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Posted: 9/27/2003 7:19:54 PM EDT
I have the chance to pick up a Benelli M1 or a Bushy AR. But not both. They are both about the same price. Either would be for defense and possible on duty use. The M1 would be more of an all around weapon. Good for defense in the rural area I live in. The Bushy has greater range and pin point accuracy. And yes I would like both, but the budget won't allow that. Whats your opinion? Thanks for any imput.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 10:39:16 PM EDT
There is a thread on this subject at shotgunworld.com

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5683

I basically believe that if the goal is self-defense in close quarters, the shotgun wins hands down. I have an M1 Tactical and it puts the metal where you point it, as fast as you can pull the trigger. Also, maintainence is a breeze and I would imagine ammo is cheaper. My thoughts...

CW
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 11:31:05 AM EDT
I have both, and if in your shoes I would take the rifle, no question.

It is much more versatile than the shotgun...in spite of what you may see in print elswhere. Much greater ammo capacity, more than adequate stopping capability, almost zero recoil, ability to do up-close and 200yd.+ work with very little learning curve. Ammo is cheaper...by far...although the Bushy is so much fun to shoot you will shoot it a heck of a lot more, and it is much more of a "general use" weapon than any shotgun.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 9:17:09 PM EDT
I suggest that instead of buying a BUSHY AR or a Benelli M1 that you ponder this idea:

For the same price as ONE of these, you can buy a good Olympic Arms AR15 (if Kit Built), AND a good Mossberg 500A pump shotgun with 8 shot capacity... Just an idea.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 9:25:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
I basically believe that if the goal is self-defense in close quarters, the shotgun wins hands down.



Unless you need to take a precision shot to avoid friendlies, or if a rescue shot becomes necessary.

Unless your antagonist is behind something substantial or body armored.

Unless your engagement goes beyond 5-8 shots.


Link Posted: 10/4/2003 4:41:11 PM EDT
I agree with lumpy, the "ideal" CQB weapon has gone away from shotguns to rifles or carbines in most every circle.

I work in Law Enforcement and I can't think of a single department that I deal with that is still using shotguns for in car weapons (unless it is as a less lethal platform or the car also has a rifle).

I cannot imagine any TAC units using a shotgun anymore, too much danger of collateral damage.

I personally love shotguns and I own 3 mossberg 500s (one I'm trying to convert to a Bullpup), but the more I think about it the less I like the idea of using it for home defense.

A .223 round at close range will disintegrate when it enters a body (I'm not sure why but check ballistic reports and you'll see) it also will do roughly the same thing when it enters drywall at an angle, at close range.

I am also an FFL dealer and have noticed that people are MUCH more focused on rifles for home defense, this may be marketing or it may be that the idea is getting out that 9 .38 caliber balls bouncing around your home at high speed might be hazardous to children.

So anyone interested in one of my mossbergs? I'm getting 2 Bushmasters in next week and need the room.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 5:15:53 AM EDT
In my opinion I would deffinatly go with the AR. Not for home protection so much, as I'm sure it would do the trick, but like one of the above posts stated, a better all around weapon. But I still believe the best close quater, low light, inside my home, defense weapon would still be a shotgun. 5.56 is no match for 000 3" magnums as far as stopping power at extream close range, unless they are using body armor of coarse.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 10:47:01 AM EDT
I agree with the guy above that buckshot has a MUCH better chance of stopping someone, but in this era of "let's sue everyone so we don't have to take responsibility for our own stupidity" sending out 1 projectile instead of 9 is a safer bet in my book.

In a country where a burglar can sue the place he broke into because he injured himself, I want to make sure that there is no added liability when some jerk makes himself a target.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 11:15:37 AM EDT
I always prefered a carbine/rifle to a shotgun when I was on Duty. I opted for a M1 carbine over the Ithaca 12ga in the days before we could carry AR's.

Get the Bushmaster
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 3:49:27 PM EDT
All of the collateral damage arguments are correct, the shotgun will make a mess of things. The real questions that need to be answered are twofold. 1) Are you a trained professional that is experienced with rifles in a CQB environment and 2) since you live in a rural area are the targets just humans or are there other critters to worry about (snakes for example). I am not a trained proffesional and I know I wouldn't trust my aiming ability to ensure a stopping hit with one shot in an emergency situation. Any more shots and the lawsuit crowd takes over. Also, as far as lawsuits go I would imagine that a shotgun, however dressed up, is not going to look as military and "evil" as an AR to 12 men and women sitting in judgement of your actions.

My 2 cents,
CW
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 2:44:12 AM EDT
Perhaps I should have qualified my question more fully. I am a LEO. I am the senior firearms instructor for my dept. I am a certified urban rifle instructor as well as a shotgun instructor. I hold many other certifications as well as Glock and Bushmaster Armorer certifications. We carry Bushmasters and Mossberg 500 in the cars. My original post was more of a help me solve my delemna. I'm aware of all the pros and cons of each weapon system. This choice was more for the home defense role and critter protection. This would also be for my wifes use in the above situations. And yes she is trained and can shoot. In the end I solved the problem by buying a Benelli Nova 18.5 barrel with Ghost Rings. I'm in the process of setting it up now, ie; weapon mounted light, recoil reducer, night sight inserts, mag extension. This will leave me more money in the end to put towards the Bushy. After all I can get my AR fix at work and someone else buys the ammo. You all made valid points and I thank you for all of your imput.
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