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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:46:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 8:41:34 AM EDT by unclemoak]
I went to try to shoot skeet today with my brother's 1187 and each time you load one shell in the chamber and one in the magazine then fire, the bolt locks back and won't feed the next shell. It acts like the magazine is empty for some reason. After taking it home and looking at it, it seems that the carrier isn't going down far enough to let the shell come out of the magazine which somehow causes the bolt to lock back. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix it?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:59:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 8:03:43 PM EDT by steveinct]
Is the second shell in the mag on the carrier, or still in the mag when the bolt locks back?

Also, are you shooting a standard, field grade 11-87? If you are, and if you are using target grade shotshells, there may not be enough port pressure to completely cycle the action.

When the 11-87 was introduced, it was intended to cycle 3" and 2-3/4" FIELD loads - - NOT 2-3/4"
target loads.

Special target guns for the 11-87 Premier Trap and Premier Skeet were offered with NON PRESSURE
COMPENSATED barrels for target loads. In essence, those models came with barrels that were 2-3/4" chamber only and had the older, 1100 2-3/4" chamber gas ports.

This is why Remington went BACK to the old 2-3/4" chambered, older 1100 style gas ports for their target guns after a ten year run of making 12 ga. 11-87s

I'd bet it's the ammo used with that particular barrel? Try firing some heavy field loads (on a range where it's permitted) and see if the gun cycles. If it does - and the malfunctions were experienced with light target loads, then you have your answer. Read the barrel: if it says "FOR 2-3/4" OR 3" SHELLS" then, you have one of the field grade barrels meant for 12 ga. 2-3/4" 3-1/4 dram equvialent MINIMUM. These barrels will often not cycle 2-3/4 dram eq. adn 3-dr. eq. target loads used for trap and skeet.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:23:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 8:41:16 AM EDT by unclemoak]
I know it's the premier model with a "30 light contour barrel. When you fire the weapon the bolt locks back and the shell is still in the mag, because it looks like its catching on the front of the carrier, so when you push the carrier down the shell comes out of the magazine, but the bolt remains locked open, but if instead of pushing down the carrier to let the shell come out of the magazine, you push the bolt release on the bottom of the gun, the shell flys out from the magazine underneath the carrier and onto the ground.

when you load the magazine and rack the bolt, this is what happens


The shell gets hung up on the carrier because it isn't going down far enough


Then when you push the bolt release the shell spits out the bottom


This is the trigger group



The circled part is not moving far enough back to allow the boxed part ( the back of the carrier) to slide up past it.



This is what should be happening, but you have to push the part back further with your finger to get it to work.



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:33:28 PM EDT
I would take out the trigger assy. and carefully press the carrier up and down see if it hanging up or something, it should stay together, but watch out. Also look at the little shell holder thingy that is held in with a snap ring.

I'm thinking trash or lack of lube.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:39:27 PM EDT
I tried that, and was looking at it while trying to pushing the carrier up, and there's a little tab that has to be pulling out of the carrier while it is cycling before it can move, and i'm wondering if the tab is maybe a hair to long.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:45:30 AM EDT
I added pictures to try to help explain what's happening
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:18:19 PM EDT
I think i know whats happening, now to explain it. I pulled my trigger group out my 1989 premier and noted that the little tab below your thumb (bottom pic) goes into the square hole that you are touching. On mine that is what locks your carrier in place, now see the little spring loaded schimitar/machete looking piece, i assume that when your bolt travels to the rear it releaves the tension which takes the force off shell carrier, but the little tab should still be in the square hole locking it in place.......until a shell is released from the magazine which thrust into the piece with the square hole, tripping same and unlocking carrier.

I'm thinking its not locking then when the bolt releaves that spring loaded machete looking piece, the carrier kinda moves free.
Or rather, not locking or unlocking etc. Hope this helps, I may be working out of town for a few days but i check back to see if you got it working.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:56:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 7:00:03 PM EDT by ThePrepared_com]
I had a couple 1100's that did the same thing with lighter loads. With most heavy loads it wouldnt happen. I drilled out the gas ports in the barrel a tad bit and they functioned flawlessly!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:21:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 9:22:07 PM EDT by Dano523]
Think of the action working like when the last shot is fired.

Now think of the same, but this time when the bolt goes back and locks, the mag ejected shell hits the release (the part that you circled) and release the bolt to cycle the next round in.


Quick test is to load a single round and fire it.

If the bolt does not lock back, then you will need to go to a stronger field load.

If the bolt does lock back on the single loaded round test, it will cycle the ammo. Now all you have to do is figure out way the case is not be ejected out the magazine with enough force to hit and active the inner bolt release tab to cycle the bolt back forward.
I'll give you a hint, a little clean and lubing of the inner mag tube, the spring, and the follower, followed by using gun scrubber to get the crud under the release spring may shed some light on the resolution.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:36:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 4:44:11 AM EDT by steveinct]
No, that's definitely a carrier/mag mechanical problem - not a cycling problem. That shell in the mag definitely wants to come out.

Thanks for the excellent pics.

I can't see from the photos of the fire control any obvious bending or warping of the carrier dog and am
wondering if there might be a problem with the feed latch (the strip of spring steel inside the receiver that serves as a "gate" to allow the shell from the mag to be pushed onto the carrier).

I checked my 1100 trigger and it looks the same as yours - I can't readily see anything wrong with your carrier latch. Have you tried swapping trigger groups with another 11-87 to see if it works with
someone else's? That would be my first recommendation.

When you have removed the fire control (trigger group) check to see if the feed latch is properly staked in (they sometimes pop out) I'm wondering if yours might be blcoking the shell when it has supposed to be cleared and allowed the shell to slide onto the mag carrier. Something is stopping that from happening.

This is the second shell that fails to make it to the carrier, correct? Because there is also a "third shell " feed latch on the opposite side of the receiver that trips up and blocks the subsequent shells in the magazine from all being pushed out together until the carrier has returned from lifting the shell
being loaded. (the two latches work in opposites and are dependent on the carrier position.

I've been shooting 1100s for trap for 25 years and the 11-87 is 95% the same gun.
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