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Posted: 9/25/2003 7:48:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 7:50:38 PM EDT by silversport]
I know what the buzz is about this shotgun but I would like to here from those who have used it...what do you all think?

Pistol grip or standard stock?
Ghost Ring sights are cool but...rifle sights okay???
What is the REAL difference in Post ban and pre ban on these shotguns?
What price should I expect to pay for a used few rounds through it M1 Super 90???
Does it really kick more than a pump??? (recoil over gas operated semi)
What about standard magazine...plus 2 or plus 4??? Legal with a post ban gun AND pistol grip???
Is it really the cats pajamas???

Thanks for your input!
Bill
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:55:05 PM EDT
Personally I like the pistol grip, I find it much more comfortable to hold in a low ready position with one hand. YMMV. I think it is more of personal preference.

I feel, and always recommend Ghost Rings on a tactical shotgun. There really is no better sighting system in iron sight form. I was tempted to get rifle sights so I could switch barrels and have a multi purpose shotgun. I am very glad I decided against that.

Yes. Pre-ban can have a pistol grip and an extension over 5 rounds. Being that my M1 is post ban I have a pistol grip and the two shot extension. That is another consideration for your stock choice.

Kick MORE than a pump!? Not only no, but Hell NO. Anyone who told you that must be jealous. Some people argue that the 11-87 has less recoil than the Benelli, I feel that they are very close. The difference in recoil vs. a pump is very dramatic.

IMHO It is. The only problems I have experienced are when people mess with the gun too much. I.E. bolting on a side saddle holder and not knowing what they are doing. For me, ghost ring night sights, a surefire fore end and a sling are all I need on my shotgun. If I want to hang a bunch of stuff on a gun it will be the M4gery.

Hope I covered everything, its late.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 7:11:33 PM EDT
You pretty much did and a belated thank you!
Bill
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 9:42:43 PM EDT
I too have a realtively new M1 with ghost rings and pistol grip. It definitely is the cat's pajamas! It will put metal where you point it extremely rapidly and will only hiccup with light (birdshot) loads if not held firmly. Other people have complained about cycling problems when you load it up with goodies, which is understandable from a physics and engineering perspective. I agree with SNIPERm88 that if you want a macho shotgun with lots of stuff, get a pump. There are some solutions to the shell holder issue that make sense, like the elastic carriers for either the buttstock or the receiver, or the velcro receiver holders. I haven't accessorised mine yet, and am looking only to put on a rail to mount a laser. I think a laser would be the most useful device as it allows for accurate shooting "from the hip" and somewhat accurate one hand shooting. Having done both without a laser to tell me where the buisiness end is pointing, I can attest that it will take a lot of practice to get the shot in the correct vicinity without one.

As far as sights go I am quite happy with the ghost rings. They allow both eyes open shooting and don't require batteries. Since my primary use for this weapon is self-defense while camping with the crazies in the California boonies, waiting for the dot to appear is not an option.

I need the pistol grip to allow my finger to reach the trigger properly (small hands), but it is both comfortable and offers the option of firing "from the hip". Plus it looks sexy as hell on the M1.

As far a kick goes, I can't claim multi shotgun experience, but there seems to be a huge difference between the 2-3/4 #7 shot and the 3 inch 00 buck rounds. Tried some 3 inch magnum 00 buck and was sore for several days. Some guy at the range wanted to try it, so being the devil that I am I let him. He came away rubbing his shoulder and with big, round eyes. In a nutshell, the M1 is light and maneuverable, which makes for more felt recoil.

Get one, you won't be dissapointed.

CW

Link Posted: 10/9/2003 10:41:38 AM EDT
Bill,

I would echo the previous posters responses regarding the M!. It is definitely a great shotgun. Fast, reliable and a sexy bitch(my bothers nickname for any 18" shotgun). However, would like to address some of your other questions so that you do not make the same mistake that my wife did (she purchased the gun for me as a graduation present).

Your stock selection should depend on how you plan to use the shotgun. Mine was intended for a self-defense/competition combo. Remember that the AWB applies to semi-auto shotguns. This is important if you want to stick a big mag extension under the barrel. If you have a pistol-grip stock you can't use the +4 extension. This is why, if given the opportunity, I would buy a standard stock in the future. However, if you find a used preban or the AWB goes away all bets are off.

I don't know about the quality of the shotgun, but you may want to look at the custom 1100 produced by JP. If memory serves me correctly the rig runs about $825. Maybe someone has some insight about that scattergun.

Kyle
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 12:05:26 PM EDT
I have two...one pre-ban and one post ban...both are set up the same because I do not care for pistol grips on my shotguns for most applications. I have never fired the post ban.

