Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/24/2003 11:24:01 PM EDT
I've been using nothing but Blackhawk gear for years, because I haven't known any better. I was just never exposed to any other tactical gear. Now, reading these boards, I hear about how lots of people prefer Eagle over BH and the "age old arguments" and shit.

What I want to know is, where can I find some of these comparisons? Why is it that some people prefer Eagle?

What do you prefer?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:40:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 8:31:11 AM EDT
Just depends on what your needs are. I have BHI "load out" bags I use to haul stuff around but I find I prefer an Eagle vest because of the fit. I have a couple different BHI bags I use for various things.

I also like my Arktis rig since the pouches hold AK/AR/G3 mags..makes it handy to change weapons as I wish. Is it "better" than my Eagle vest? Not really..just offers something different.

As far as a new vest, I'll end up getting an SOE set-up soon Variety is GOOD!

Link Posted: 9/7/2003 10:25:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2003 10:26:59 PM EDT by danonly]
If i could hijack this thread for a day or so,


nevermind
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 3:07:47 PM EDT
If you really want to see what else is out there, go over to lightfighters gear forum and read up. If BH is all you have ever used it will really OPEN your eyes.


www.cqbsolutions.com
Best slings and service out there.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:32:05 AM EDT

Many people have a real beef with Blackhawk becuase of their 'similarity' to other brands' propietary designs


Not only does BHI imitates other manufacturer's designs, they almost took on their name:
Eagle Industries.....Black Hawk Industires.
birds + industires????? See the similarity????
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:07:54 PM EDT
Just in the intrest of being fair. There are several Asian gear makers that are ripping off Blackhawk as well.

If you don't believe me. Go over to ASPItactical.com and check out their Tac Force line, Take a gander at their double rifle case and discreat carry cases, for roughly half the price of Blackhawk.

Blackhawk did not invent the gear design, rip off game, but simply does what is needed to survive in a very compeditive global market.

The fact is, that there are only so many human ergonomic places on the front of a vest, that you can put mag and gear pouches, that make sense, so I don't particularly, think that Eagle really has any propriatary claim that "the mag pouches go low on the front of the vest and the gear pouches go somewhere above" as a really revolutionary and new idea, worthy of brand protectionism.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 8:03:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fearandloathing37:
The fact is, that there are only so many human ergonomic places on the front of a vest, that you can put mag and gear pouches, that make sense, so I don't particularly, think that Eagle really has any propriatary claim that "the mag pouches go low on the front of the vest and the gear pouches go somewhere above" as a really revolutionary and new idea, worthy of brand protectionism.



You're really missing the point here. The fact that you can look at vest designs from Eagle, HSGI, SOE, TT, etc. and tell that they are not from the same manufacturer means that there are different ways of doing things. More to the point, even if the pouches are in the same locations there is still a great deal of variation in the design of the pouches themselves, and that's the big area where Blackhawk has been less than original.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:56:09 PM EDT
You hang around the gear forums long enough, and it begins to sound like a bunch of upper west side kept women, trying to one up each other on who's wearing Versaci or Vera Wang this season.

As for the question of original thought regarding vests and pouches, well, people have been coming up with LBS, ever since man decided he needed a way to carry rocks and mag pouches came shortly after the invention of the magazine fed weapon. The only difference being now days we have velcro, better elastics and nylon webbing is a heck of a lot more readily at hand.

As for design, there is really not a whole lot new under the sun and the sewing skills required to make pouches, have not changed a whole heck of a lot, from the time back in WWII, when the nice little old lady down the street sat behind her big honking cast iron Singer and turned out Ranger vests for the boys over seas. (In fact the nice little old lady just might have turned out better quality stich.)

You would also have a hard time convincing me, that the little gal sewing Blackhawk in Saigon, or where ever, is inherently doing shoddier work, just because she's Vietnamese. If the Gal sewing Eagle, here in the USA, screws up and loses her job, She goes on workmans comp. If the Gal in Vietnam sewing the Blackhawk screws up and loses her job, her family goes back to the rice paddy. Working for Blackhawk is probably a pretty good job, in the workers paradise of Vietnam.

Hmmm, lets see, which gal is more motivated to get the stich right?

Whoop...Oh no, the little old lady, war worker from down the street is going to sue Eagle for ripping off the design she used nearly fifty years ago, for the Ranger vests!!!

