I'd say a used Springfield would be the best choice. Either GI or Loaded.

I'm using a Sistema but I'm keeping the GI spur hammer and grip safety. I just like that look.
Waiting on KC to get the sights up and running then I'll use his ambi and sight set.
Videcki or whoever is making those triggers now. And I'll flatten a GI lanyard looped MSG.

You have a link? I can't find it. I'm going to jump on this...I always miss out on deals.

Im sent

Due to the awesome heads up from 03RN on a Loaded for sale, I'm back in the 1911 game. My last 1911 was 28 years ago when I purchased a Kimber Series 1. I ended up selling it to a good friend so I still get a chance to shoot it.
The funny thing is I added wrap-around Pachmayr's to my Kimber too...can't get away from them.


I've been reading this amazing thread from the beginning...so much incredible information/history. I'm about halfway into the thread (around 2013-ish) and had some questions about current status of parts.
Bare with me, I just finished a Mk12 build and that clone group can be a little specific when it comes to parts/eras which does make sense.

------I've seen both styles of wrap-around Pachmayr grips, the GM-45 #19 with the small bumps on the side and the #21, no bump and a smaller stripe.


The #21 is a lot more popular on MEU-SOCs but I've still seen quite a few pictures of the #19 on later models. Are both kosher since they've both been seen in the wild? I figure the Springfield Loaded/Ver 4 style would have more leeway on grip styles compared to the early versions.


------The Kings ambi was becoming a rare unicorn 2-3 years ago...I'm assuming it's almost impossible today. If building a MEU-SOC based on a Loaded (Ver 4-ish), what other ambis are acceptable? I would rather not go Ed Brown after catching myself a few times on my friend's 1911. Has anyone found an alternative that mimics that Kings lower profile shape? I'm not building an exact replica so I'll setting for a different brand as long as it's similar.


------Has Caspian got their shit together concerning the mainspring housing? A few years back people were complaining of wrong sized holes and fitting issues. If not Caspian, I figure the Smith & Alexander flat/checkered from Brownells should do the job.


------Just to make sure before ordering, the Ed Brown memory grip safety/beavertail is correct for the Ver 4?

-------Is the "MARSOC Trigger Pull Set Mfr Part: CS271B" on Brownells the correct setup for a Ver 4? Wasn't sure if that was designed for the later models.
I know trigger pull weight depends on the shooter's training/proficiency under stress...but what was the trigger pull range for an average MEUSOC gen 4?
My AR has a geissele SSA-E and I have shot a little IPSC in the past...to me 3lbs is perfect. Will that MARSOC kit above let me get down to that range?  (I'll be taking it to a gunsmith)



Thanks a lot....sorry for so many questions. Starting from the beginning of this thread has been a great read. Not sure why it was never stickied.
I friends that are just casual handgun shooters that have started reading the whole thread too.

Originally Posted By Regulatori:



------I've seen both styles of wrap-around Pachmayr grips, the GM-45 #19 with the small bumps on the side and the #21, no bump and a smaller stripe.
http://i.imgur.com/stL0hQZ.jpg

The #21 is a lot more popular on MEU-SOCs but I've still seen quite a few pictures of the #19 on later models. Are both kosher since they've both been seen in the wild? I figure the Springfield Loaded/Ver 4 style would have more leeway on grip styles compared to the early versions.

You'd be ok with either. I've seen more non-thumbswell ones on that variant, but pick what feels better.


------The Kings ambi was becoming a rare unicorn 2-3 years ago...I'm assuming it's almost impossible today. If building a MEU-SOC based on a Loaded (Ver 4-ish), what other ambis are acceptable? I would rather not go Ed Brown after catching myself a few times on my friend's 1911. Has anyone found an alternative that mimics that Kings lower profile shape? I'm not building an exact replica so I'll setting for a different brand as long as it's similar.

The KC is the closest thing available now (see previous page). If you want single sided, a Novak looks close too. The Ed brown is the correct version however, so you may want to look into ways of knocking down the problem area. Mine cut the web of my shooting hand before I hit it with a file. Night and day difference (if you describe the issue, you may get some help on how to work around it).
Edit: Read Variant 5... King's/KC would be correct

------Has Caspian got their shit together concerning the mainspring housing? A few years back people were complaining of wrong sized holes and fitting issues. If not Caspian, I figure the Smith & Alexander flat/checkered from Brownells should do the job.