Neither has ghost ring sights, but I do like them. I much prefer the cleaner lines of the ScattergunTech sights than others, but they are less rugged if you are really going to beat the gun around a lot. I will probably add a set to the preban at some time or other. I do not find the standard sights to be any real impediment to hitting well with the gun, however.

While it does not shoot as "soft" as a gas operated system, the Super90 is definitely easier on the shoulder than a pump. Most I have seen will handle the majority of ammo you may choose to shoot, and all buckshot and slugs in 2 3/4" size.

I have seen and trained with some three dozen of these guns over the years and with the M121's before the Super90 came out (now THEY would slam you!) and they are very good, dependable and rugged weapons. I actually prefer the 870 for most uses since I have used one for so long, but the Super90 can put a lot of lead on target very, very quickly if that is one of your criteria.

Prices are higher for the pre-bans, and new post bans are in the $850 ballpark if you shop them. If you are interested, email me and I will give you a very good deal on my NIB post ban...standard stock, standard sights and +4 extension. It's just a closet queen for me.

Link Posted: 10/9/2003 5:15:56 PM EDT
Pistol grip aids in keeping the gun on target while you do 1 handed tactical reloads.

The M1 has the cleanest semi-auto action, I mean clean in terms of self cleaning.

All pumps kick harder than an M1 with the same loads.

IMHO, if you have done a lot of shotgun shooting in the past, on clays, hunting, multiple targets or fast moving targets, then the truth is you need very little on the barrel for sights beyond a large bead.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 8:06:58 AM EDT
I had not shot a standard grip M1s90 in a while until yesterday. I am 6'4" and have rather large hands, with my grip wrapped around the shotgun my finger tips were punching me in the face when shooting heaver loads. If I held my head back in a n unnatural position I could avoid it but there is no way I would now trade my PG for a standard stock. Just another thing to consider, especially if you are over 6'1.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 2:53:57 PM EDT
I used my M1 super 90 all summer for combat competition and it worked great.

I think the recovery time is slightly (ever so) slower than some of the heavier guns but then it is quicker to move and move with, so I think all in all it's a very good balance.

So far the only thing I haven't gotten to feed well is the reduced velocity L.E. Fiocchi, but then I know they make two different recoil spring rates and if I start using it more, I will just switch springs. I am getting old and half blind so I like the ghost rings but then again, I don't find sights terribly critical at most of the shotgun ranges anyway.

Yup....I like mine just the way it is. Possibly some day I will get the comp gun, but I don't exactly see a necessity.

Paul
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 6:25:56 PM EDT
I'll chime in here because I love my m1 s90! it is an earlier gun that will hold a 9th rd. under the bolt. Does not get dirty like a gas gun and as ppro points out, handeling is superb. Perhaps not as soft as the 1187, but its not as heavy to handle, or carry. Mine points super fast and I think the rifle sights with the standard stock contribute to this all important characteristic. this early gun also has no screw in choke and for me is the perfect combat shotgun. some say this is not as good as a tuned 1100, the button and all- ill take this recoil gun any day.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:42:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 10:50:10 PM EDT by MaverickMkii]
I love mine, you will never regret. This is a thing of beauty. I have mine with open sights and a pistol grip stock. I would have liked Ghost ring but when I bought mine I couldn't find one with it. Oh well, open rifle sights are pretty good on a shotgun anyway.

Since mine is a post-ban I can't use +4 mag extension and this is another reason I want that AWB thing down real soon. For defensive purposes, I would choose pistol grip over +4 mag extension on a post-ban, but thats my choice.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 1:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 1:49:39 PM EDT by G-Rated]
The Benelli M1 and M3 (same semi-auto action) have a design flaw that will result in hammer down on a live round if you pull the trigger too fast. I have PERSONALLY experienced this multiple times with two different M3s. This may or may not bother you. Please read about it here: www.winchester-guns.com/sx2_practical.htm


I have multiple shotgun experience: M1 super 90, M3 super 90, Browning A-5, Remington 1100, Ithaca 37, Remington 870.

Here's what I can tell you from my experience about the benelli:

-it DOES kick harder than a pump. I have shot two different M3s seconds after shooting my similarly outfitted 870. This is shooting the same ammo as in my 870.

-Both my friend that owns the M3 and I have had problems cycling the light loads.

-The pistol grip rocks. Shooting the M3 with the pistol grip is what pushed me to get a Choate pistol grip stock for my 870. The Pistol grip is great on a shotgun as it really helps control recoil.

-I have had the above mentioned hammer follow problem on multiple occasions (I have a fast finger)

-the ghost rings on the benelli are great, but personally I dont' feel the need for sights on a shotgun.


Personally I would consider getting a Remington 1100 and make sure to keep a good mag spring in it. Also I would consider getting a new browning gold or winchester SX2. I have a real problem with the benelli's problematic feeding of light loads and hammer follow issue, and the increased recoil and high price don't help either. Do plenty of research before you drop the bills.

