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Posted: 7/12/2003 8:46:33 AM EDT
I shoot a Benelli Nova 20gage with a IC. choke and I can hit a pop can at 50 yards. But I have a friend that has a Benelli Super Black Eagle with a rifled barrel and a 6x54 scope. Last year he shot a 12 point buck at 383 yards! Thants right 383 yards. I was guessing it was a lucky shot but 4 days later he shot a 8 point at 250 yards. Can any one else shoot any were near this far? thanks
Jesse
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 10:10:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2003 10:12:23 AM EDT by Zoub]
How about 383 feet instead of yards, in which case he made a shot at the limit of the effective range of 12 gauge slugs and very possible with the gun you described.

Even if his scope were sighted in for 100 yards and he held over 12 inches on the target, I am not sure the slug would travel that far.

just out of curiosity what ammo was he supposedly using?
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 1:08:34 PM EDT
He was useing some kind of sabot slug. I don't know what kind. I could find out if you want. I think he might of loaded it himself. And it really was 383 yards.
Jesse
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 1:57:27 PM EDT
shooting anything over 100 yards with a shotgun slug is iffy at best. Even a bolt action Tar Hunt would not get you past 150 consistantly in my opinion. I think the slugs will travel that far, but depending on uphill, downhill components of the shot the holdover would be about 10-12 feet for 300 yards and the energy of the projectile would be questionable. the ranges you are talking about are in line for a .308 or a 7MM but for a 12 gauge, I would doubt it unless you saw the shot. under ideal conditions it may work, but I would not try it near that often.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 2:06:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2003 2:07:53 PM EDT by DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted By 2843906:
shooting anything over 100 yards with a shotgun slug is iffy at best. Even a bolt action Tar Hunt would not get you past 150 consistantly in my opinion. I think the slugs will travel that far, but depending on uphill, downhill components of the shot the holdover would be about 10-12 feet for 300 yards and the energy of the projectile would be questionable. the ranges you are talking about are in line for a .308 or a 7MM but for a 12 gauge, I would doubt it unless you saw the shot. under ideal conditions it may work, but I would not try it near that often.



LOL...

I can almost consistantly hit a 2' x 2' wooden board at 300 yards with a Benelli M1 Super 90 (18.5" barrel w/ cyl. choke) using standard Winchester 12 ga slugs, sighted through ghost ring sights.

IN THE WIND!

To top things off, I have an ARF.com member for a witness.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 6:56:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate:
I can almost consistantly hit a 2' x 2' wooden board at 300 yards with a Benelli M1 Super 90 (18.5" barrel w/ cyl. choke) using standard Winchester 12 ga slugs, sighted through ghost ring sights.



Devil, consistently hitting a 24" by 24" group would not be good enough for ethical deer hunting, let alone whether the slug retains enough energy for an effective kill. BUT....

Since I have never bothered to try a shot over 125 yards, where did you place the board, was it on the ground or a few feet up? How much do you estimate your hold over was? Assuming it was plywood, did the slug just punch holes in it.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 9:33:20 PM EDT
The slug easily punched holes into the 3/4" plywood board. The board was at ground-level, propped upright with some "range junk".

Hold over (because it didnt warrant changing the sights) was approximately 36".

Yes, it took a couple shots to "get in the zone", but once there, it was very easy to hit.

I would not recommend trying to hunt deer at that range either unless it was absolutely neccesary. But then again, I DON'T HUNT.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 4:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 4:56:01 PM EDT by mike103]
DA, A 2'X 2' sheet of plywood is not the benchmark of marksmanship that a deer hunter is looking for. For deer hunting, that's what Jesse was talking about, I would say that a shooter should be able to keep his shots in a 8" circle or smaller. I have shot a shit load of slugs but never further than 100 yards because my guns had only iron sights. Now that I have a fully rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount I will give the two hundred yard range a try. MIKE.

Edited to add: Remington recommends a 150 yard sight in for their flattest shooting 385 grain 12 gauge core-lokt ultra bonded sabot slugs. MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:30:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Edited to add: Remington recommends a 150 yard sight in for their flattest shooting 385 grain 12 gauge core-lokt ultra bonded sabot slugs. MIKE.



I was plannng on trying these summer in my hastings barrel, but you can bet next time I hit the range I am going to "lob some lead turds" at 200 and 300 yard targets through a smooth bore barrel too. Three to five foot holdover! Good thing the standard 12 gauge lead turd/Foster slug is cheap.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:01:52 PM EDT
Z, Don't forget the .410 slugs! Wal-Mart sell them for 2+ dollars a box. No recoil! Lots of fun to shoot! Mike.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:05:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 6:06:07 PM EDT by Zoub]
Mini-turds!

That reminds me, I need to find some .410 slugs in 3". I noticed that Russian stuff with the metal hull is 3". I think cheaper than dirt carries it.

Are the Walmart slugs 3"? I assume Remington or Winchester.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:33:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 6:40:29 PM EDT by mike103]
Remington 2 1/2". Yes Cheaperthandirt has the 3" or 2 7/8" to be exact, expensive about $4 dollars a box. MIKE.

