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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:37:01 PM EDT
Are these things as finicky as I think they are? I seem to see alot of the people that shoot them having trouble at the IDPA matches that I attend. The biggest problem appears to be that they don't lock back the slid on the last round.

Who's still making them? What's the consensus on the "best" ones (new or used)? What sort of magazine options do you have? How many of the parts are interchangeable with the .45 variety? Are threaded/extended barrels available for suppressing?

Single stack models only please.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:40:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:49:43 PM EDT
I have a Colt 9mm. Dosent work worth a shit. Needs 124 grains or more just to work the action. Wont shoot 115 grain consiently. I Really enjoy shooting .45 better.

Travis
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:41:19 PM EDT
I've seen several that work fine, but never owned one. One friend has a Springfield that has worked great for the past 4 years with factory ammo or light reloads. Another has 2 Colts, 1 of which is fitted with a 38 Super barrel and a 9x23 barrel. Both of those run great.

A 9mm 1911 is a lot of fun to shoot, no recoil and brass just flops at your feet. If I can ever find one at a good price I wouldn't mind having one.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:10:41 PM EDT
If you have the money, it is worth getting one just for fun. I built one from a deal I got on gunbroker and a Caspian frame. It has yet to choke and is accurate as hell. Cheap to shoot to. It won't replace my 45s, but for fun it's great. Magazines are crucial though. Metalforms or Kimbers work well.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:22:48 PM EDT
Funny, "we have now come full cirlce," ie "what is old is now new." 20 years ago, Colt couldn't give those 9mm 1911 away, they had to sell these gun at a substantial discount over their 45ACP cousins.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:29:40 AM EDT
The slide is too heavy for the 9mm to actuate reliably. Get a commander version, preferably the alloy framed model, and it will be every bit as relevant for training as a .45 gov't model. 1/rd less recoil, but 1/3rd less wt of gun = same recoil. In a GM, you'll have to play around with lighter springs and if you really want reliablility, the 147-160 gr bullets, loaded pretty hot.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:10:16 AM EDT
I've got an older Commander in 9mm that is as reliable as you could ask for. In recent years, Kimber and Springfield both made 9mms.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:47:46 PM EDT
I had a custom 9mm made out of (of all things) a Rock Island. I recently sold it to a fellow USPSA shooter. It was a solid pistol and ran fine with ball and hollowpoints. I put about 7,500 rounds through it with one stovepipe.

I still have a Kimber Target II. Other than some issues with the Series II safety, the gun has been 100% reliable. I run a 14 pound recoil spring. The gun always feeds and always goes to slide lock.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:53:51 PM EDT
Mine is 100% reliable. I use MecGar mags:

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:18:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 9:33:06 PM EDT by yobo]
The short answer is yes, they usually are finicky as they are doing something they were not designed to do.

The reliability problems associated with 1911 pistols in 9mm caliber is due to the overall length of the cartridge. The 1911 pistol and its magazine was originally designed to operate with the traditional 230gr FMJ ball ammo which usually has OAL of 1.250” to 1.275”. The 9mm cartridge usually has OAL of about 1.150”. The shorter OAL of 9mm requires longer path for the cartridge to travel when moving from magazine to chamber. The magazine also has to have spacer at the front or the rear of the magazine to manage the shorter cartridge.

There are some ways around this problem that can result in reliable pistol. If you reload 9mm you can load your cartridges longer than usual. A trick I tried was to load 145gr cast bullets out to 1.190” to 1.195” and use 38 super magazines but this requires you to have the chamber cut with longer lead to compensate for longer bullet. It does work reliably but you have to use handloads. Another trick is to use magazines that sit a little higher in the frame than usual but this is costly to have done. I also “opened” the rear of the magazine a little to let the cartridge sit a little higher so the breech face has a little more to “grab” when coming forward. Finally, use 10 to 12 lb recoil spring if you shoot non +P factory loads. I believe the standard factory spring is 13 or 14 lb but this will work reliably all the time if you shoot with your arm in locked position… if you have to shoot one handed or with weak wrist it will short stroke. I used 11 lb recoil spring in my guns and it worked all the time and my brass would land 4 or 5 feet to the right.

Currently Kimber and SA still make 1911 designs in 9mm caliber. I don't know which works better but my guess would be that Kimber. Most of the frame components are interchangable between calibers except the ejector and magazine while everything on the slide is different except the firing pin stop. You can get threaded barrel from several manufacturers. Personally a 1911 in 9mm would not be my first choice for supressing.

In reality the most effective way to shoot 9mm reliably in the 1911 pistol is to get the 9x23mm and load it to 9x19mm power. 9x23mm is an amazing cartridge capable of giving some amazing power yet work reliably at standard 9mm power level.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:51:25 AM EDT
Well, at this past Saturday's IDPA match I watched two guys run theirs without hiccups, but I know that they also both put $500 worth of aftermarket parts into them to get them to do so. I talked to one of the guys about it and he said he hadn't even fired it stock, but that he thought that the AFTEC extractor would cure 90% of the issues.

