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Posted: 12/5/2005 8:27:46 AM EDT
When you guys are changing magazines, where do you put your empties? I'm assuming you don't just let them drop to the ground and then leave them there.

I've got an HSGI Drop Leg double mag holder (double as in two groups of three mags), so the left leg is out for a dump pouch, and it would be kind of awkward to put it on my right left and have to switch hands to put the empty in there, then switch again to get a full out of the drop leg. It also seems kinda wierd to have to pull a magazine out, then put the empty back in where that came from. Just the motions involved. Although I'm sure it would become easier with practice.

So what am I to do?
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:39:22 AM EDT
Sounds like you've painted yourself into a corner.

I'm not exactly familiar with your left-leg mag pouch setup in particular, but what about the dump pouch hanging behind it, at about 8 O'clock on your belt?
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:49:50 AM EDT
Yeah, corners seem to be a thing I do.

Dump pouch on the belt seems like it might work. I'll have to give that one a try.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:51:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:55:12 AM EDT
Uhhh...

If I were actually taking heavy fire, my mags would hit the dirt.

Otherwise If I'm in a training scenario or reloading from cover they go back in the mag pouch.

I borrow the method that the Marines use. "Brass to the grass" for a loaded mag, then feed lips up when you put it back into the pouch. That way you can feel, without looking, for a loaded mag.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 9:00:53 AM EDT
Well obviously if somebody is shooting at me, I'm not going to care so much about a $20 magazine. Thankfully, nobody shoots at me.

I was looking at the Maxpedition pouch a few minutes ago. I'll definately check it out.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 9:34:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 9:40:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:08:38 AM EDT

If using my LBE, they go back in the pouch with the follower facing up.

If using my Eagle vest, thye go in my dump pouch (Maxpedition) located about 8 o'clock.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:12:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2005 12:42:15 PM EDT by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:41:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
saving my mags is the last thing on my mind.



I have to go shooting with this guy!
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 12:42:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:12:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
saving my mags is the last thing on my mind.



I have to go shooting with this guy!

At the range it goes in my pocket or back on the table.



Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:25:12 PM EDT
I use either a dump pouch like the fine ME or other product located in the same spot. For many years though I used my thigh pocket on BDU's, but if you are using the HSGI this is out. Looks like Dump pouch is your ticket. Put it where it seems comfortable to you.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 4:09:21 PM EDT
rolly polly works great on the belt
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 9:56:13 PM EDT
An empty mag isnt doing anything to save my life; it goes on the ground
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:18:55 PM EDT
Typically into my BDU cargo pocket or tucked into the back of my pants.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:32:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
An empty mag isnt doing anything to save my life; it goes on the ground



But then you have to refinish it and bake it in your oven!


Link Posted: 12/6/2005 5:01:29 AM EDT
The instructors at Blackwater said that if at all possible, retain your spent magazines. The reasoning was that when you are in a forward area, magazines are not normally part of the ammo re-supply. Having said that, they also said that mag retention is applicable only when time allows, otherwise, pick them up after the fight.

As to where to put them, that is as individual a thing as everything else. However, if you decide to retain mags, do not mix partially empty mags with completely empty ones, especially if they are dumped in a pouch or bag. I magine yourself in a firefight and you are out of topped-off mags; you will have to start grabbing the partially empty ones for use. Nothing like that sick feeling you'll get in the middle of a fight when the bad guys are advancing as you blindly sift thru the dump pouch, frantically looking for a mag with some ammo left in it.

As others have suggested, partials go "bullets up" back into the mag carrier and empties get placed somewhere else.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:35:01 AM EDT
Agreed, If someones shooting back Im more worried about sphincter retention than mag retention,.. But I find a Medium Rolypoly on my belt at the 7oclock postion works well at the range or training...Udog
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:41:43 AM EDT
For those that are throwing their empties on the ground becuase they're being shot at, when was the last time you got shot at?
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:56:50 AM EDT
I think that is just the mind set. I dont have to be shot at to know that I would dump spent mags on the ground. When I train I baby em and put them in a pocket or on a bench. I have enough mags to not worry about dinging one up.

By the same token, I cary roughly 13 mags on my service rig. I do this becsue I SUCK at pugil sticks, and would likewise not trust my life to my bayonete fighting skills. Do I have to get in a knife fight to know that I would rather keep shooting?
And no one has ever given me a hard time about carring more ammo
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 11:24:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 11:27:26 AM EDT by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 2:04:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 2:06:20 PM EDT by Harv24]
Heres my Take
For range time or classes I run a Mag Dump pouch so I can retain partial and empty mags that are changed during a tac reload. But I also Drop Mags on the deck in classes if the situation calls for it (Emergency reload)

This technique I would follow as well if I were in a enviroment such as a Military op/SHTF, etc

To the average Joe Shit the rag man who's out on the range punching paper, the thought of Any kind of mag retention is most likely not even thought off. he simply pulls it out and sets it on a range bench,etc and pops in another. or stops, reloads the one he just pulled out and reuses it.

If your the kinda of shooter who takes his shooting/Practice /training to a little higher or more serious level, then you will be using one of the above described techniques.