Not really as of my last one. I would try EGW. They have a non serrated with holes for a lanyard loop. You would have to serrate it 20lpi but it would look much closer than the S&A. Trying your luck with a caspian is also an option.

------Just to make sure before ordering, the Ed Brown memory grip safety/beavertail is correct for the Ver 4?

It will not fit well. There will be a gap between the frame and an Ed brown (or any .250 radius safety). This may or may not bother you.

-------Is the "MARSOC Trigger Pull Set Mfr Part: CS271B" on Brownells the correct setup for a Ver 4? Wasn't sure if that was designed for the later models.
I know trigger pull weight depends on the shooter's training/proficiency under stress...but what was the trigger pull range for an average MEUSOC gen 4?
My AR has a geissele SSA-E and I have shot a little IPSC in the past...to me 3lbs is perfect. Will that MARSOC kit above let me get down to that range?  (I'll be taking it to a gunsmith)

Yes, but you may be fine with just a Tactical 2 set. The hammers are identical aesthetically and the tactical 2 is cheaper (Marsoc hammer comes blackened). If you plan on refinishing there isn't all that much reason to go with the MARSOC set. The hooks are allegedly taller to allow fitting but I would talk to your gunsmith as to what he actually does when he does a trigger job.  

Thanks a lot....sorry for so many questions. Starting from the beginning of this thread has been a great read. Not sure why it was never stickied.
I friends that are just casual handgun shooters that have started reading the whole thread too.

Keep mind MEU(SOC)s were built as combat pistols not show guns or safe queens.
Go back through the photos in this thread and you'll see plenty with gaps where the beavertail was fit.
To me a clone pistol with a gap shows attention to function. Not astethics.

That makes no sense.

Gaps mean gloves get cut and frayed, gaps mean sand gets into a juncture of two parts and end up seizing the safety up.

What he meant is that using .220 radius Springfield frames, it wouldn't be a smooth fit with the .250 radius Ed Brown.

I used to watch 2112s build these pistols, and generally they spent a lot of time blending the grip safety nice and high with as little gap as possible so it did not chafe the hand after a 500+ round session, or fray flight gloves. The grip safety is one of the main and most critical contact surfaces with the firing hand - care in assembly, which was there, is reflective of the intent for the gun to be used. Small, seemingly nit-noid issues arise when firing huge round counts over long periods.

Attention to detail = combat worthy.

S/F

Interesting. Thanks.

Go back and look at the early photos.
Gaps are evident.
And I highly doubt that a gap that small will fray gloves.
By that logic, a gap would damage a bare hand. My Springer has a gap and it's never caused any issues.
But we can disagree on this point.

The early MEU(SOC)s have gaps, as do production Colts, and Springfields. These are all results of haste or production line fitting where the frame is overcut to fit the beavertail quickly. A lot of the earlier guns looked crude but they also came in an era where bumps to help positive grip safety actuation, and high cuts weren't the norm.

You'll see that the later guns (such as the one the poster intends to build) with the Ed Brown grips safeties are extremely different in this regard. Not only did the Caspian frames have an option of coming pre cut for a relatively simple .250 radius, but the ability to have a high grip led to more blending and craftsmanship as GS5414 states. If you look back at the thread, you'll see that the Ed Brown beavertail guns are fit much closer. PWS2112's builds are a great example of this.

A poorly fitted beavertail can definitely cut... I've seen this, as have other people (this thread is a great example Sharp Ed Brown fitting job ) That said, I have had Springfields with gaps, and they have never cut my hands. That said my round count is far fewer than any of the people who have been issued these guns.

I'm not saying gaps are unbearable, I'm not knocking your Springfield for not looking like a Wilson or GI that I have admittedly never owned.  

There is however a difference in my mind between living with a gap that already exists, going out of my way to do so, or even spending money to do so (such as replacing a decent fitting and functioning grip safety with an ill fitting one). I would also not want to waste someone's money by directing them to buy a part not designed to fit with their frame when there's other money to be spent. That's the general direction from which all my advice comes from.

