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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:06:10 PM EDT
[#1]
People aren't going to give up the looks of a beavertail.
As far as the safety goes, you can be sure it is for liability purposes. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:33:29 PM EDT
[#2]
www.novaksights.com/what's_new.htm#NOVAK_ONE_PIECE_BACK_STRAP_ANSWER
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:35:22 PM EDT
[#3]
 Novak |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:42:14 PM EDT
[#4]
because it works.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:52:00 PM EDT
[#5]
I know you can get custom 1911s without the grip safety. I was referring to the big manufacturers. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:54:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes, it works, but what purpose does it serve? Hand cranks on cars worked too, but you don't see many these days. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:57:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Cool. 
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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:16:45 PM EDT
[#8]
The grip safety is a GREAT feature.
What other safety can you think of that requires ZERO instruction or thought to operate? Its operation is totally automatic, completely user friendly and unobtrusive, and yet it's extremely effective at achieving its function of rendering the gun safe and unfireable if it should fall or is not held in a shooting grip? The fact that it's overlooked so often means that it's one of the most efficiently designed and implemented safety devices of all time. As far as I'm concerned, a grip safety should be part of the design of every handgun. There are no drawbacks to them! A safety feature that you operate automatically and without thought. No training required. PERFECT. CJ |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 6:36:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Big +1 CJ. Charles the Gunsmith.
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Posted: 3/24/2006 7:09:23 PM EDT
[#10]
 That gives me nightmares just thinking about it.
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Posted: 3/24/2006 7:15:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Not really a safety, but still offers much of the same function: 
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Posted: 3/24/2006 7:23:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Tell me what's wrong with a gun that has an additional safeguard against firing and shooting you in the head if you drop it, please? Particularly when that safeguard requires no training or thought to operate when using the gun? Where are the drawbacks? Do you object to the presence of safety belts in every car, too? CJ |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 8:22:36 PM EDT
[#13]
A drop safety(which exists in almost all modern autos) is different in that it is internal and has nothing to do with the outward functioning. Series 80 Colts have the internal drop safety, so what is the point of retaining the grip safety as a "drop" safety. The seat belt is not a valid comparison becuase you can choose to wear it(which I do.) Neither is an airbag because, like an internal drop safety, it does nothing unless and accident occurs. A more realistic comparison to the grip safety would be a pressure plate in the driver's seat that would not allow you to put the car in gear unless you were seated a certain way. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 11:54:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Although the topic is a valid discussion point, the reply above should settle it. What does the thread's author want to hear? That we should all agree to (his perception of) the uselessness of the grip safety? Us 1911 fundamentalists love the design of the 1911 as it stands. No converts here thank you. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 12:19:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Holy s@@@! That almost makes me want to get another 1911! No grip safety, I didn't know you could do that! More excellent knowledge gained from ar15.com 
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Posted: 3/25/2006 12:56:49 AM EDT
[#16]
I'll Keep it simple
Pro: cmjohnson argument Con: one more thing to break at the wrong time If we were designing a pistol today, I might find the latter statement somewhat persuasive given the bugs that accompany new technology. HOWEVER, the 1911 has demonstrated for nearly a century that the grip safety is reliable and thus, it makes sense to capitalize on its benefits if there are no appreciable drawbacks. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:22:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Triburst, I am not sure that series '80 Colts have a drop safety. I think it is a firing pin safety. Charles.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:23:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Have you EVER heard of a grip safety failing or breaking?
No? Me, neither. So the "con" argument is unsupportable. Leaving only the "pro"s. CJ |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:49:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Hmm I find myself in complete agreement with cmjohnson. How wierd is that.....
 My 1911s have a grip safety and in 14 years of shooting them I've never had it fail. My wife's XD has a grip safety and it's never failed either. I would feel much better about glocks if they had a grip safety and damned sure less people would have been shot in the foot upon reholstering if they were so equipped. ( negligence in allowing the thumb break to enter the triggerguard, sure it's a training issue but a grip safety would have prevented it!) |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 5:11:06 AM EDT
[#20]
On the other hand, there's no shortage of shooters that I've seen, including myself, that can not always depress the grip safety enough to have it fire. This happens drawing from a holster.