Edited to add: Dynamit Nobel Item#49318 $4.82 a box .410 2 7/8" slugs
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:47:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
DA, A 2'X 2' sheet of plywood is not the benchmark of marksmanship that a deer hunter is looking for. For deer hunting, that's what Jesse was talking about, I would say that a shooter should be able to keep his shots in a 8" circle or smaller. I have shot a shit load of slugs but never further than 100 yards because my guns had only iron sights. Now that I have a fully rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount I will give the two hundred yard range a try. MIKE.

Edited to add: Remington recommends a 150 yard sight in for their flattest shooting 385 grain 12 gauge core-lokt ultra bonded sabot slugs. MIKE.



I don't hunt and I don't really care what the benchmark for shooting a deer is.

All I know is that I can hit a 2' x 2' target at 300 yards with cheap, readily available slugs and have them do some damage. I guess that's all I really care to know.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 9:42:13 AM EDT
DA, No offense but long range shots at deer was the topic, not half sheets of plywood. It took a "couple of shots to get in the zone" and you are happy with that? I could get into the zone with a slingshot but what would that prove? MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:24:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 2:06:06 PM EDT by DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted By mike103:
DA, No offense but long range shots at deer was the topic, not half sheets of plywood. It took a "couple of shots to get in the zone" and you are happy with that? I could get into the zone with a slingshot but what would that prove? MIKE.



No offense taken...I thought the topic question of "How far can you shoot slugs with your shotgun?" allowed me to post what I thought was a reasonable answer to a reasonable question.

I'm QUITE happy with knowing the performance characteristics of my equipment. Is that such a bad thing?


Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:04:02 PM EDT
Shooting slugs with shotguns is overkill.
I just walk up and pour some salt on 'em.



CHRIS
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:13:35 PM EDT
I might be wrong, however I suspect that the last thing Mike is worried about is getting seriously flamed for being a dumbass.

I know that I certainly don't think he is a dumbass, and that is regardless of consideration with respect to his function as a moderator of the shotgun forum. I agree with his interpretation that the original post was framed around a vein of long range deer hunting with shotgun slugs, and I also agree with his decision to suggest that your performance at the ranges under discussion is below standards that I certainly hold.

I also hold as my opinion you don't really know the performance charracteristics of your equipment; you only know that you can consistently hit a 2 foot x 2 foot piece of 3/4 inch plywood and that the slug penetrates.

So...while I do not know Mike personally and have never had the priveledge of meeting him, I have read much of what he has written here and have come to recognize he has alot to teach and much to respect. I know that I have learned alot...perhaps you might too?

Take care,

BrobeeBiter
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:23:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jesse123:
I shoot a Benelli Nova 20gage with a IC. choke and I can hit a pop can at 50 yards. But I have a friend that has a Benelli Super Black Eagle with a rifled barrel and a 6x54 scope. Last year he shot a 12 point buck at 383 yards! Thants right 383 yards. I was guessing it was a lucky shot but 4 days later he shot a 8 point at 250 yards. Can any one else shoot any were near this far? thanks
Jesse



In looking at the authors perspective, I would have to say that he was more concerned with accuracy and range as opposed to deer hunting. He used his friends experience with killing a deer with just as much emphasis as his experience with a pop can.

I don't have any experience with shooting pop cans and I don't hunt, so in the spirit of some of the other members posting in here, I have nothing to offer and should not be posting in here.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 2:49:56 PM EDT
I/we kind of moved this post towards ballistics of a 12 gauge slug instead of fantasy deer kills at a 1/4 mile. I can use Devils info to get on paper a lot quicker at a range I have never tried.

Since no one has said it yet, I personally think it is bullshit if a deer was dropped over 300 yards, regardless of the ethics involved in taking the shot, even with a sabot.

But I am open to new things, so I may try some long shots on the range this year. The good thing about youth is when you are young, you don't know that "you are not supposed to be able to do that". The issue now is not rifled slug barrels, I have had mine for 20 years, it is the improved ammo. If Remington says 150 yards, that means 200. That is almost double of where I was hitting in 1983, when 75 was supposedly the max, I was at 120 yards. I have never bothered to go longer since then.

Hmmmmm?? First we have to get on paper, then do some research on retained energy at 200 yards+, then this fall one of us (the old farts) has to try a longer shot on a deer. 200 yards is not out of the question for a 50 cal muzzleloader.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:50:00 PM EDT
Z, I used to read a guy on Huntamerica.com that shot dozens of deer each year with the shotgun. He lived out by you in either Indiana or Illinois. He posted several targets and range reports. He concluded that about 225 yards was about it then the wind took over. I would tend to believe that because the ammo makers are trying to make slugs more accurate but still limit their overall range. This guy had access to control permits so he could shoot lots of deer each year. We need some range reports. My list of guns that I want to shoot a deer with this year is growing but the .223 is first on my list. MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:35:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Z, I used to read a guy on Huntamerica.com that shot dozens of deer each year with the shotgun. He lived out by you in either Indiana or Illinois. He posted several targets and range reports. He concluded that about 225 yards was about it then the wind took over. I would tend to believe that because the ammo makers are trying to make slugs more accurate but still limit their overall range. This guy had access to control permits so he could shoot lots of deer each year. We need some range reports. My list of guns that I want to shoot a deer with this year is growing but the .223 is first on my list. MIKE.



