to wear them it would not be an issue. Where we live there`s virtually no chance of being invaded anyway. They were kind of heavy at first but now it`s more the bulk that gets in my way. I wear them while working on the radial arm saw for example and they slow me down a bit (good thing) but don`t really bother me while using smaller tools.
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Posted: 2/5/2018 10:11:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You get used to it. Like others said, go for walks/jogs/runs with it on every few days. Itll get better and you’ll get less fat. It’s win win. Also side plates suck |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 10:29:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Welcome to combat arms. You kind of get used to the weight and general discomfort. If you wear it long enough it feels wierd when you take it off. Feels like you are moving when you aern't. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 10:46:34 PM EDT
[#17]
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Hesco if you can afford it, Armorwear nylon covered (not vinyl covered) if you can't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 10:48:39 PM EDT
[#18]
wear it more. It doesnt get easier. I just want you to suffer.
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Posted: 2/5/2018 11:20:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 2:14:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, you're right. I just looked at the weight of the 4SAS7 and other cheap level 4 plates people often buy, they are listed at around 8.5 pounds each. Thought they were the same, apparently not. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 6:12:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Only advantage is they stop more. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 8:11:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. They're still around. BulletProofMe sells their III+ plates in multiple sizes and their Facebook has posts in September of 2017 stating they just hired more people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 9:38:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I must have looked at the wrong one. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 1:24:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Protip: Get size small or extra small. They weigh less, and you'll be able to move more freely.
Also, don't wear plates if there is a low probability of being shot, they are heavy. Lastly, your joints have limited wear and tear, don't workout in plates. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 2:47:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, that's their plates. No codes or anything like that as far as I know. BulletProofMe only does orders by phone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What level 3+ plates do you recommend? @DevL Thanks! Looks like Armour Wear may be out of business. Their website is gone. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER I still have to save my pennies, but those are definitely on the short list. 
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Posted: 2/6/2018 3:26:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I must have looked at the wrong one. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 10:15:20 PM EDT
[#27]
I got issued a pair of velocity hard plates. Super thin, super light, but super pricy if you're buying them. They have lightened the load a lot.
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Posted: 2/6/2018 11:02:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are Dynoc covered (vinyl) and I have a pair. The covering is less able to hold together for multiple hits vs standard nylon. You need the plate bag to hold the ceramic tightly in place after the first hit to maintain integrity. Plus the edging is a little sloppy looking. They dont make Dynoc covering anymore. Went on big discount once the normal nylon covered went into production on armorwear website. The vacuum forming they do is a little sloppy on the last half inch but the Aluminum oxide plate is fully to the edge. Those were an Italian AlO over UHMWPE and Kevlar. Special threat tested but not NIJ certified when I bought em. Hesco is better made in every way and NIJ certified (mandatory for LE grant money) but does not stop any more threats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I must have looked at the wrong one. Are these their plates? Are there any discount codes like what I have for High Com? @CAKEPWNER 
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Posted: 2/7/2018 1:00:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Lol.
I wear a PC loaded with plates, pouches. Ammo, and all kinds of other stuff. Then a helmet, gun, radio, and water along with it. Then I get to toss on a nice hefty pack every night that runs between 50-80lbs. I do this almost every day right now, have been for many years. Not only that, but I have to move long distances with it, climb walls and canals, and be able to take a knee and get back up a hundred times a night. It's definitely possible, but its some thing you have to train for....which is what I do. |
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Posted: 2/7/2018 4:30:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Training. That's all. I always squatted heavy, but for cardio I trained mostly with sprints in my gear, and any run and gun courses I gave it my all moving from station to station By the time I tried out a mile I was just under an 8 minute mile with 30lbs. Eventually got it down 6:30 but I wanted to die. I lost that endurance really quickly. I was seriously obsessed with being a "super soldier" in the past and I cannot do that now. |
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Posted: 2/8/2018 8:23:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Unless there is an injury involved running is not likely to cause osteoarthritis.
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Posted: 2/9/2018 4:46:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Y
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless there is an injury involved running is not likely to cause osteoarthritis. |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 10:25:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
YRunning with weight on repeatedly over time most certainly will. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Y Quoted:
Unless there is an injury involved running is not likely to cause osteoarthritis. Not all sore joints equal osteoarthritis. Most knee pain in runners is caused by patello-femoral dysfunction, caused by abnormal tracking of the kneecap which is caused by bad form, accidents, etc. Proper form keeps a lot of pain from forming but is hard to maintain after injuries. I'm more concerned about ligament damage from injury. |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 10:42:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Fwiw, long distance running with 200lbs is not what I'm talking about. If you're 5'6" and weigh 300lbs maybe you should hold off adding anymore weight to your runs but if you can run 5-10 miles I'll assume the person is in decent shape. Even at 210 lbs I can add my 12lb plate carrier and be under the weight I used to run 10 mile races at. If it is worked up to, while using good form adding 10-20lbs of armor is no different than adding a similar amount of body weight.