Particulary if you have a high hold with your thumb on the safety. The grip safety doesn't prevent an AD if dropped. The firing pin can still detonate the primer unless you have a Kimber or S&W which has a FP block acitivated by the grip safety. So, on a standard 1911, I don't see the purpose of the grip safety at all. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 6:26:47 AM EDT
[#21]
You've never heard of a grip safety failing? Ummm... you haven't shot enough of them. The grip safety itself may not "fail" but a person who grips the gun slightly wrong can fail to disengage it. I've seen it happen many times. Why do you think most manufacturers now use the speed bump grip safety? Its because this is a known and regular problem. A person holding the gun with the tumb riding the safety can easily fail to depress the safety enough so the bump was added. The bump though, isn't as comfortable as a smooth one. Its a band-aid fix. There is another band-aid fix and that is the "sensitize" the grip safety. By doing this, its entirely possible to accidently disable it entirely. This is a real problem on a carry gun. I wouldn't want to suffer the liability issues involved in disabling a safety device even if its not needed. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 7:52:03 AM EDT
[#22]
I've seen this too. However it involves the shooter not obtaining a correct grip while in the holster before the draw, nothing a little coaching and lots of PRACTICE won't cure.
Firing Pin blocks on 1911's are a fix to a problem that doesn't exist. Drop testing of the original 1911 by the Military prior to its adoption proved that. Prior to the FBI adopting the Springfield Pro it was subjected to riggaress drop testing (without a Firing Pin Block) before being adopted. Recent Military purchases of 1911's have NOT INCLUDED the Firing Pin Block.  Can it happen? Sure it can, about as often as pigs fly.
What about non standard 1911s?  Simple if you don't like the grip safety you can pin it. Or replace it with the NOVAK unit. 
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:01:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Again this is a SHOOTER problem, not a design problem. Why do you think most manufacturers now use the speed bump grip safety? Its because this is a known and regular problem. A person holding the gun with the tumb riding the safety can easily fail to depress the safety enough so the bump was added. The bump though, isn't as comfortable as a smooth one. Its a band-aid fix. It is a manufacturing fix to compensate for people that don't or won't get proper training and practice. I have 1911's both with and without the "hump" and in 30 years I've never failed to engauge the grip safety.
I've yet to see anyone that can show precident to this alledged liability. I certainly don't think Novak would be marketing their replacement unit that eliminates the grip safety is such liability were real. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:40:23 AM EDT
[#24]
I wouldn't be worried about a correct grip while practicing. I would be worried about a correct grip while a 240 lb felon was trying to wrestle the gun away from me. It would really suck to have a pistol pressed against the ribs of a guy who was trying to kill you and not able to pull the trigger because you could not obtain a proper grip. JMB didn't think the 1911 or the Hi-Power needed a grip safety. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:45:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Myself and many of those I shoot with require sensitized beavertails because we grab the gun as high as humanly possible.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:47:05 AM EDT
[#26]
If only HK would incorporate that feature into their other pistols... 
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Posted: 3/25/2006 9:30:32 AM EDT
[#28]
I think the vast majority of "ADs" are actually NDs by some dipshit with his hand wrapped around the grip and his finger on the trigger.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 10:42:15 AM EDT
[#29]
You obviously are one of those NEEDING professional instruction. You apparently lack wisdom and skill in situational awareness, unarmed self defense and basic gunhandling. Obviously the 1911 is not the tool for you, may I suggest a hammer. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 11:17:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Actually, I have had over 100 hours of professional, formal(i.e. paid classes) handgun training. I have had many more hours of weapon and unarmed combat training from a personal friend and range buddy. He is a veteran of Army Special Forces, was the commander of a large city SWAT team, and now does contract combat training of air marshalls for the Dept. Of Justice. I fire about 8000 rounds a year through my personal sidearm and feel quite confident in my ability with it. No matter how good one is, shit CAN happen, and you can find yourself in a bad situation. Nice to know that you resort to personal insults because I dared question a feature of your favorite handgun. I would have hoped you were more mature than that.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 11:41:46 AM EDT
[#31]
All of my friends and I shoot 1911s. We shoot almost weekly. I have had female friends who go shooting with us, at times some of them have never held a gun before. Never seen a grip safety cause a misfire, ever. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 11:46:00 AM EDT
[#32]
As I stated previously, I do not question the grip safety causing a problem when punching paper. I am talking about ECQ weapon retention situation where a proper grip may not be possible. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 3:15:21 PM EDT
[#33]
It's virtually impossible to hold a 1911 in ANY sort of reasonable shooting position without depressing the grip safety lever. The comment about obtaining a proper grip during a tight situation is bogus for that reason.
