I'm a big fan of the Five seveN pistol and the 5.7x28 round. I'm not here to debate the merits or failures of the 5.7 round, and do NOT want to engage in that discussion in this thread. I want to use this thread to update my experiences with the Five seveN pistol I use as my range gun and to keep track how it performs over time.

I started out my Five seveN journey with two Five seveN MKII pistols I purchased almost 3 years ago. I carried the FDE MKII daily for almost two years. I also put about 5000 trouble free rounds through it over that time.

At some point I decided I preferred the look of the earlier USG model Five seveN. I traded my unfired Black MKII for a NIB older USG with fixed sights. I added FN Factory Night Sights on the USG. This is my daily carry Five seveN. Then I purchased another NIB USG with the adj sights to make my range gun. My FDE MKII sits in the house at ready should it be needed.

I shoot weekly and put 50 to 100 rounds through my Five seveN every range visit. So far I have fired 1397 rounds through my range Five seveN USG with adj sights. It is sighted in for the less expensive SS917, which makes up its diet.

It has been cleaned twice. Once after 700 rounds and once after 1347 rounds.

THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO MALFUNCTIONS OF ANY KIND TO DATE with my range USG. Not a single thing. Nothing but insert a loaded mag, rack the slide, pul the trigger and bang, bang, bang. (In fact I have many thousands of rounds of 5.7 through all my Five seveN pistols combined, and have never had a malfunction of any kind. The only problem I ever had was the bullets falling out of the cases on a bad lot of the crappy AE 40gr ammo loaded by Fioochi).

All of my Five seveNs have ben super accurate. 1" to 2" 10 shot groups at 10 yards are easily to attain even rapid fire.


Here are some targets from recent range visits with my USG. All groups are fired at 10 yards using SS197 ammo. I will update this post every few hundred rounds to let you know how my range USG is performing.

Very cool. Thanks. I will have one some day.

Have you done any reloading of your cases?

The fact that i get out shooting once a week is a feat in itself. I am running two businesses and I have a two year old daughter. Reloading is another hobby onto itself. Every minute I can get for myself counts. So no reloading for me at this point. Maybe some day. The cases just get swept up with the rest of brass. It is a lot of work to pick them out and many of them fly into the range where I cannot walk.

I buy 500 rounds of SS197 from PSA for $179 delivered. I order two. I load it up in the mag and shoot it. Then I order another two cases. That is my involvement with the ammo.

Same  the whole package definitely has some different unique roles it can fill.

I'm wishing that someone comes out w/ an AR upper for the 5.7x28mm or the .22" TCM that takes their respective pistol mags.  (Waits for someone to fail to read the last half of the sentence.)

Great guns, we carry them daily in the mtns...

SO is out collecting debris to burn w/ a skid steer  and is wearing her's and a radio.

I'm inside a shipping container posting -naked...





Yesterday she told me she drew it on a large buck she walked up on that was lying about 200 feet from the container as she backed away... She was abt 15 feet from it and it didn't seem to have any fear...

Told her to go get some pix... And to not get so close to them... They can really mess you up...


 

The more I read about other Five sevens...the more I think mine is somehow not what it should be...

High resistance in trigger pull.  Unusually so.  I don't have a gauge to check it though.  Depending on the election, it may go back to FN.

You can quickly make a gauge to measure the resistance...

I have 3 Five seveNs. All have the same excellent trigger pull and reset. The trigger really breaks super clean for a factory trigger. They all break somewhere just north or south of 5lb.

I have had some great gunsmiths do trigger work for me, and I have even done some trigger jobs on my pistols and revolvers. I'm pretty familiar with what constitutes a good trigger pull. My Five seveN triggers are perfect as it is. I have no interest in changing them.

Whatever you do DON'T send it back to FN. When you send it back it actually goes to Browning. It is the WORST Customer Service on earth. No joke. I had to send an FN back once two years ago for something so minor I don't even remember what it was. But I do remember It took 6 months to get back and a whole lot of aggravation and run around. Many others report the same. Take it to a Smith who is familiar with the gun and pay to have it fixed if necessary. It is not worth them having the gun for half a year.