Knees and running Medical journal Another one |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 12:09:42 PM EDT
[#35]
I regularly work with PHD's that say otherwise but I'm not arguing it in a tech forum.
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Posted: 2/9/2018 12:33:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Running even 8 minute miles with 30lbs on is the lead in to how you got major arthritis in your hips and legs 10 years later.
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Posted: 2/9/2018 12:40:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Lol OP. The reality of rifle plates is that they are very mission specific. There is a balance between running light enough to have sufficient field endurance and mobility to not get shot in the first place and the ballistic benefit of armor. My suggestion is to be the best you can be ( based on age, genetics, etc) and then evaluate how you can realistically use hard armor for actual situations you might find yourself in. You may just find that hard armor is great for overwatch type use but not so great for a hot weather 10 mile patrol in rugged terrain.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:07:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Work out in PT gear. Train to the task in kit. PT should be done as safely as possible - think sports medicine. Working out in kit just wrecks your body. Don't workout in a PC - do train in one. I hope the difference is apparent.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 2:33:26 AM EDT
[#39]
An out of shape guy wearing a plate carrier is like a lifted 2WD truck with mud tires.
Use the PC as inspiration to get in shape. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:34:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An out of shape guy wearing a plate carrier is like a lifted 2WD truck with mud tires. Use the PC as inspiration to get in shape. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 3:51:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I regularly work with PHD's that say otherwise but I'm not arguing it in a tech forum. Quoted:
Work out in PT gear. Train to the task in kit. PT should be done as safely as possible - think sports medicine. Working out in kit just wrecks your body. Don't workout in a PC - do train in one. I hope the difference is apparent. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 9:16:36 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm, guess I don't work with any phds in the sports medicine field Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm, guess I don't work with any phds in the sports medicine field Quoted:
Work out in PT gear. Train to the task in kit. PT should be done as safely as possible - think sports medicine. Working out in kit just wrecks your body. Don't workout in a PC - do train in one. I hope the difference is apparent. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 10:05:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Every single long distance runner I know has knee and hip problems later in life.
Every single one. My wife use to run marathons. Almost every single guy I know who was in the military has knee and hip (and other non related) problems. That isn’t a coincidence. Abuse your body long enough with or without extra weight and it’ll take its toll. Take it from someone who has medical problems. It’s all fun and games and you think youre Superman......until you're not. Reality sucks. Almost any activity that is done too much will tear you up. That’s fact. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 10:20:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't care. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Hmm, guess I don't work with any phds in the sports medicine field |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 10:23:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every single long distance runner I know has knee and hip problems later in life. Every single one. My wife use to run marathons. Almost every single guy I know who was in the military has knee and hip (and other non related) problems. That isn’t a coincidence. Abuse your body long enough with or without extra weight and it’ll take its toll. Take it from someone who has medical problems. It’s all fun and games and you think youre Superman......until you're not. Reality sucks. Almost any activity that is done too much will tear you up. That’s fact. I was specifically speaking of the pathophysiology of osteoarthritis and that every modern study shows running does not cause it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:58:37 AM EDT
[#46]
You curiously seem to keep omitting the "with 30+ pounds" to the "running" part of the discussion.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:34:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You curiously seem to keep omitting the "with 30+ pounds" to the "running" part of the discussion. The studies I posted did not include the weight of the runners. They did not differentiate between 150lbs runners and 200lbs runners. So if that 150lbs runner put 30lbs on, he would still weigh less than the 200lbs runner. Is a 200lbs runner going to get arthitis but not the lighter one? My point is that arthritis isn't caused by running no matter the weight. Other injuries very well may happen though. Which is why one should be careful and progress slowly with distance, speed, and weight. I'm also a big fan of plan old SAPI plates in a slick carrier that weighs 12lbs, manly because I'm getting lazy. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 5:30:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Nevermind...I'm done with you.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:09:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nevermind...I'm done with you. Thanks for the evidence to backup your assertion made in tech. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 6:17:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Anyways, OP, it is very possible for you to be functional in armor....even without doing dumb nonsense like running in it. Lots of us do it on the regular. Granted I've spent the past 12 years wearing it all the time, but I started somewhere.
This was my last trip, before I got on the bird I weighed in on the scale at almost 350lbs. I weighed 215 at the time. It sucks, but its possible. Wearing just my PC loaded out here every day is pretty much the equivalent of putting on a suit and tie for a businessman. Not the most comfortable thing in the world but I'm used to it. 
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