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Posted: 3/21/2006 4:56:44 PM EDT
i have always wanted to do some IPSC shooting and now that i can finally afford to Its time. So I am needing a little help suggestion.

I am looking for a HIGH quality base "entry lvl 1911" Pistol that i can build slowly into a super race gun "as ability and funds warrant"

A few things I know i do want is a .45 stainless :) I am looking to spend around 1k for the initial buy.

I have been going through the Kimber catalog and am curious exactly what are the differences between the "Kimber Stainless II" and the "Kimber Target Stainless II" I am sure the "Kimber Stainless Gold Match II" would be a great start but i am sure this is beyond my budget.

any all suggestions would be taken into consideration. It doesnt have to be a Kimber but I want to buy QUALITY not features as the features can be added later :)
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 5:10:02 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
I suggest you contact a pistolsmith with experience with raceguns, or STI or SV, and ask them. They have experience building guns that are competive in their intended classes.

ETA: What do you mean by race gun? Usually that means a compensated, optically sighted 9x21, 9x23, 9x25 or .38 super with an extremely high capacity magazine. Kimber .45s are suited to the Limited and Limited 10 divisions of IPSC or USPSA.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 5:33:33 PM EDT by ken_mays]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
What do you mean by race gun? Usually that means a compensated, optically sighted 9x21, 9x23, 9x25 or .38 super with an extremely high capacity magazine. Kimber .45s are suited to the Limited and Limited 10 divisions of IPSC or USPSA.



Yeah. You can compete with a .45 in the Open class but you will be at a disadvantage when it comes to mag capacity, and to some extent, recoil compensation.

Most Open class shooters prefer a 9mm sized cartridge to gain maximum rounds per mag, and they run them hot to make major power factor and to get a good muzzle brake effect.

A common thing around here is to start out with an STI Edge, Executive, etc. to shoot in Limited and then eventually build it up to an Open gun.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:06:43 PM EDT
Well i figured id start at what ever class my stock gun falls into then work my way uo as i add extras

what i mean by race gun,

after a but get somewhere near this
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/ProLim.gif

And eventually get somewhere along these lines
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/images/clark79.jpg
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/Pro_Series_angport_left.jpg
http://www.gunsplanet.com/colt/graphs/roc.jpg


What do you mean by race gun? Usually that means a compensated, optically sighted 9x21, 9x23, 9x25 or .38 super with an extremely high capacity magazine. Kimber .45s are suited to the Limited and Limited 10 divisions of IPSC or USPSA.


Yeah. You can compete with a .45 in the Open class but you will be at a disadvantage when it comes to mag capacity, and to some extent, recoil compensation.

Most Open class shooters prefer a 9mm sized cartridge to gain maximum rounds per mag, and they run them hot to make major power factor and to get a good muzzle brake effect.

A common thing around here is to start out with an STI Edge, Executive, etc. to shoot in Limited and then eventually build it up to an Open gun.



Hmm maybe i need to check into the competition rules and maybe go see a few in person first. The few ive seen on tv and in magazines everyone is shooting a 1911 base. Now im a bit confused
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:24:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 6:31:29 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
Yes, I highly recommend that you: (1) read the rules so you understand what equipment can be used in which division, and (2) try a few matches with whatever gun you already have before you drop $1K+ on a gun that may not suit your preferences.

What guns do you have already ? Production division is purpose made for plain vanilla double-action 9mm carry guns (e.g. Glocks) that cost less than $500. There is also a new single-stack 1911 division for traditional 1911 stock .45s (like the Kimbers you mentioned, in the $1K range). If you want a competitive Limited gun, then you need to look at a double-stack 1911 such as STI/SVI or a ParaOrdnance in 40S&W (will cost you around $1500 just for the gun). An Open "racegun", in 38Super or similar, will run you in the $2-4k range.

Remember, in addition to a pistol, you will want to buy a QUALITY belt, holster, mag pouches and spare mags. If you are going to compete seriously, you will also want to get a progressive reloader (factory ammo will soon prove cost prohibitive). All of this should be factored into your budget.

Lastly, and most importantly, I would highly recommend AGAINST incremental upgrading of a single-stack... no matter how much you spend on it, it will never be competitive in Open division - period !
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:51:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:04:56 AM EDT
Do not buy a 45 for USPSA or IPSC shooting, unless all you want to shoot is ltd-10 or this new waste of a divison single stack.

If you goal is to go into open buy a 38 super or have smith build you a 9mm that can take the "HOT" 9mm loads needed to make major.

If scopes on pstols are not your thing buy a 40 cal edge, or have a smith buld you one.

save your pennies and have a gun built on a sti frame. I tried that cheap route ended up costing me more money in wasted matche fees and smith work than the gun was worth.

if you all ready have a single stack 1911 in 45 get some 10 round mags (wilson or chip MC) and goto a match. you will need at least 5 magazines one in gun 4 on belt for ltd 10.