Mike, with all the fun we had today, I hope you dont think Im trying to be an ass here.

The .223 from 55gr to 69gr might not be enough to down a Bambi unless the shot is done with surgical precision, which is very easy out to 300 yards with the right rig. Precision is the key because of the light weight of (most) .223 bullets.

IMHO, you would be better suited with a .308 for decent penetration with a fairly light bullet of 146gr to 180gr.

YMMV
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:08:34 AM EDT
DA, You right but I have already shot over 45 deer with my 30-06 and another dozen of so with 12 and 20 gauge slugs. I am looking to try other guns and am willing to wait for the right shot. I have a good friend that uses the .223 all the time and recommends the Federal 55 grain trophy bonded bear claws. But when you shoot them in the head like he does most of the time most anything will work. But you are right I would not recommend the .223 to a new hunter. I hunt from a blind so bringing two guns would not be that big a deal. I would feel naked without my 30-06. MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 4:25:54 PM EDT
As I understand common building materials, a typical sheet of plywood is 4'x8' in nominal dimension.

If this is true, one sheet is 32 square feet in surface area.

If this is true, a 2'x2' section of plywood is 1/8 of a sheet of plywood.

And that’s all I know about 300 yard shots with a 12ga shotgun firing slugs.


Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:49:16 AM EDT
DA

We miss you man!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 12:46:27 PM EDT
I shot a really good 8-pointer almost 3 seasons ago at 147 yards, verified with a laser rangefinder. I was using a Remington 870 "Super Slug" with a Nikon Monarch 4X40 scope. Sabot was the flat-shooting Winchester Supreme Nosler Partition Gold that drops 12" at 200 yards on a 100-yard zero. The ground sloped down to the buck at about a 45° angle. Add in the fact that I was at least 25 feet up a tree and it probably makes it more like a 60° angle shot downward. The distance, had it been flat ground, would have required a hold over. Steep uphill or downhill shots fly high in comparison to point of aim, thus negating the hold over. I aimed dead on and hit dead on. For ethical reasons I would never attempt a shot over 200 yards with a slug on a game animal.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 10:09:27 PM EDT
Shooting a deer past 200 yards with any slug gun ranks right up there with the douchebag at the 3-D course that told me he shot a doe at 65 yards in the head with his compound bow, pure bullshit. I have a rifled winchester 1300 with a 2-7 Leupold shotgun scope. Using 2 3/4" Lightfield sabot slugs I can get consistant 2-3" groups at 100 yards. I shot them once at a life sized deer target at a lasered 200 yards from a bench rest (not under field conditions) and I had to hold at the top of the deers antlers to put a shot in the very bottom of the chest cavity. Hardly flat shooting. I have shot the super hot winchester partiton golds wihtout changing zero and they would shoot about 6 inches high at 100 yards compared to the lightfields. They probaly could be a legit 200 yard slug gun in a Tar hunt or the Ithaca deerslayer 3, but 300 yards would be laughable, let alone 383.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 11:09:31 PM EDT
Last night I got back from Armored Fire, and blasted 14 slugs through my Mossberg shottie... It broke my shoulder up really good (or so it feels)! As DA & FedGunner know: THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A HOSTAGE!!! (Inside joke)

That target was obliterated!!! No face, and LITTLE chest left at 40 yds! (Haven't shot further because it was indoor & I ran out of ammo to try it at 50 yds)

I didn't know there was a shotgun forum here... Gonna have to stop in here more often!!!

Yes, DA, You're missed here...

Oh, yeah, why did I chime in on this thread? Oh YEAH! I forgot... It was to say, "Piss 'N' Moan, Piss 'N' Moan"...

My answer to the thread's question: No. I cannot shoot my shotgun anywhere near that far. Haven't tried yet, and cannot afford to do so.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:16:06 PM EDT



I would not recommend trying to hunt deer at that range either unless it was absolutely neccesary. But then again, I DON'T HUNT.





oooooohhhh scary!!!
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 7:51:59 PM EDT
I was with DA at the Carson City range when we engaged in this mischief. Being half crippled at the time I never went down range to see the target but you couldn't talk me into standing out there with a mitt! For those familiar with the range this was at the last berm/base of the hill. The orange dots further up the hill were the clays he was breaking with his rifle.

Be sure to ask about the other mischief

Link Posted: 8/11/2003 10:47:25 PM EDT
Just my little input......
On a man sized target at 100 yards, i can consistenly pound the chest area with remington 3 inch magnum slugs (not more than 10 though, i really feel like shit after that)
This is coming out of a benelli nova, 18.5 inch barrel and open rifle sights...
THe slugs definitely do drop some (i aim for the head)
3 inch magnum rounds hurt.. even with the mercury recoil reducer thati have in the buttstock
Which is why i always shoot the shotty last, since the targets filled with holes from other guns anyway
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