This thread inspired me to revisit my five seven, I think I'll do what others have suggested and take it to a local gun smith I trust.

Good for you. Honestly there are not too many handguns that are full sized, carry 21 rounds, weight 27 ozs fully loaded, fire a round at 2400 FPS (Elite Ammo T6B), and can penetrate Armor designed to stop handgun rounds. It is also super accurate, mild recoil makes accurate follow-up shots a breeze. The round and the gun are very misunderstood by most. Usually people who have never fired or done any real research about the round.

I think I'll leave this here...


https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=684069

2600 fps is turning temporary wound cavities into permanent wound cavities.  Anyone know what ammo the traitor used @ Ft Hood?

And that's what I vaguely remembered from the time, that the ammo was well under the 2000-2100 fps line.  900 fps faster is changing the game a bit, I think.  Available to civilians?  How much per round?

When you care enough to send the very best...

$2/round isn't awful for defensive ammo.  It's high, but not insane.

2600 fps out of the pistol, correct?  This isn't some switcheroo that is the MV out of the 16"?

Elite is claiming 2200 fps for T6B?

http://www.eliteammunition.com/#!/T6B/p/51287185/category=13357850

Ar57 is what you seek

There was a thread on here about a Tcm carbine

2200 fps is just over the 2100 fps line.  2600 would be far over the line, but where is that reported?  And for S4M, you have to send them loaded ammo for them to tear down & reload?

$2.27/round not counting shipping 2-3 times.  And that's a 1K round minimum.  

 We have a winner!

I've chrono'd SS197 ~1900 fps  IIRC

http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13441

On page 1, has S4M under 2500 fps.  That's a 4 year old post.  Got any more recent #s?

How many here suppress their Five Sevens?

I own 3 Five seveNs and a number of suppressors that would work fine on it. I shot a friend's suppressed Five seveN once and decided NOT to buy a threaded barrel. It is still quite loud and the blowback sucks. Some guns just don't suppress well. This is one of them. It is just NOT worth the investment. A quality threaded barrel is over $300 and we all know what a suppressor and tax stamp cost.

I should rephrase my question.  Got any velocities from someone other than the manufacturer?  2600 fps out of the pistol is a pretty bold claim.  It's pretty significant in terms of wound ballistics.  But we've all seen claims from promoters before.

T6B is currently 32gr. There is some confusion, because T6 used to be 28gr in both the "brass" and copper version.  Those velocities of T6B I have confirmed:









I was never able to get 2600 fps from the original T6 or Copper T6:














Along time ago I got S4 to go 2400 fps:








same with S4M:








I have only tested pre-production lots of S4M in new brass, and those were at SS198LF velocities. I will try and source a box of S4M current production for velocity verification. I would be optimistic to say it'd hit over 2450 fps. 2300-2400 fps is a more realistic (and at least verifiable from a few sources). I will add that in the end manufacturers do have a lot better test equipment then I do, so YMMV :D



 

Thanks.  That looks like rather expensive testing.

It sounds like:

a)  With the best ammo, the 5.7x28mm out of a pistol will certainly penetrate soft armor;

b)  With the fastest ammo, it will cross the 2000-2100 fps line for causing temporary stretch cavities to remain permanent.

With such light bullets, I wonder if such ammo will still be over 2100 fps @ 100 yds?  Ie, @ what range do we run into the M4/M855 pencil wound problem?

Given the expense, single source ammo supply for effective ammo, and lack of effective suppression (inherent in a supersonic round), it's an interesting path, but not one I'm likely to take.

a)I wouldn't say "Best". Any load capable of over 2050 fps or so, will penetrate most level IIIA panels. If you have a level IIIA that's a bare min standard, it will not end well for the armor.
based on some charts from the PS90, it looks like we can assume about a 300 fps drop out to 100 yards. I should try and test that someday.




Elite is not the only player in the game. There is also R&R Weapon Systems, Desert Ammo Supply, and Vanguard Outfitters.  DAS uses a lot of off the shelf bullets. Vanguard does as well, and some of their designs are not so graciously borrowed from EA and RR&WS. S&B is supposed to enter in the 5.7 game, but will likely be range ammo.




