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Posted: 6/22/2003 5:56:57 PM EDT
I'll admit, I'm new to shotguns, but not shooting. I've shot competitive action pistol on and off for almost 20 years. In my handgun experience, novice shooters will encourage and welcome, but not appearently on the trap field.

We waited our turn, didn't comment on the missed clays, and stay out of the previous groups way. When they were done, a couple of their squad wanted to shoot another round with friend and me. No problem. I pull out my shotgun, and their squad leader makes some smart ass comment about me shooting my Remy 1100CM. "What are you going to do with that thing?" Granted, it's not exactly a trap gun, but I can still hit pretty well. He acted like he wasn't going to shoot with us because of my shotgun. What an ass! Is this normal out there?
Do I need to switch to skeet?

BTW- shot a 20/25, and a 24/25. I'm really pissed I missed that one.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 7:04:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 7:08:59 PM EDT by AeroE]
Just switch the people you are shooting with - clay shooters, and I mean skeet, trap and sporting clays, seem to attract a special order of asshole.

On the other hand, I've been shooting with a great bunch in our Wednesday night Sporting Clays league - they will coach you if you're having trouble, but you have to take a bunch of needling, too. These guys aren't likely to comment on your gun, because they shoot the most motley assortment you ever saw - in fact, a couple bring something unusual about every week. One man shoots a Model 12 every week.

Don't let the bastards wear you down; it's supposed to be fun, first and foremost, and the knuckleheads are probably delusional about their shooting ability to boot.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 7:17:20 PM EDT
The one thing about AA shooters is that there for practice, not just a Sunday outing. Unless you are a great shot (used to shooting on a squad), and use a shell catcher, all you will be doing is breaking their concentration.

If you noticed, they were breaking clays right out of the trap house, and they had a rhythm going in regards to time from shooter to shooter firing. Unless you were following the squads pace, and break points, all you were doing is breaking their practice/shooting rhythm.

Grant that you may believe that your score were great; we will run strings of hundreds of clays with out a loss of target. By having a shooter that lets the clays go long or breaks the shooter-to-shooter time cycle, it disrupts the squad.

So in regards to the two sports, unless your are going to start taking trap very, very serious, I would suggest that you find a group of peers to shoot trap with that are not AA shooters.
As for skeet, it too has some guide lines to follow, but you are less likely to break anyone’s rhythm, due to the fact that you are the only one in the box shooting, and how you shoot the clays will not impact anyone else rhythm (as long as you are shooting in the 20's, and don't make up reasons why you missed the target,we get tied of lies on the target was too fast or the pull was slow).

Dano
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 7:36:11 PM EDT
If you are a dues paying member or customer, shoot what you want to and let the "aces" work around you. A lot of shot gunners think they have a lot of class, but it sounds like their short on good manners.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:57:51 AM EDT
TV, For the sake of full disclosure I will admit that I hate trap,I am a skeet shooter, mostly because of trap shooters. But much of what Dano523 says is true. Good shooters are distracted by beginners. But at the same time I have seen people act like they are good shooters but when you see them shoot they suck. I brought my brother skeet shooting several months back. He has shot in the past not very much but he is a woods shooter, not much gets past his barrel while hunting. We shot several rounds, he shot 16-20's about right for some one who does not do this all the time. After 4-5 rounds He asked to shoot trap, I agreed. Well my brother shoots a Mossberg 9200 auto. When he step on the line next to this little short lady, (using the term loosely), she looks at his gun and says that the shells hitting the ground would bother her and runs to her car and gets a shell catcher. She takes my brothers gun and tries to install it but it was for a Remington and not a Mossberg. She lets out a scream, " this is a Mossberg, I can't believe I am shooting with someone with a Mossberg". My brother turns to leave, I called her some choice names, but I stopped him and we all settled down and shot. Now I don't shoot trap much, but I can when I want, so I pulled up my Remington 1100 and went to work. That was my first 25 straight in a long time. The little short shit shot in the low 20's and the puller was so happy, she knows I am a skeet shooter, she gave me a 25 straight patch. My brother shot in the high teens and we left.

