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Posted: 10/8/2003 8:11:59 PM EDT
New Shotgun to be Fielded in Afghanistan
By Pfc. Brian Trapp
Army News Service
October 7, 2003


FORT BENNING, Ga. -- Dismounted Battlespace Battle Lab's lightweight shotgun system is undergoing operational inspection and test firing for 200 shotguns to be fielded to the 10th Mountain Division for future use in Afghanistan.




The 10th Mountain will field the lightest variation of the 12-gauge shotgun system, which attaches under the M-4 carbine and weighs 2 pounds, 11 ounces — less than the M-203 grenade launcher.

The system is a five-round, box-magazine-fed, manually operated shotgun. It uses a straight push-pull type bolt action that can be switched for either left or right-handed users. The attachment variation is 16.5 inches in length and uses the host weapon's sights. It is capable of firing lethal, non-lethal and breaching rounds.

The shotgun stand-alone version is converted from the attachable version. It has a pistol grip and a butt stock. The stand-alone weighs 4 pounds, 3 ounces and is 24 inches long, collapsed.

This version also has a reversible charging handle and is capable of firing lethal, non-lethal and breaching rounds.

The original system was a prototype for proof of concept, said Mike Barnes, chief, Robotics Division, DBBL. The one being fielded applied lessons learned from the first iterations of testing to make them more reliable in the field.

"We have identified a couple of areas for minor changes that we are doing on site," said Mike Kennedy, project officer, DBBL. "In the future, from what we've found here, the designer can make these changes in manufacturing to make it an overall better shotgun."

The minor adjustments included polishing some of the parts to reduce friction.

"When this system is fielded, we will know every shotgun is in good working order," he said. "They will be ready to go into the hands of soldiers for operational use."

When the testing is finished, about 15,000 rounds will be fired through the 200 systems going to the field.

"Out of 200 weapons, I've fired about 50 of them and I'm confident in the system," said Staff Sgt. William Partin, instructor, Light Fighter School, 10th Mountain Division, Fort Drum, N.Y.

"I think it's a great weapon system, being able to attach to the M-4 and as a stand-alone," he said. "I like that it's light. This is the lightest weapon I've carried in the Army besides a pistol. It weighs just about nothing."

Soldiers can use the shotgun as an all-around tool in an urban environment, Barnes said. They can use the non-lethal and breaching capabilities, and the big advantage is that they don't have to sling their primary weapon to do it.

"Think about what's going on in the world right now," said Staff Sgt. Tito Zelada, instructor, Light Fighter School, 10th Mountain Div.

"You have combatants and noncombatants together in a crowd and (the non-lethal capability) is a good way to neutralize them, whether or not they are armed."

"Numerous units in the field expressed the need for a tool like this," Barnes said. "I think it will get a lot of use."

"I thought the I thought the Remington 870, what we teach with, was sufficient but this gives us the upper hand on the way we breach," Partin said. "It's more accessible and easier than having to switch weapons."

Cost for the system is yet to be determined, because it is dependent on production quantities.

I think this is the one C-MORE was working on

Link Posted: 10/8/2003 9:13:52 PM EDT
need pics.

nuts to reading, this is the internet...

2lbs is interesting though. of course that doesnt include it loaded with ammo...
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 12:48:21 PM EDT



The system is a five-round, box-magazine-fed, manually operated shotgun. It uses a straight push-pull type bolt action that can be switched for either left or right-handed users. The attachment variation is 16.5 inches in length and uses the host weapon's sights. It is capable of firing lethal, non-lethal and breaching rounds.



Always wanted a mag fed shotgun.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 1:13:27 PM EDT
I remember seeing a pic of this in G&W for LE almost 2 years ago. Wish I could find it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 8:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I remember seeing a pic of this in G&W for LE almost 2 years ago. Wish I could find it.




Sure, get my hopes up and then crush me by saying you can't find it. I see how it is.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 8:45:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 8:46:02 PM EDT by Lumpy196]



Best one I could find on the net.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 10:27:52 PM EDT
Ahh nice work, I was waaay to lazy to look for stuff on the internet...