The 5.7 can be suppressed. Hearing safe from the supersonics, probably not ideal. Subsonic loads exist, and they will penetrate IIIA depending on the load. If you wanted an actual defensive subsonic, I'd rock this all day long:










 

So - the ability to pierce armor is nice, particularly out to 100 yds - but the ability to turn a temporary wound cavity into a permanent wound cavity is what interests me.  That requires generally a bullet traveling @ 2000-2100 fps or above.  But w/ 300 fps drop out to 100 yds, very few 5.7x28mm loads will not be pencil penetrators out @ 100 yds.

Nice to know there's more than one ammo supplier, as it would suck to get into this gun and then lose the ammo supply.

If I'm going subsonic, I'll just run off the shelf 135-147 grn loads in a Glock 26, and call it a day.  It's an interesting concept, particularly for those that feel the need to defeat vests or other cover.  I'm looking to standardize on Glock mags for most of my subsonic needs, and use 5.56x45mm when I need to poke through things.

I kind of want one. And a PS90 SBR.

Got mine ordered today!  Got one in FDE so it can match my 6.5CM.  Can't wait to try it out.  I'd been holding off on buying it because of the price, but over the last 6 months I've watched the prices creep up so I bit the bullet.

It'll go well with all the other "not necessary" calibers. (6.5CM and 50AE)

Not yet. The box of it and the Dev 2.0 to test next. Got a new block just for it :D

Will do!

OP here.

If I have 3 Five seveNs, you better believe I have a PS90 SBR!

*drools*

I have made a few more range trips since my last update. Just got back from an outing. Slipped out of the office for a couple of hours.

I now have over 1,627rounds through it. It continues to run without incident. Just clean accurate shooting. It has been over 500 rounds since the last cleaning and it looks like it was just cleaned inside and out.

It still amazes me how quickly I can bring this gun back on target shot after shot. The recoil is so mild and predictable.

Here are some groups from today. I drank a little too much coffee before heading out today for sure.

Here is a 21 round group from today. 10 yards rapid fire:




He is a 10 round group at 10 yards.

OP here with another update:

It is almost a year since I acquired my long-term tester Five Seven USG essentially new in the box. As of this past Friday, I have 1,897 rounds through it. I have cleaned this pistol three times over the year: When I got it, 700 rounds, and at 1300 rounds.

I have NOT had a single malfunction of any sort and it has been 100% reliable with all types of ammo. I mostly shoot SS197 as it has been $17.99 per box with free shipping from PSA for the last year. I have put some SS195, SS198, and EA T6B through it as well. But 97% of the ammo has been SS197.

I shot another 100 rounds on Friday. I shot the same 10 shot 10 yard groups pictured above. This pistol is quite boring in this way. It is a tack-driver. Given the mild recoil it is so easy to get back on target for quick and accurate follow-up shots. I would say about 40% easier than 9mm, meaning 5.7 has about 40% less recoil than 9mm. If T6B performs in human targets in remotely the same way it performs in pork shoulders and gel tests, the devastation from multiple follow-up shots would be absolutely brutal.

I also put  rounds through my other Five seveN. It is the gun I carry daily, a USG with the fixed factory night sights. I shot 25 rounds of T6B and 25 rounds of SS195. This gun is sighted in so T6B hits about 1" high at 10 yards. SS198 and SS195 are dead on at 10 yards. They hit to the same point of aim at 10 yards, and T6B 1" higher. You can really feel the extra kick from the T6B, it is noticeably hotter than SS198. SS198 is s hint hotter than SS195, but barely noticeable.

When I finished shooting my Long Term Five SeveN and was putting it back in my range bag, I found 3 rounds of SS197 at the bottom of my range bag. I posted a fresh target and sent it flying back to the end of the lane at the indoor range, which is 75 feet away. I loaded the 3 rounds and let them fly really quick. Here is the result:


75 Feet - Offhand - Rapid Fire - SS197


I have absolute confidence that T6B is equal to or exceeds the performance of the other major service handgun calibers. It offers three further advantages over the other major service calibers: 1) much faster accurate follow up shots. 2) 5.7x28 is a flat shooting cartridge and should easily shoot to point of aim out to 100 yards if necessary. Though you get further out past 100 yards, it loses quite a bit of energy (But so do the other service calibers). 3) T6B in particular will penetrate a Level IIIA vest and continue 19" into gel. None of the other major service calibers can do that. They won't even penetrate the vest.