The key word is technique You need to know and understand what scenario/situation calls for Mag retention and which one does not. And that is why you train. so you know and understand the difference and practice doing both techniques.. just my $.02
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 2:32:17 PM EDT
on the ground
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 2:58:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:24:37 PM EDT
empies go to the deck, mags with ammo go in cordura back-up staging area(dump pouch) of some form or the other.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:25:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bjwar10:
If using my LBE, they go back in the pouch with the follower facing up.




that's called a "dead man's magazine"
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:50:44 PM EDT
back in the pouch if the drill requires retention or on the ground for speed
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:28:57 PM EDT
Always on the ground - train that way. Pick up empties later.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:27:50 AM EDT
I like the TAG Dump Pouch at about 8 o'clock. I'd put a half loaded mag back in the mag pouches, reorganizing them. If I don't have time to do this, I probably don't have time to reload and should just empty the mag anyway.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
down the front of my jacket



You zoomed em, man! Any shielding I can get is a good thing!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:55:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Uhhh...

If I were actually taking heavy fire, my mags would hit the dirt.

Otherwise If I'm in a training scenario or reloading from cover they go back in the mag pouch.

I borrow the method that the Marines use. "Brass to the grass" for a loaded mag, then feed lips up when you put it back into the pouch. That way you can feel, without looking, for a loaded mag.



+1
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:57:40 PM EDT
I always let them hit the dirt, every time.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:59:01 AM EDT
I carry an odd number of magazines and an even number of pouches. Always 1 more pouch than mags. Since an AK's mag won't freefall I can't do that, so I just stuff it in the empty spot and grab the one next to it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:11:53 PM EDT
In the dirt.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:24:31 AM EDT
If I have a second, I stuff them into my shirt to keep them.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:29:28 AM EDT
I train the way I intend to play. Mags hit the ground.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:48:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By moosemcnally:
I train the way I intend to play. Mags hit the ground.



Same here. Empties on the ground. Tac reloads go back in the vest's pouch with the remaining bullets facing up. That way I know which is a full mag and which is not.


Train the way you want to fight.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:00:56 PM EDT
On the deck.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:07:19 PM EDT
For speed reloads (whether in competition, training, practice (haha!), tense social situations), they mag goes wherever it drops. I don't look and I don't care until I have time to worry about it.

For administrative reloads (which included so-called "tactical reloads"), they go either in a pocket or in my Roly Poly (which I wear on the front over my belt buckle like a kangaroo pouch) if I'm wearing it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:59:11 AM EDT
If I'm just target shooting, I baby them. But if I'm doing anything close to practicing, they go right to the ground. The last thing in the world I want to do is develop a habit of screwing around with empty mags. That's the kind of thing that becomes muscle memory and you start doing without thinking about it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:15:05 PM EDT
On the deck. Win the fight-pick up the empties.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:25:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPDSNYPR:
Always on the ground - train that way. Pick up empties later.



Definitely!! When training, all spent mags hit the deck. If you retain your partials and empties, and have to tac-reload, you might be grabbing at an empty mag.....Then it's your ass. Also,considering the muscle memory principle. If you train to take your mags from your weapon, and place them somewhere, then you may just revert to this when seconds count and your life is on the line. In a gunfight, speed matters. Mags are cheap, my life is not.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:06:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:22:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By theWalrus:
Well obviously if somebody is shooting at me, I'm not going to care so much about a $20 magazine. Thankfully, nobody shoots at me.

You'll fight like you train. Lots of stories about Police officers having a shirt pocket with 6 empties in it following a shoot-out.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:11:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:
saving my mags is the last thing on my mind.



Till you don't have any mags left then you have a HSLD club you can single load.

It would depend on the conditions where your fighting at. Try and find the emptys if you're in deep mud or snow or water, ain't gonna happen. If you're in a fighting postion/ foxhole dump them pick them up latter. When I humped a M14 we had 5 mags each the rest of our ammo was in stripper clips/ bandoleers.

That said if I have to dump it/ speed reload its going down. That was the good thing about the M1 garand, you didn't care where the empty clip went.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:53:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:
You'll fight like you train. Lots of stories about Police officers having a shirt pocket with 6 empties in it following a shoot-out.


That's exactly what I was thinking when I read the post on the first page where they guy says "I dont have to be shot at to know that I would dump spent mags on the ground. When I train I baby em and put them in a pocket or on a bench." I bet he has a mag in his pocket at the end of the firefight.


Here's one place where I think the different tactical situations of police vs. military makes a big difference in the "proper" technique.

For an officer using a carbine he's likely to be:
1. alone, with nobody to provide covering fire (if the rules of engagement even allow that)
2. in a short-term fight where he'll have a chance to go back and pick up the magazines
3. backed-up by a partner arriving with loaded magazines, and probably not a box of rounds

This points towards dropping the mags on the ground to save every last bit of time. Partial mags should be retained, just in case, but should probably not go back into the carriers. Maybe if you use mag-puls, but I could see someone going for a new mag and getting an upside-down one and trying to get that to lock in.

In a miltary situation I think you have count on not getting new mags, so it's a tactical necessity to retain the old ones. Fortunately you're likely to have other team members to cover you for that extra second while you reload. And you're more likely to be behind some sort of cover or at least prone to reduce exposure while doing it.

Civilians will have to evaluate whether they're training for a short-term fight with a criminal that they can pick up after (like the police) or a roving SHTF "patrol" where they'll have to conserve equipment because they might not get back for a while (like the military).
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:12:57 AM EDT
I was thinking about getting the Mega RollyPolly for this in the future, does anyone else use one for this purpose?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:24:31 PM EDT
on the ground
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:36:23 AM EDT
+1 Mike L. keep an empty SAW pouch on your belt for empties. ive seen guys use cargo pockets, or their bdu top-tuck it in. i dont know who gets ammo cans full of loaded mags. all we got was cases of ammo. never leave equipment, especially that you will need later.
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