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Posted: 2/27/2006 12:27:58 PM EDT
Does anyone shoot wolf .45 ammo out of their 1911 pistols? Wondering if the coating on the rounds hurts the gun in any ways?

thanks
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:37:55 PM EDT
Sure not something I would do or recommend. Charles the Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:02:43 PM EDT
I did. 50 rounds of it so far out of my Springer Operator. I must say, they were fairly accurate rounds.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:36:58 PM EDT
Shot it for a long time in my 1911s. Never had a problem of any kind. JD
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:16:17 PM EDT
almost 500 through a SA loaded and a Kimber TLE

a couple of FTFs in the SA, but other than that, nothing
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:27:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:57:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 5:24:56 PM EDT by 1911builder]
The steel cased ammo, especially in non or minimal taper cases, has proven to be a problem in many of the AR and Rem 700 barrels that I make. I generally use Krieger, Shilen Select Match or a 4160 barrel blank that I drill, ream and rifle. I do cut really tight chambers, generally 0.0005 inches off of a 'GO' gauge. I polish the chambers to either 400 or 600 grit after cutting and then use a cratex cloth for final finish. I have found that use of this ammo has caused many cases to become stuck or seized in the chamber.

Steel cased ammo has caused me so many problems that I offer no warranty if this stuff is used in a barrel that I make. If you use brass cased ammo I offer a very generous warranty on the barrel. If a barrel is in the expensive range and built for both accuracy and long life (very hard steel such as 4150 or 4160) I will never understand why people shoot cheap or junk grade ammo and then complain of accuracy problems.

Just my experience. Charles the Gunsmith.


ETA: I am NOT trying to start a war. I am expressing an opinion and a recommendation based on my experience.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:18:13 PM EDT
Cheap ammo does not neccessarily mean junk ammo. I find that the wolf 45 is some of the more accurate 45 ammo out there, especially when considering how cheap it is. I have not had a single problem shooting Wolf in my 1911.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:06:12 AM EDT
I shoot Wolf in both my Kimbers. It does no harm. It is dirty and it stinks, but a good cleaning will take care of that.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:20:58 AM EDT
?? im pretty sure 1911's were DESIGNED to shoot steel cased ammo, because thats what was used at the time it was inveted ??
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:31:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:09:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
[I had a buddy break his extractor on his Kimber when he used some of my Wolf at a class, but I think that says more about the quality of the extractor than anything else.



Yep, gotta love MIM parts. Might have been luck of the draw, as I had maybe 1,000 rounds (brass case) through the pistol before the extractor rim broke within the second mag of Wolf.

Pistol now has a Wilson Bullet Proof extractor installed.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:56:39 AM EDT
In the past year I have put over 5000 rounds of Wolf through my SA and S&W 1911s without any problems or even a FTF (granted, the latter is equally respecting good care and maintenance). Over 10,000 if you add in the ARs (45 and 223). Have heard the tales of woe and fret from some of the usual suspects, but if you have a decent firearm, then steel cased ammo shouldn't make any difference. If it's so "delicate" that this needs to be a consideration, I wouldn't depend/defend my life with it. As far as ammo goes, I just have two (granted, expense raising and not widely held) personal rules. 1-I no longer shoot, or allow to be shot through my firearms, reloads except those I make (learned that lesson), including commercial ones (I miss that rifle), and 2-I only shoot jacketed rounds (that one I really can't explain in a couple of sentences).

I've had more problems from some other lower priced/"everybody uses it" ammo (read: S&B). If you've swapped out the MIM stuff (at least the extractor) or have the parts ready to swap in (hey, you have to break it down to clean it anyways) have at it. I will also agree that Wolf definitely does seem to have its own odor, but as for dirty...a lot of other stuff at the rage pro shop seems a lot more dirty, so its not the worst offender. Besides...don't we all just really enjoy that Hoppes smell filling our home...I know my wife doeshave
Oh well...file under for what its worth.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:58:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By legonas:
?? im pretty sure 1911's were DESIGNED to shoot steel cased ammo, because thats what was used at the time it was inveted ??



They used steel 45acp cases in WWII

Charles is probably making tighter chambered guns than a generic military style 1911, which might be why he's had problems with Wolf.

I had a buddy break his extractor on his Kimber when he used some of my Wolf at a class, but I think that says more about the quality of the extractor than anything else.



The WWII steel cased stuff was known to break extractors then too. They made the stuff but that does not mean they used it in automatics. They also tried steel .30-06 in an attempt to save brass. I have an example made in 1943. All the steel .45 I have seen is 1943. Anyone seen cases with 1944 or 1945 headstamps?


It was common knowledge that steel cased ammo broke 1911 extractors, that is why it was so cheap at gunshows ($4 a box) in the 1980's. I shot all the steel stuff in my 1917 S&W, I suspect that is what happened during WWII. By the way, the steel cases make great dummy rounds.