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:04:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The most expensive possible way to get into this is to buy a quality gun and throw all the pieces away and buy replacement pieces, and having custom work done a bit at a time. Every time you ship a handgun off to a gunsmith it will cost you $50 in overnight shipping charges. Once you join USPSA you will have access to thier members area for sale board, buy someone's used race gun that is moving up into the next level of build.

Buy a std. gun and shoot the limited class, then if you like the hobby pony up and get a custom built if that is where your interests lie.

Buying the same gun Robbie shoots is not going to make you shoot like Robbie.



This is right on the mark. Start saving your money or buy something decent and finance it or whatever. Don't waste your time with getting something you'll have to gut to get where you want.

What kind of experience level do you have? Are you familiar with USPSA at all? If not, go to a couple local matches and talk to the guys there. See if they have a favorite local 'smith. See if any of them have a pistol for sale. Also, you don't need to run out and buy a $2,000 blaster to get started. Go to a few matches with your Glock 17 or whatever until you get a feel for things and know USPSA is something you'd like to do.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:20:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
Well i figured id start at what ever class my stock gun falls into then work my way uo as i add extras

what i mean by race gun,

after a but get somewhere near this
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/ProLim.gif

And eventually get somewhere along these lines
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/images/clark79.jpg
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/Pro_Series_angport_left.jpg
http://www.gunsplanet.com/colt/graphs/roc.jpg


What do you mean by race gun? Usually that means a compensated, optically sighted 9x21, 9x23, 9x25 or .38 super with an extremely high capacity magazine. Kimber .45s are suited to the Limited and Limited 10 divisions of IPSC or USPSA.


Yeah. You can compete with a .45 in the Open class but you will be at a disadvantage when it comes to mag capacity, and to some extent, recoil compensation.

Most Open class shooters prefer a 9mm sized cartridge to gain maximum rounds per mag, and they run them hot to make major power factor and to get a good muzzle brake effect.

A common thing around here is to start out with an STI Edge, Executive, etc. to shoot in Limited and then eventually build it up to an Open gun.



Hmm maybe i need to check into the competition rules and maybe go see a few in person first. The few ive seen on tv and in magazines everyone is shooting a 1911 base. Now im a bit confused




Welcome to the sport!

Race gun? - a single stack .45 ACP 5" IS a race gun in the new Single Stack division and its a great way to start. You will NOT be competing against high dollar, fire-belching .38 Super or 9Major Open guns. NO - you only compete with other folks shooting the same gun as you.

Another race gun? Glock 17 or a CZ 75. Own a Sig 226 or a Beretta 92? - then you own a race gun & a very good one at that.

The best source of info on USPSA/IPSC and other competition shooting is found at the following website:

www.brianenos.com

I would suggest NOT starting out in a class like Limited or Open - they are expensive and getting the guns to run 100% is tricky; reloading is usually necessary to.

But in 1911 Single stack and Production? Heck, just show up w/ a stock gun and factory ammo & you will be competitive (well - as long as you can shoot fast & accurate).

One more point: Are you good enough? A: hell yes!! When did you ever avoid the bowling alley because you thought "I'm not good enough" - or you were scared of the competition at an after-work soft ball game?

USPSA/IPSC is a lot like Golf with firearms (and torso-shaped targets), Do NOT be intimidated into staying at home due to perceived weakness in equipment or ego. Just show up, be safe & shoot.

D.C. Johnson
www.shootersparadise.com
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:37:08 PM EDT
D.C.'s got it.

I started with a bare bones Mil Spec 1911. Won a couple of matches, saved some money and bam, got it built into now my carry gun/IDPA/L-10 gun. Did a little better, practiced more, saved more money and bought my first hi-cap, an Entreprise Arms in .40. That was a sweet pistol (that I never should have sold).

I sold it when I switched to Open Division where I happily run this:



Rusty Kidd 5" Viper in .38 Super. Thank goodness for sponsors, but the money that I did have to pay for this was well worth it.

After a couple of years of shooting Open and doing pretty well at it, I wanted to play in Limited and picked up:



Brazos Custom Pro Series Limited in .40 S&W. Again, thank goodness for sponsors. I really wish I had a picture of the other side, but my father took them for me, since I'm in Korea (3 more months to go and back to the real Army!!!).

USPSA/IPSC is what you put into it and most of all what you want to get out of it. If you want to compete hard and travel all over your state, area, region, the country or the world, we can accomodate. If you want to hang out with the fellas and shoot, we can handle that happily too. The big thing is DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED OR INTIMIDATED by shooters that are running the "top fuel dragsters" of pistols (Open Division) with compensated, laser optics and 29 round magazines against your box stock 1911. I've been there. Heck, when my first 1911 was getting worked on, I shot a Taurus PT100, fixed sights against a Grandmaster Open shooter in a man-on-man shoot-off. Result? I got the crap kicked out of me, but it was still fun.

Cruise around BrianEnos.com and you will learn everything you could ever want to know.

Good luck!!!

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
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