This is pretty far down on my list, but I'd like to maybe eventually have something for the girlfriend to shoot.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:01:09 AM EDT
I have 2 stock commanders in 9mm & never had a problem. Sold off a NIB 70 series Govt model for silly $$$ Cant speak for Govt models but the Commanders are great!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:21:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Well, at this past Saturday's IDPA match I watched two guys run theirs without hiccups, but I know that they also both put $500 worth of aftermarket parts into them to get them to do so. I talked to one of the guys about it and he said he hadn't even fired it stock, but that he thought that the AFTEC extractor would cure 90% of the issues.

This is pretty far down on my list, but I'd like to maybe eventually have something for the girlfriend to shoot.



Dumping money into a 1911 to get it running is pretty much par for the course.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Well, at this past Saturday's IDPA match I watched two guys run theirs without hiccups, but I know that they also both put $500 worth of aftermarket parts into them to get them to do so. I talked to one of the guys about it and he said he hadn't even fired it stock, but that he thought that the AFTEC extractor would cure 90% of the issues.

This is pretty far down on my list, but I'd like to maybe eventually have something for the girlfriend to shoot.


Dumping money into a 1911 to get it running is pretty much par for the course.


So, we'll just go ahead and put your name in the "I have no idea what I'm talking about" column. Thanks for stopping by.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:04:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Well, at this past Saturday's IDPA match I watched two guys run theirs without hiccups, but I know that they also both put $500 worth of aftermarket parts into them to get them to do so. I talked to one of the guys about it and he said he hadn't even fired it stock, but that he thought that the AFTEC extractor would cure 90% of the issues.

This is pretty far down on my list, but I'd like to maybe eventually have something for the girlfriend to shoot.


Dumping money into a 1911 to get it running is pretty much par for the course.


So, we'll just go ahead and put your name in the "I have no idea what I'm talking about" column. Thanks for stopping by.



Whatever.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:55:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
This is pretty far down on my list, but I'd like to maybe eventually have something for the girlfriend to shoot.



Why not just handload some mild 180 or 185 gr 45ACP loads for her? If you load 180 or 185gr bullet to about 830 fps the recoil is very mild yet will operate in any 45ACP pistol.

My wife prefers to shoot such mild load over 9mm as she claims the recoil of the 9mm is sharper and bothers her more than the gentle push of the 45.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:06:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:06:31 AM EDT by in_burrito]

Originally Posted By yobo:
Why not just handload some mild 180 or 185 gr 45ACP loads for her? If you load 180 or 185gr bullet to about 830 fps the recoil is very mild yet will operate in any 45ACP pistol.


I may just wind up doing that. I doubt my regular 200 grain SWC loads are much worse than a 9mm. She hasn't gotten to the pistols yet as we spent alot of time with the AR (in .22LR and 5.56) last time we were out at Markham. We'll see how she does once we get a chance to shoot the handguns.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:13:08 AM EDT
I was two lanes down from a LTC who ran Pat Roger's course with a 9mm Kimber Target.

Never once had an issue. On top of that, he was extremely accurate at any distance between 50yds and 3yds.

Don't know if that is the norm, but it was my only observation on the 9mm 1911's.

He stated it was factory with no modifications. He also stated that he chose it because the other choice was to give up shooting altogether due to some issues with his wrist or elbow. The 45acp had heavier recoil and he couldn't sustain it.

FWIW...
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:16:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 10:16:34 AM EDT by Bubbatheredneck]

If JMB had wanted you to run 9mm in his pistol, he would have designed it that way....oh wait, he did. He calls it the Hi Power though.

Get one.

It never ceases to amaze me how many try to take a successful design and screw it up.

1911 in 45ACP to something else
G17 into a G22
AR in .223 into 7.62
Garand in 30-06 into 308
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:26:33 AM EDT
THE fastest shooter at our IDPA match shoots a Kimber Stainless TLEII in 9mm. He's accurate and fast.

You've got 40ounces of steel to tame the already negligible recoil of the 9mm. It's a natural pointer with the 1911 grip angle.

For IDPA, from my somewhat limited experience is the route to go. Hell, we're limited to 10+1 rounds in the gun anyway so I'm hard-pressed to find a reason why not to get one for her.

I believe he spoke with Kimber and they made him one (it wasn't a custom shop model, but he couldn't find one in-stock anywhere).

By the way, I don't own a 1911 in 9mm. I shoot what I carry in our matches (USPc .40 w/ night sights).
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:24:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
AR in .223 into 7.62



Psst....

The AR family was in 7.62 first.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
AR in .223 into 7.62



Psst....

The AR family was in 7.62 first.



Don't go quotin history, I'm on a roll.

You probably think it was wrong to attack Germany when they bombed Pearl Harbor too.

D@mn revisionists.


Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:32:44 AM EDT
If you would get over your fixation on "single stack only" - then there are a ton of reliable 2011s and 1911s in both 9mm minor and 9Major on www.brianenos.com.

As for the target/bullseye/ppc crowd, I don't shoot those games; I only shoot IDPA/USPSA but I understand that the target/bullseye/ppc crowd is finally figuring out that 9mm is more accurate. I think they might use single stacks. Reliabiity is no problem in the bullseye game since you get an "alibi" or do-over every time your gun jams in rapid fire.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
AR in .223 into 7.62



Psst....

The AR family was in 7.62 first.



Don't go quotin history, I'm on a roll.

You probably think it was wrong to attack Germany when they bombed Pearl Harbor too.

D@mn revisionists.









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