Thanks everyone for the help. Since I had started from the beginning of this thread and only about halfway through, I didn't get to a lot of the newer info from the past few pages.

A few nights ago I got to the point in the thread concerning the terrible news about hobbs5624.  That's a real kick in the gut after learning so much from his posts/progression up that point and then hearing about his back story. RIP.

Wow, looks like I jumped into cloning at the right time for these....great to see KC offering replica parts. After reading about some of the members buying complete used guns just for the Kings ambi made me realize this is a dedicated bunch!!!

I'll probably start with the KC ambi and then Caspian mainspring housing. They still have a page for it on their website.


>>>Anyone know of the paint pens used by the armorers for the blue grip numbers? We had Skilcraft pens (white) for serialized gear but I never saw any blues or green. Wasn't sure if there was a brand/model that writes on rubber and can stand up to the abuse seen on a grip. I've painted my MK12 but it seems the rubber on the grips was the first thing to wear.
(BTW...here is a chance to post whore my recently built gun: Pic of my MK12 Mod H )

>>>Not exactly a clone question but the Springfield Loaded I'm getting comes with 2 nicer (black coated) magazines, carry holster, 2 mag carrier, and cleaning rod. Looking at "unboxing" videos on youtube I see a lot of the Springfield Loaded versions coming with two silver magazines and nothing more. Is there older/newer packaging?

Thanks again for the help everyone.

Don't need to look. I've shot the old ones lots, and the newest version ones more. It was a concern that arose after firing 20,000+ rounds a year of TZZ hardball.

As soon as the Caspian frames got tweaked to work better with .250 radius grip safeties, that stuff (gaps and other quirks) went away. Older versions demanded strange contouring and were of lesser quality. The guns went through an evolutionary phase through their service life and got better. Attention to detail improved over the years. The fact remains that attention to detail is warranted for guns that will see hard use. Attention to detail = functionality. Functionality isn't just mechanical, but a human/user element remains that was and should always be considered.

S/F

Going back through all the pics I really started to like pachymer grips. My new/used loaded came with them but I replaced them with some VZs without even shooting with the pachymers.

My biggest reason for switching them out was because the don't hold the plunger tube in incase the staking fails. I don't know how big a problem that is but a former mentor made it seem like a big deal for a carry gun.

How big a deal is it really?

Attached File

I found a really cheap springfield mil spec with pachmayr grips locally. It has the older crossed cannons slide, an NM frame, and is blued. How hard would it be to get the correct (clarks?) grip safety and thumb safety? I have an old beat up Colt WW1 era lanyard loop mainspring housing I could put on it.

Was thinking of a variant 1 of course but don't want to pay a million $ in obsolete parts

Cost depends on how far you want to go. The parts most visible are the grips, sights, beavertail, thumb safety, mainspring housing, hammer, and trigger. Internally you may be at an advantage because certain older models had 45 firing pins. If you do the work yourself you can keep costs down. I think C&H precision was charging $600 to build MEU(SOC) a while back but that may have changed pricing.

Replica thumb safety is $165 and readily available
Replica Beavertail is $80 and available
Triggers are under $30 if I recall
Mainspring housing you have
Pachmayrs you have
Hammer cost depends on what brand you get
Sights depend on whether you wait for KC or eBay hunt (not sure about price)

If you do the internals that cost goes up. For me the toughest part is probably front sight installation (proper installation requires milling a flat, I believe), and refinish. Beavertail and barrel are time consuming but can be done carefully by hand.

It's more than double that, even when you provide all the parts. They are building one for me now.

Thank you for the info! It seems that I have quite a few of the parts already and am definitely capable of fitting a beavertail. I fit a beavertail to my Colt last year. Is there a fixture for cutting the beavertail for these older grip safeties? I feel like it may be really hard without a fixture.

In addition, I forgot to add that I have another mainspring housing I bought at a gunshow a few years ago which is a milled down arched WW2 lanyard loop one. All I would need to do would be serrate it. So probably around $300 in extra parts not including sights. The sights on the springfield milspec look similar so would do for the meantime.