TRY to hold a 1911 in your hand and shoot it in such a way that the grip safety keeps it from firing. I think you'll find that it's extremely difficult to avoid pressing the grip safety even if you're TRYING to avoid it. CJ |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 3:45:52 PM EDT
[#34]
I do it all the time. My hand sits that high on the gun. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:21:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Based on your above (I wouldn't be worried about a correct grip while practicing.) comment you weren't paying attention and wasted your money as well as your friends time. Your confidence level is call UNCOUNTIOUSLY INCOMPETENT. No matter how good one is, shit CAN happen, and you can find yourself in a bad situation. While this is true it is minimized by proper situational awareness training and application, which you appear not to have.
Personal insults? I think you may need remedial reading comprehension as well. I made no insult, only expressed my opinion on your apparent lack of ability and skill. An opinion I still hold. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:34:32 PM EDT
[#36]
I think your friend screwed you out of your training time. What sort of situtaion will come up where you would not be able to grip your weapon properly? Now, in whatever situation you come up with, would you be any better served by a weapon without a grip safety, such as, say, a Glock, even though you were STILL unable to attain a proper grip? |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:40:16 PM EDT
[#37]
If you dont like the grip safety, just wrap 100mph tape around it and it keep it depressed 24/7. Works for guys like Scott Reitz
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Posted: 3/25/2006 4:44:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Who pissed in your Wheaties? |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 5:11:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Don't eat Wheaties. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 6:24:23 PM EDT
[#40]
I guess Moderator means something other than what I thought.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 6:43:32 PM EDT
[#41]
The only way i found was to hold the pistol upside down,+backwards,+by the slide while trying to shoot over yor left shoulder at a 45 degree upward angleh.gif also(triburst1) if you are so concerned about the grip safety and it's "ability to not properly function under those exreme circumstances" use the $0.02 solution. wrap a rubber band around the grip. Finally if you truly doubt the reliability of the 1911 don't carry it! um juzt a dumm un edukated rednek butt thats juzt my o'pinyun |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 6:48:11 PM EDT
[#42]
 Vic is going to waste your ass for killing Lem.
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Posted: 3/25/2006 7:12:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Nevermind. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 7:36:26 PM EDT
[#44]
So if the gun required the shooter to enter a 7 digit combination before each shot, and the shooter did not enter it correctly, this would be a shooter problem and not a design problem? This negates cmj's argument about how the grip safety "requires ZERO instruction or thought to operate". |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 7:53:34 PM EDT
[#45]
yes he probably will and i know i deserve it |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 7:55:14 PM EDT
[#46]
That's kind of like exactly the opposite of the idea of a grip safety. A grip safety is supposed to require no extra steps other than to hold onto the pistol. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:28:07 PM EDT
[#47]
So the argument is as follows? (1) A grip safety requires no extra training or thought to operate. (2) If empirical evidence indicates that some people have been unable to fire a weapon because they did not properly actuate the grip safety, it was because they didn't have training and weren't properly actuating it. Did I get that right? 
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:35:16 PM EDT
[#48]
That pretty much sums it up. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:48:16 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 3/25/2006 8:58:18 PM EDT
[#50]
If you're uncomfotable with it then dont carry a pistol that is so equipped. For the vast majority of shooters it's fine. Triburst, you've stated before that you dont own a 1911 and wouldnt keep one if given one. Why bother posting in a forum dedicated to something you've never owned and have no intention of owning?
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also(triburst1) if you are so concerned about the grip safety and it's "ability to not properly function under those exreme circumstances" use the $0.02 solution. wrap a rubber band around the grip. Finally if you truly doubt the reliability of the 1911 don't carry it! um juzt a dumm un edukated rednek butt thats juzt my o'pinyun