Frankly, the fact that modern gear outfitters, have the guts to use the words pouches and tecnology in the same sentence, is a testament to modern marketing and our own generational vanity.

I have this vision, in my mind, of two, high speed low drag, Special Operators, sitting in a tent in the Stan, talking in lisps, saying, "Did you see that silly bitch john the other day, he was wearing his black Eagle vest after march first, What a fashion loser, everybody knows you don't wear black out of season, And those awful Navy seals, Well let me tell you honey, I never saw a seal that knew how to properly accessorize. Pleeze deary, don't tell me, that guy is going to wear that HSG vest on the raid...It makes his hips look big"

I mean thats the point some of you guys have gotten to, It's not a vest anymore...It's a fashion statement.

Link Posted: 9/14/2003 7:31:31 AM EDT
F&L37,

I think you might be going a bit far. Sure, we expound on gear everyday over at LF. And we love it!!! That is what we are intersted in. Our wives/girlfriends know, we know it, so that's life... Most of the guys at LF have a very sincere and keen interest in gear because it helps them to live another day.

And, now, more than ever, is a gear-head's dream. We have a good number of really knowledgeable people turning out high speed gear. There are numerous choices out there.

We value each other's opinions because of experinces, and what they teach us about gear. It's just like here at AR15.com. Everyone here sits around and expounds on the AR/M4 all day long. Do you have a problem with that???

Hey man, if you don't like it, get off the forums....

But don't bust our balls about what we choose to talk about.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 10:48:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fearandloathing37:
As for design, there is really not a whole lot new under the sun

An AR15 from 30 years ago isn't much different from an AR15 made today but we seem to find a lot to talk about on the rest of this site, don't we?


(In fact the nice little old lady just might have turned out better quality stich.)
If you think that there is nothing involved with turning out good gear than a nice tight stitch then I have to question whether or not you're qualified to have an opinion on this subject.


Hmmm, lets see, which gal is more motivated to get the stich right?
It doesn't matter how good the stitch is if they are using substandard thread and cheap Nytanon crap instead of Cordura. Or crappy Chinese-made hardware instead of good quality Fastex buckles and YYK zippers.


Whoop...Oh no, the little old lady, war worker from down the street is going to sue Eagle for ripping off the design she used nearly fifty years ago, for the Ranger vests!!!
Granny didn't produce hydration bladders for the Rangers that hit Omaha beach, but Blackhawk did realease their Hydrastorm line after abrubtly ending their relationship with Camelbak. Coincidence?
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 12:42:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 1:00:36 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
McGrubbs, Do you really think for one minute, that a one inch diffence in where the velcro is placed on your mag pouch is going to allow you to live one more day, when the RPG rocket comes though the passenger door of your Hummer?

I belive that the statistics will bear me out, when I tell you, that almost no one, over in Iraq or Afghanistan, is getting killed because they could not get a new mag out of the pouch, one tenth of a second faster, with an Eagle vest as opposed to a Blackhawk.

This fine distinction, does not really seem to be an issue, with the REAL high speed types, who can be seen wearing both brands of vests and many others, in large numbers, over in Iraq and Afghanistan. No these subtle variations are usualy noted, only by internet gearphiles who wish to stroke thier own egos, by demonstration the depth of thier wallet as opposed to the depth of thier common sense.

I've spent quite a bit of time listening to old combat vets, from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. It's well worth your time, listening to these guys and you can glean a few lessons from thier stories of individual combat survival in wars that lasted quite a bit longer than Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom.

I have never heard one of these vets, tell me, that his buddy in the next fox hole got killed because he was wearing brand X LBE as opposed to brand Y LBE.

When you say that we have entered "The Golden Age of Geardom" You are quite right, never have their been so many gear related choices facing the individual infantryman. So much so, that we may well have entered the age of Gucci war. Where we, promote a false sense of security in our young men sent off to war. "If you just spend a hundred more dollars on a marginaly better vest, Your life will be spared".

Of course, once our young Infantryman actualy gets over there, he finds that, as I have already stated, "RPG rockets and command detonated, roadside mines, don't give a shit, what kind of vest you bought or how much you spent on it.

Vests and LBS, are usefull for comfortably carrying you "right now" Personal kit around and thats about it.

There are few things in this world more personaly discusting, to me, than a $60.000.00 a year computer geek sitting comfortably in his cubicle, writing WTF posts, over some posted pic, of an infantryman overseas, who picked up a cheap scope or piece of gear, in the hope of expanding his effectiveness or comfort in the field, with the limited funds he had availible at the time of deployment.