It isn't quite what I expected, the masterkey setup looks alot better.(even though it isn't all that practical...) Maybe I just need to get used to it or see it in action.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 10:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 10:30:42 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Id rather have a separate breaching shotgun.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 1:50:15 PM EDT
Better picture... Lumpy, that was prob. a prototype... looks too big and ugly...

Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:49:20 PM EDT
Doggonit, you do realize that picture is of a 1/6 scale toy rifle, right? That toy is based on an M4 with a Colt underbarrel shotgun. The detail of some of the toy soldiers nowadays is amazing.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 5:06:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 5:38:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 5:48:15 PM EDT by Wipeout]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I remember seeing a pic of this in G&W for LE almost 2 years ago. Wish I could find it.



I know the one you're talking about. give me a sec to scan it!


Alright, I found the GWLE issue and scanned it in! Here is the pic!

Link Posted: 10/13/2003 5:39:11 PM EDT
Im pretty sure they used those things in the Jet Lee movie "The One" durring the prison garage sceen.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 2:08:38 PM EDT
Anyone know if they will be available to civilians as an AOW? My state allows everything but short-barreled shotguns (those with full buttstocks). An AOW shotgun would be legal and right up my alley. I'd like one to mount on my transferable, selectfire M4A1 that I am putting together.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 3:03:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Anyone know if they will be available to civilians as an AOW? My state allows everything but short-barreled shotguns (those with full buttstocks). An AOW shotgun would be legal and right up my alley. I'd like one to mount on my transferable, selectfire M4A1 that I am putting together.



Im just guessing this but since its on a gun that has a stock they would probably still be considered a sbs .
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 8:59:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HunterGren:

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Anyone know if they will be available to civilians as an AOW? My state allows everything but short-barreled shotguns (those with full buttstocks). An AOW shotgun would be legal and right up my alley. I'd like one to mount on my transferable, selectfire M4A1 that I am putting together.



Im just guessing this but since its on a gun that has a stock they would probably still be considered a sbs .



I'd say that your guess is 100% correct.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 12:23:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 11:12:25 PM EDT by Lumpy196]


Link Posted: 10/19/2003 11:14:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:05:52 AM EDT
Dam thing looks huge. How does it mount in the back? Does it clamp onto the barrel or does lock onto the delta ring like a M203. From Lumpy's picture it kind of looks like it clamps onto the barrel.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:08:45 AM EDT
I followed Lumpys link and answered my own question. It does not clamp onto the barrel. It Mounts like a M203.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:18:46 AM EDT
Seems to me like the recoil from that shotgun would put a wholelotta stress on the magwell. I suppose that the entire weapon takes the majority of the recoil as the shotgun is barrel mounted, but still makes me wonder.

And the fact that most of us can't have such a device sucks donkey ass big time.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:04:23 AM EDT
I'll have to admitt the dam thing is growing on me!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 7:15:13 AM EDT
To clear up some confusion on this weapon as a "breachin device". The weapon has that capability, but it's intended primary tactical use is to allow soldiers on "peacekeeping", "nation building", "operations other than war" type of MP-like duties to have the option of firing less-than-lethal projectiles as well as using their M4s for deadly engagements.

A soldier could disperse a riot firing specialized riot control ammo, but immediateley transition to 5.56 if the situation changed.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:43:42 PM EDT
I still would prefer a seperate simple breeching shotgun in a scabbard rather than giving up the handling qualities of the gun on the off chance I might have a door to pop open.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 3:37:55 AM EDT
I think it looks ugly and would probably suck carrying that. Most likely it would also screw up the way you cary the m4. But the fact that it is a magazine fed 12 gauge shotgun undermounted on an m4 makes me want to buy one.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:19:20 AM EDT
Guys, is it just me, or does that LSS mag look for all the world like a 5-rounder from a RUSSIAN Saiga-12?

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