Is it possible to load .30" Carbine into the magazine?  Is it possible to get more than 1 round in?

RANGE VISIT SUMMARY
This past Friday I slipped out of the office for a couple of hours. I only brought two guns with me to the range, my Glock 19 with a suppressor and RDS and my Five seveN MKI. I put 150 rounds through the Glock and 120 more rounds through my Five seveN.

Round Count = 2,017

Here is the last 10 shot group I fired.
Distance = 10 yards
Ammo = SS197
Rounds = 10
Shooting Style = Offhand 5 double taps in about 10 seconds

Because of its light recoil, the Five seveN is VERY easy to shoot well and accurately. The pistol is super accurate to being with. Dime or quarter size groups are easy to achieve with a little focus. It is also possible to achieve stellar results with Double-Taps and Rapid Fire. Five double taps at 10 yards in 10 seconds in a 2" group is pretty easy with this gun.




MALFUNCTION COUNT
ZERO.

I still have not had a single malfunction in the 2,017 rounds I have fired. No ammo related issues. Nothing. Not a single hiccup. SS197 accounts for over 95% of the ammo fired through this pistol. I have put a few rounds of SS195, SS198, and EA T6B. I do NOT run the 40gr American Eagle (made by Fiocchi) in my guns. I have had quality issues with this ammo in the past and I don't run it in my Five seveNs or PS90.


CLEANING - Over 700 Rounds Without a Cleaning
What really amazes me about this gun is how clean it runs. It simply does NOT get dirty. The last time the gun was cleaned was at 1300 rounds. The pictures below show what the internals look like after over 700 rounds. I simply removed the slide and barrel and took the pictures. I did not wipe or clean any part of the gun.

As you can see the gun basically looks like it was just cleaned. I don't know about you guys, but I hate cleaning my guns. I do it often, but would rather put the time toward other areas of the hobby. My Five seveNs are without question the cleanest running guns I own. In fact I would be hard pressed to think of a cleaner running gun. The obvious benefits are not having to clean the gun often and not having to worry about a malfunction related to gunk of dirt.

I also want to mention that my PS90 runs super clean as well. Even cleaner than the pistol. The operating system of the carbine is much more open than the pistol and there is really nowhere for carbon to build up. Just a little in the chamber and bolt face. Otherwise nothing gets dirty in the PS90. The Five seveN pistol and PS90 carbine are the cleanest running guns out there today as far as I can tell. Nothing comes close.

NOTE: The brass used for 5.7x28 ammo has a special coating on it. It is a special lacquer that acts a lubricant to helps the rounds feed and extract smoothly. Over time the lacquer will build up in the chamber. It is important to clean the chamber. I haven't cleaned it in 700 rounds, but i will probably clean the gun before my next outing. Not because it needs it, but just to make sure the chamber is clean and lacquer is not building up.












I continue to be beyond impressed with the Five seveN pistol. The Five seveN is an incredible package. It is a full sized pistol that carries 21 rounds and weighs less than 30 ozs loaded. A fully loaded spare magazine weighs 7.5 ozs (less than half the weight of a loaded Glock 17 mag). With the right ammo it send rounds downrange at 2400 fps and can penetrate barriers and armor like they are not even there. Accuracy is amazing. The mild recoil allows for stellar double tap and rapid fire performance. The Five seveN is utterly reliable and is almost maintenance free. Extremely impressive.

True...

Great gun, we have a bunch and carry a couple every day we're in the mtns...

We need something that's handy, light weight, extreme firepower and capacity for the package, a round that will go through the skull of a bear instead or ricocheting off into the woods...

SS197 is the rd we use...

Night sights for the 5-7...

Good enough for us...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/686350_Make-EXPEDIENT-TRITIUM-Night-Sights-for-the-Survivalist-for-abt--9.html

What if you bought a bunch of the projectiles before the batfe had a fit? Could one still load them for personal consumption?