He did'nt buy Leupold or Eagle, Well Damn, Excuse the hell out the poor guy.

I don't have any problem with gearphiles, I'm one myself. What I have a problem with, is the class of people, I like to reffer to as the little gear snots, of which there are many, both over here at AR15.com and at LF as well.

You average gear snot, is a slave of the advertising age, and happily gobbles up ANY new item that crosses his computer monitor, as long as it meets the "well it costs more than the other guys, so it must be better test" Then of course he must post of his huge expenditure/sacrifice and write degrading stuff about others equipment, in the misguided belief that laying down more cash, has elevated him to the pinnacle of gunfighting deadlyness and that all the rest of us morons should lick his combat boots, as though he were the warrior equivalant of the second coming of Christ.

I think thats what bugs me the most about the Eagle vs Blackhawk debate. It seems not so much about Eagle or Blackhawk, but more about a handfull of gear snots, who pound their chests and tell us they are greater warriors, because they bought Eagle.

I read their posts and find it hard to belive, these guys are for real. It makes you want to, yell into you monitor "It's a vest stupid. Not a Talisman"



And now, as a little post script Mcgrubb. Allow me to address your "Hey man, if you don't like it, get off the forums" comment.

Your chances of chasing me off of here, with my 1400+ posts are pretty much effectively ZERO. If you don't like my opinions and observations regarding gear, feel free to crawl back over to LF, with your tail between your legs, where I'm sure there are several members, who will dry the tears from your eyes while telling you what a great warroir mindset you have and how much more deadly you are, than all those who are your inferior.

Look to the mod over there. Report to him with wide moist eyes and trembling lip. Tell them how mean and awful F&L37 over on AR was to you and that a great warrior such as yourself has never been subject before, to that level of scorn. point back here and tell 'em the bad man over there was not conviced that you were a combat god and did not tremble at every word of your post.

God it must be awful to be a member on LF and not have everyone you meet FEAR your power and prowess.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 1:24:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fearandloathing37:
I read their posts and find it hard to belive, these guys are for real. It makes you want to, yell into you monitor "It's a vest stupid. Not a Talisman"



You know something, you're absolutely right. In fact, I'm looking in my gun safe now and wondering why I needed to spend so much money on that Leupold scope or that Aimpoint Comp-M when I could have just bought a scope from Leapers or BEC. After all, "It's a scope stupid. Not a Talisman"
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 2:09:32 PM EDT
I think the point that was being made has been lost in the shuffle.

The basic "vest" has little variation from company to company. For the sake of marketing, "new" and "improved" features are rolled out each year to help sales. Sometimes the mods are worth the extra $$ you'll spend, other times it is a waste of money IMHO.

Personal preference takes center stage with gear sometimes just like it would w/ Bushmaster/Colt/Oly/DPMS rifles. Each brand has pro's and con's...depends on what you will be using the item for and what you choose to spend on that item.

I have seen what Fearandloathing37 said about this vest or that pack taking on almost mythical properties . Always pretty funny to me but to each their own.

Either way, this has turned in to a pretty decent thread showing both ends of the mighty gear debate!
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 2:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 2:44:34 PM EDT by mcgrubbs]
F&L37,



Link Posted: 9/14/2003 2:41:53 PM EDT
F&L37,

You've got a lot of anger built up don't you???

That's a shame.....

Oh and as for the great BHI vs. Eagle debate, I really only see one angle to it. BHI is made in Vietnam, Eagle is American made. End of story. That's the only way I can look at it, and it's not that great of a debate as you infer it is, at least not to me. I don't pound my chest exclaim about how I buy Eagle gear...why??? Mainly because I don't buy a whole lot of Eagle stuff. Usually, I prefer SOE.

And, even you should realize that I am not trying to "run you off the forums." Come on man, do what you want. It's the same old principle: If you don't like something, leave it alone, and usually it will leave you alone as well.

I mean, if everyone was as emotionally distraught as you seem to be, we were would be???

You seem to have a lot of "advice" for someone who doesn't care what people think.

By your reply to my post, I believe it is you who seems hurt by what I have said. It's quite obvious you cannot control your own emotions on something as simple as a internet forum...

And by the way, your 1400 posts are quite impressive to me. Why, I sit here basking in wonder of your keyboard commando prowess!!!!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!
Top Top