Didn't think that original price would last very long, and I can certainly understand an increase. Thanks for the confirmation.

Btw, xoldsmugglerx, I think this is the jig to use http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/298932/wilson-combat-beavertail-grip-safety-fitting-fixture-1911?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Gunsmithing - Tools, Jigs & Fixtures-_-Wilson Combat-_-298932&gclid=CPOs7IWAkNICFdiEswodVnsG7w
You may want to confirm with KC though that it is a Wilson compound radius. I just assumed it was but now I'm not so sure.

Not sure if this is ok to do but there is a Kimber DET-1 listed on GB. Not posting link but simple enough to find.

Apologies if this is in wrong section, thought it applicable to this discussion.

I can see both sides of it but I've yet to experience (or hear about from any of my 1911 nerd friends) a plunger tube falling off. If I remember correctly, they tend to gradually loosen first since they're staked in two different places. Guess you could add a tiny drip of red loctite where the frame/tube mate together just to be extra safe.

I've carried 1911's in the past and had long conversations with my 1911 pals regarding possibly carrying/reliability issues....but I can't remember the last time plunger tube failures were even discussed. This is all anecdotal but just my experience.

That's a good point about it more than likely happening slowly. I tend to inspect while I clean so hopefully I'll pic it up before it goes tits up.

Longevity and round counts

Exactly.
Most people that spend time on a gun forum tend to be more hands-on and can usually spot issues developing before they happen. It's kind of like car owners. Soon as something feels or looks "off," most will investigate....but there are others that ignore the issue which turns catastrophic at a later date.

I have one friend that bought a Springfield mil-spec because he's a WW2 nut....but his idea of "cleaning" involves wiping the slide down of fingerprints. If I did a basic field strip and left it for him, he would need a youtube tutorial to get it back together. Nothing wrong with that (he's just more of a history guy than a gun guy) but that's the type of person I imagine getting a loose plunger tube but never noticing until it falls completely off.


Back to the clone thread....

Was there a specific Otis cleaning kit supplied...and if so, what MEU-SOC/M45 model did that start with? Just curious if they were issued a combo 9mm/45mm/etc.. kit or it came with a straight .45 one.

Has anyone messed around with one of those Surefire clip-on lights? Are they durable or a POS?

are you talking about the old 310/610R models? I have one. Worked great then broke... sent back to surefire and they made it as good as new... the old bulbs suck but if you do an LED drop in they are useable...

There is a parts kit on GunBroker just search for  MEU 1911
Neil

Not bad. Everything you need for current build.

Hello all, I'm a longtime fan of MEU(SOC) .45. Got the bug back in '03 but never pursued a build. Many years later I'm still intrigued so I've decided to get serious about acquiring parts for an eventual build. I have only posted a few times on the AR15 forums and quite honestly it's been years since. So with that in mind I wanted to introduce myself to you all specifically in this thread...which must be the single greatest source of info regarding the MEU(SOC) .45 outside of PWS.

I plan to finish reading this epic thread before I post any questions in hopes to avoid redundancy. I'm on page 29 now and was saddened to read about Hobbs5624. I never knew him beyond his posts in this thread but after several hours of seeing his contributions and interaction with everyone here I got the sense that he was a great guy. A tragic loss. May he rest in peace.

And so it begins...

Those are looking better and better to me

I'm actually surprised at how much I like the pachymers. I'll put the VZ grips back on when/if I get the front strap checkered. But for now the pachymers give me the control I want.

Today

Regarding the KC Kustom's grip safety. Is the KC Kustom supposed to be a replica of the Clark? In the pictures I notice what appears to be a ridge or a flat on the side of the beavertail portion of the grip safety whereas the beavertail portion of the Clark appears to have a smooth, fully rounded surface. Has anyone else noticed this or can anyone confirm either way? I feel that this visual cue on the Clark grip safety is one of the most distinct characteristics of the MEU(SOC) .45s. Thanks in advance for any info regarding this.

You are correct. The standard Clark is very soapbar like. This shape does not always work aesthetically with the flat sides of the frame and slide (at least for some). Many gunsmiths end up flattening the sides and carrying it (the flat) around the back of the beavertail (see John Hobbs' build). The KC seems to be pre-flattened in some of these areas. It's an easy "fix" though. Clamp it in a vise and shoe shine the edges with a strip of 400 or coarser sandpaper until you reach the desired result. Good luck with your build!