Moral of the story, fuck the little bastards, you do what you want, let them leave. I have been following your progress with your 1100CM, keep up the good work. Try skeet and sporting clays, much more social games. Remember they are only games. MIKE.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:57:48 AM EDT
The highest score on their squad was an 18. One guy shot a perfect '0' for 25. The rest were mid-teens. Not a bunch of top shooters by any means. Just the attitude, not the cajones to back it up.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:03:19 AM EDT
TV, Well then it sound like you should be setting the pace, not them. More reason to fing ignore them completely. Expand your horizons and try the other games. MIKE.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:45:18 PM EDT
If those guys shot less than 25, screw them. Trap is muscle memorization and concentration. No real magic to it, just practice. Most of them can't hit a quail. In high school I use to work a lot of big money shoots. I would pull the 4th pad. A lot of todays modern medications apply to what most of these guys suffer from.

After you shot 24, you should have turned to them and said, "Shit, can you believe I was shooting with improved cylinder. I am such a dumbass. Just imagine if instead of using my POS gun I was using yours? Do you think I would have done better with your gun?" In trap you have to enter the world of the Psy-ops.

By the way it was their choice to fill out YOUR squad. They could have dropped back to the end of the line and waited. Now go find a sporting clays or five stand course and have some real fun.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:22:51 PM EDT
I take a lot of shit when I go out and shoot trap. If it wasn't for the fact that I hold a card at the range then I think I would be attituded off. First I'm young looking. I may be almost 30 but I look like at kid. Second I don't have a $3,000 over under, I shoot a rem 1100 synthetic. It may be that every one is over 50, but I don't disturb their rythem and I keep my mouth shut and go with the flow. I never shot a 25 but I do average about 18 or so. When I really want to put it in their face I use my rem 870 home defense cylinder bore, and yes I can keep up with them even with that.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:22:29 AM EDT
Although I have a Browning 425, just for fun I tried my Benelli M1 Open Class IPSC gun at the local trap range. This gun has a 10 round magazine, set-up for speedloaders, and is topped with a Tasco red-dot scope. I was told that the dot was illegal (its not). I then shot 24/25. I think trap would be a lot more fun if it was shot against the clock. Fastest to break 25 birds wins, speedloaders and extended tubes allowed in open. Some of the most fun I ever had with a shotgun was shooting the Flush and Flurry events at the Chevy Truck Sportsman match
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:22:56 PM EDT
Boy I wish we lived closer, I would love to see you guys shoot trap with 18" barrels and improved cylinder chokes and do that well. I struggle with a 28" barrel and a full choke. MIKE.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:36:33 AM EDT
mike 103,when I am configured for IPSC Open, my M1 wears a 26" barrel and screw in chokes. I have used the 18" configuration with rifle sights and also had success. The key is to shoot very fast. This skill also comes in handy when its windy as you can break the bird before the wind plays with it. You might try a more open choke. When shooting my 425 I use improved modified when shooting singles and use a modified in the first barrel when shooting doubles. The trap doesn't ossilate with doubles so you always know where the first bird is depending on which station you're on.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 11:29:28 AM EDT
You might find skeet and sporting more to your liking. In my experience trap shooters are not a social bunch of shooters. No talking, no distracting, heck if you take too long to call for your target or do anything unusual they will say you are breaking their concentration.

Skeet shooters for a real 'squad' and at least the guys I shoot with there is talking, kidding, coaching, etc.

And dont' worry what people think of your gun - if they are worried about that they are probably gun snobs.

I love outshooting...or at least keeping up...with gun snobs.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:11:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 12:17:10 PM EDT by mike103]
Bill223, I am going to take your advise and try a more open choke in trap. I shot trap 20 years ago and did ok with it. When I returned to the clays three years ago I took up skeet. I think I am going to make a effort with it this summer. A good friend has a Browning single barrel trap gun on it's way, I am going to check it out when it comes. Mike.