Edit: The rumor about benelli being "the fastest shotgun in the west" is mostly a myth too. It is faster than the remington 1100, but only by .01s. The old browning A-5 and new browning gold/winchester SX2 are faster. Again, read the above linked article.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:01:36 PM EDT
Kicks harder than a pump? Damn, mine MUST be defective. I think I will send it back to Benelli on Monday.

The Benelli does indeed cycle faster than other auto loaders, granted it is only by a small amount. That does however give Benelli the right to say it is the fastest shotgun.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 3:14:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2003 3:20:49 PM EDT by JHP]
M1's rock...get one and you won't regret it

Go pistol grip and buy a second stock (straight) so you can switch between them whenever you want
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 9:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By G-Rated:
The Benelli M1 and M3 (same semi-auto action) have a design flaw that will result in hammer down on a live round if you pull the trigger too fast. I have PERSONALLY experienced this multiple times with two different M3s. This may or may not bother you. Please read about it here: www.winchester-guns.com/sx2_practical.htm




I too have pulled the trigger too fast, and had the hammer follow the bolt down on my M1. This has caused me to drop significantly in the standings at the 3 gun matches I shoot. It is quite annoying on the competition level, and potentially deadly on the defensive level. I wish there was some way to prevent this from happening. It usually happens when I have the 7 shot side saddle full, and I'm shooting some weaker loads (like 1 oz #7, 3 1/4 dram and lower stuff.) I don't notice it so much my new load (1 1/4 oz #4, 3 3/4 dram.) The drawback is the increased recoil.....

I know Pat Kelley personally (the author of the story at the link noted above.) He is an amazing shooter, and really, REALLY damn FAST! He borrowed my M1 to goof around, and I was amazed how quickly he could shoot it. He likes the SX2, but also told me there are a few things you have to do to it to make it more reliable as well.

If you want to shoot against him, show up at the Ephrata Sportsmen's matches in Central Washington sometime.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:10:54 PM EDT
I must have one of them de-fective Benelli's too. I actually have an M3 -- no way it kicks more than a pump...actually I think that is physically impossible. Now an M1 is a very light shotgun, which may make it seem to kick harder than some pumps to some people, but that is the simple trade-off for light.

Now recoil is a very subjective thing. I recently shot my M3 followed shortly by a friends SX2 followed by an 1100 that had the gas port opened up...same loads in all. Personally, I felt the M3 had less perceived recoil than the others....course it must be a pound or so heavier than an M1.

Just food for thought. By the way, if you can outrun the Benelli hammer, you are one of about 3 guys in the country that can ... congrats.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:01:16 PM EDT
I find it really intriguing that Tom Knapp does not have the hammer on his Benelli follow the bolt down.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:41:56 AM EDT
Well, I got one...found a great deal on a apparently never shot, only loaded M1Super90 with both the 2 and 4 shot extensions...pistol grip stock, and rifle sights...feels great but I haven't shot it yet...
Thanks for all the replies.
Bill
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:38:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2003 8:39:04 AM EDT by ikor]

Originally Posted By SNIPERm88:
I find it really intriguing that Tom Knapp does not have the hammer on his Benelli follow the bolt down.



Nor. apparently did John Satterwhite when he shot for Benelli!
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 9:23:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:

Originally Posted By SNIPERm88:
I find it really intriguing that Tom Knapp does not have the hammer on his Benelli follow the bolt down.



Nor. apparently did John Satterwhite when he shot for Benelli!




Then the cold, hard facts about the mechanical function of the trigger system must just be hooey I guess.

I'll be honest it only happened to me when I was doing mag dumps, I would not likely shoot that fast in a defense scenario. However, what if due to recoil or whatever I had an accidental "double-tap" occur? It has happened to me before with an A-5 and is possible something similar could happen with a benelli.

It's your life and your decision to make.

As to the recoil, yes it is subjective. I am by no means a wuss. I was just being honest as to what I had experienced. If I liked the benelli besides that fact, I would live with it and it would not bother me at all.

Every gun has a flaw or two, and it is important to face them.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 9:52:47 AM EDT
I JUST got back from picking up my new preban Benelli/H&K Super 90. Wow - what a beauty! Thanks for all the responses to silversport, because they were very useful to me as well. The extension and pistol grip are very handy.

I took her out back and ran a few rounds through her. Unfortunately, right now it appears to be a single-shot wonder (no ejection of spent hulls). I'm hoping a good cleaning will help. I can say without a doubt, though, that this thing kicks a LOT less than a pump even though it's lighter. It also seems a lot more intuitive and easier to fire than a standard pump to me.

Black Fox
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