Thanks for the clarification Parabellum226. This info is another piece of the puzzle for me. Yeah, I love that rounded beavertail. The Variant 1 is my Grail 1911 and in the pics I've seen of these early MEU(SOC) .45s the beavertail was left rounded which is the first thing that caught my eye when the first time I saw one...followed by the rear sight. I've been looking for a Clark or Wilson 66 for ages with no luck so at this point it can't hurt for me to order a KC Kustom and round that edge off as you suggest. Thanks again!

Regarding Dawson Rails...when did these first start appearing on MEU(SOC) .45?
More specifically, does anyone know if any Variant 1 era pistols were fitted with them without getting other mods seen in later variant's?
I'm kinda guessing the answer is no because these early pistols were built prior to railed pistol lights being a thing. That said, I could easily be wrong which is why I ask.
Thanks

To my knowledge, the Dawson only appeared on the Kimber ICQB.

The surefire 310/610 would be the correct light for an early build and these lights do not require a rail to mount.

Wow, I didn't realize that the Dawson rail wasn't utilized until the ICQB. Thanks.

Darn straight.....100+ years later and this design is still a go to weapon.

Realized I haven't posted a pic of my ongoing MEUSOC project. Going to pick up a Caspian mainspring housing/lanyard next and then dye both the collar and barrel black.

Here it is with its two big brothers. :)    (If this isn't allowed, I'll go ahead and edit/take a picture of JUST the 1911)

Mk12 Mod H, M24, and the Loaded.  

Attached File


I say it's good

How are you dyeing the ss?

So I have a mil spec and want to make a variant 2. Any idea where I can find the parts? And who to send it out to?

In the meanwhile I did order one of those decommissioned m45a1 on gb to hold me over....

Hopefully this is relevant to this thread, but anyone see these on GB?  http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631223588
How did they get to the public market?  Or is this BS?

Not very often you can buy issued guns anymore. The cerakote finish is laughable for a hard use gun. I'm glad they are ionbonded now.

I wish I had the money to buy one for the gun wall

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/174920_Decommisioned-M45A1.html.

Interesting...

I'm hoping the experts here can guide me in the right direction. I'm going to try my hand at building a meusoc clone with a Casian frame and trying to figure out exactly which to order. Best I can determine from reading the entire thread is a basic receiver, series 70 with an integral plunger. For the feed ramp options on the Casian website, is it .45 acp? (The other options are Clark/para or Wilson/nowlin supported ramp cut). For the beavertail, it's .250 radius and not standard gi or Casian/Wilson. And no front strap checking because it's covered by the pach grips I think. Thanks in advance!

I read this whole thread while I was supposed to be working this week and now I've just scooped up two Springfield slides on ebay to start with.

Thanks.

Not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn.

(For the latest variant with the Novak Springfield slides) Basic series 70 with a 45 feed ramp, integral plunger tube, and 250 radius would get you the closest to where you need to be. Brownells already has one set up like that and from what I recall it ends up being cheaper.

http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j0miprnnjf00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fhandgun-parts%2Fframe-parts%2Fframes%2F1911-receiver-w-250-radius-integral-plunger-tube-prod27402.aspx?avs%7cPrice_1=80xzzx00%2bTO%2b299xzzx99

Mine fit well, but consider getting it without any radius cuts if you intend to have a gunsmith do the beavertail fitting. That may give your smith more control.

Came across this on gunbroker... not sure of the fit, but if someone was looking to get a base pistol for an early gen 1 variant, this looks like it has the clark or Wilson grip safety and ring hammer already installed...

the way I see it, remove the garbage parts and throw on a new main spring housing and slide stop, and snag those newly made retro parts (the clone kings thumb safety) and the sight sets floating around on here and you would have yourself a pretty decent clone...

just saying so... although I think 850 for the pistol is a bit much

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631021589

Thanks for the heads-up!

Just bought it.

Still need a front sight, safety and Bar-sto bbl.

Awesome man, looking forward to seeing your retro build!