No wolfie for me, I don't own an AK.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:12:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:55:55 AM EDT
Do you buy a Ferrari only to put regular unleaded in it or Wal-mart special tires on it? A higher performance gun requires higher performance accesories. Just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:34:43 PM EDT
i shot 2k rounds of it before i started reloading. it is very accurate but smokey indoors. you will also be covered with powder, looks like pollen on your arm. the old lacquer coating did leave a red gumlike residue. a wilson chamber tool is necessary. the new polymer coating is supposedly better, but i have not used it.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:36:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911builder:
The steel cased ammo, especially in non or minimal taper cases, has proven to be a problem in many of the AR and Rem 700 barrels that I make. I generally use Krieger, Shilen Select Match or a 4160 barrel blank that I drill, ream and rifle. I do cut really tight chambers, generally 0.0005 inches off of a 'GO' gauge. I polish the chambers to either 400 or 600 grit after cutting and then use a cratex cloth for final finish. I have found that use of this ammo has caused many cases to become stuck or seized in the chamber.

Steel cased ammo has caused me so many problems that I offer no warranty if this stuff is used in a barrel that I make. If you use brass cased ammo I offer a very generous warranty on the barrel. If a barrel is in the expensive range and built for both accuracy and long life (very hard steel such as 4150 or 4160) I will never understand why people shoot cheap or junk grade ammo and then complain of accuracy problems.

Just my experience. Charles the Gunsmith.


ETA: I am NOT trying to start a war. I am expressing an opinion and a recommendation based on my experience.



Dont confuse everyone with the facts. Dont you know it's fashionable to buy a quality firearm and then run cheap, sub standard, steel case, non SAAMI spec, dirty, ammo through it? C'mon, get with the times !
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:39:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:48:39 PM EDT
people who shoot high quality expensive ammo exclusivly through their firearms fall into one of two catergories:

1. they are rich and can afford thousands of dollars of the latest greatest tactical ammo. GOOD FOR YOU! hard work pays off!


2. they dont shoot enough. if you shoot as much as i do, you would be broke. YOU NEED MORE PRACTICE!

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:56:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Spartan24:
Do you buy a Ferrari only to put regular unleaded in it or Wal-mart special tires on it? A higher performance gun requires higher performance accesories. Just my $0.02.



So what group sizes have you gotten with the various high quality ammo v. generic fmj?

For regular classwork and and idpa type shooting I could find no difference. Did you, or are you referring to benchrest shooting or something like that?



I have some special reloads that I use to test fire and proof all of my work. With these loads I test fire for group size at 50 feet. The groups this ammo shoot have to be literally 1 ragged hole in the target, shooting off hand with no support for a minimum of 50 rounds. The hole size will generally average 2.5 inches or less.

If the group size is any larger or there are ANY flyers I have failed and I start over on the gun. The gun MUST shoot better than the operator without using any type of rest. This is a standard I set both for myself and for my work. There are ARFCOM members I have worked for who have seen this shooting and have guns that will shoot this accurately. I really like the Ferrari/Wal Mart analogy. I may plagiarize it in the future.

Charles.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:29:57 PM EDT
No.
I don't shoot Wolf in any gun I own, but that's just me.
I'm not rich but I will spend a little extra for good ammo.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:52:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:21:47 PM EDT
Aimless -

I also test the gun(s) with regular 230 grain Winchester FMJ's. The point of this is to show that the gun is capable of accuracy that the shooter can achieve if they do their part. Sorry I did not communicate clearly on that point.

If the shooter has a special ammo request I will also do that carry load that they may prefer. This is strictly custom gunsmithing. No 2 guns and no 2 shooters have the same requirements although there are often common elements.

Charles.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:24:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:26:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 11:28:23 PM EDT by Spartan24]
Aimless,
When I shoot IDPA and plink I use S&B 230 grain FMJs. I find this ammo to be satisafctory. It is brass cased and not so dirty. But I am just a novice/amatuer shooter, not a pro by any means. However, I tried Wolf in my Kimber and it rejected it. It wouldn't feed or shoot worth a darn. Now if I were really a serious shooter, you better bet I would be buying Fiochi, Hornady, or better yet, loading my own for consistency and accuracy. My personal experience is that MY Kimber dislikes Wolf. Besides, brass cased S&B is only $0.50 more for a box of 50. Completely worth it in my opinion. I really distrust steel cased ammo in my western designed guns.

1911builder,
Go ahead and use the line, because it's true. I see it everyday.

ETA: Spelling errors.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:28:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Rockdoc:


No wolfie for me, I don't own an AK.




I did not buy wolf when I first came to this site because of posts like that. I now have 4+ years of shooting many thousands of rounds of wolf through many different kinds of firearms, several different Glocks, many different AR15s, a Beretta 92 in addition to AKs. No broken extractors, no gummed up chambers, none of the internet horrors came true after I shot a mountain of the stuff.



I have tried the .223 wolf in the AR as an experiment and it runs fine in a Colt, I know the wolf stuff works in many guns.

I have seen it fail in training classes where ARs are very hot, something is going wrong whether it is gumming it up or messing with the extraction.

I just can't see tempting fate using it in autoloaders.
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