Edited to add: I was out at my new club this morning shooting skeet with my son. I watched a squad of old timers shooting trap. I mean these guys were old, I only hope I am still shooting at their age. Well these old dogs could still hunt! I watched three rounds and they only dropped a bird or two between them. Nice to see. On the other hand my son and I couldn't get it together! MIKE.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:35:45 PM EDT
At 16 to 20 yards, a 28" barrel and modified choke is great. Hot loads are optional for better breaks. Modified only works against you if you like to wait before you shoot.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:40:23 PM EDT
You're the one who's shooting. Tell them to eat sh*t and die if they don't like your gun or 'rhythm'

As long as you're being safe and following the rules everyone else can go to hell.

Yea, it's real easy to get a 10 year old into the shooting sports when people are snobby assholes.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 12:08:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2003 12:12:28 AM EDT by Dano523]
Mike,
Off the 16-yard line, I run Briley Mod tubes and an Improved Modified tubes off the 27-yard line using 34" barrels. Keep in mind that my trap guns are set up to shoot 14" high and I break clays right out of the house. If your letting them get out, you may have to choke a little tighter.

On my double guns, I run a loose modified and modified tubes out of 30" barrels. My break point of the second clay would be were you would be at the 23 yard line, again the first clay is right out of the house.

Also, forget about trying to shoot hot goose loads, my practice loads are 1-1/16 @1200 to allow me to shoot longer during practice. I only step up to 1-1/8 AA loads during match shoots. Plus, a hotter load stands a good chance of blowing the shit out of your pattern, or just opening it up way to fast.

Flash-hider,
The one thing that you are forgetting is those trap match shooters are money shooters. During a match shoot, it's not uncommon to have hundreds of dollars on the line is side bets, then if you include price money, you get the idea why there is so much tension during practice. In the heat of season, trap shooting is a 9 to 5 second job, so please keep that in mind.

Bottom line is when it comes to practice, most of the time I shoot with the same practice squad, or on a different trap house that is not set up for occasional shooters (set short and slow). Trust me, I’m not one of the people that you see bitching, rather I’m the guy that you see shooting off on a different trap house or sitting very quietly on the bench, looking out into space going over break point and the rhythm of the throws that each machine is putting out (it helps if you are shooting leagues during the week).

As for skeet shooting, again I am keeping my head in my own shooting, and often just stay quiet watching the throws/timing when others are in the box. If someone is shooting 3-4-5 behind the target, I will offer input on distance to increase (never in a match), but for the most part during practice, my mind is on my own shooting. If I am going to help someone out, I will not shoot that round and give them advice on style and break points, but have found that during my own time to practice, I need to stay focused on my own shooting and break points (much faster out of the houses, and very different break points than beginning shooter that often take the clays for a walk across the in bounds).

So as you see, most of us are not snobs, just in our own little world going over our game plan/own style.


Link Posted: 7/5/2003 1:46:20 PM EDT
Dano523, It's nice to know that guys like you are out there, shooting seriously and supporting the games. But! We need new shooters! We need guys like you to welcome and mentor beginner shooters. Two years ago when my youngest son began shooting skeet he was not met with open arms. Several old timers walked off the field rather than shoot with a 12 year old. In time they learned the error of their ways and now when he does not show up for Thursday night shooting they miss him. I hope that you take some time off from your busy schedule and help a beginner. MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 10:39:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
So as you see, most of us are not snobs, just in our own little world going over our game plan/own style.



I don't doubt that 95% of trap shooters are alright guys.

It just seems that some people need to remember that nobody starts as a pro.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 12:43:16 PM EDT
my dad just started shoting trap a few months ago, and hes using a rem 870, he hasnt mentioned any snobs but then he shoots with a competitor. i KNOW there are trap snobs out there.
he wants me to go with him to shoot, i said i wanted to shoot my SAIGA 12, he says they might not like me shooting that gun, i said ...THATS THE WHOLE POINT.
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